Shame !

#1 Sep 16th, 2009, 18:28
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#1
Just saw a very disturbing report on Times Now about British women living in Ahmadabad, kaya enrich, who was molested. She went to court and it was an even worse experience for her than actual molestation. All the people were laughing at her, as she could not understand what was being asked. Even the accused was making fun of her plight. The worst part was that she was asked questions which were absolutely demeaning and irrelevant like do you bath or not, smoke etc. Waiting for the full news report and will put the link. I wonder what the public prosecutor and the judge were doing.
If anyone has any such experience to share, it may help someone in future who goes through the same experience, especially how to proceed and not get perturbed by the humiliation that one may face, as the story clearly shows that it does not end with molestation, it starts from there.
This is the story that many women, both Indian as well as foreigner have to face. The Indian laws are very strong on crimes against women but still such things happen in court...shame!!
http://www.timesnow.tv/Questions-wer...ow/4327453.cms
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#2 Sep 16th, 2009, 19:19
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#2
It's a sad indictment on the Gujarati justice system, when the court, including the accused, laugh and humiliate the victim. No woman should be treated like this. In fact, nobody, man woman or child...
#3 Sep 16th, 2009, 20:06
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It is not long since British lawyers, defending in a rape case, would seek to destroy the character of the victim, the implication being that, hey, she consents with whoever, so there must have been consent here, thus no rape. Even without this, having to relive events, publicly, and with cross-examination, is bad enough. One reason for the low successful prosecution rates of rape worldwide. India is probably just a little way behind on this. The case got to court; many probably just get laughed out of the police station.

EDIT: My political remark has been removed --- nothing to do with the core issue.
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Last edited by Nick-H; Sep 16th, 2009 at 21:22..
#4 Sep 16th, 2009, 20:09
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#4
The readers' comments is as revealing as anything:

(Quote) " You want to defame Gujarat. So much of news time wasted just because she is a foreigner?? just because this has happened in Gujarat in Modi's land?? There are thousands of incidents that happen in other cities has anyone bothered to cover such news?? God knows what the girl was upto its easy for these women to act clean."


Last edited by *jyoti*; Sep 16th, 2009 at 20:27.. Reason: add emphasis.
#5 Sep 16th, 2009, 20:46
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My confusions to the responses aside, I am sure it has nothing to do with Gujarat or foreign women. If an Indian had voiced the discomfort openly, it would have been aired too. Moreover, if this news feed can give voice to so many exploited women who have neither money nor courage to face the court, what is wrong? Ultimately it will compel everyone involved in such cases to be that much more compassionate to the victim.
#6 Sep 16th, 2009, 20:57
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#6
Quote:
Originally Posted by jituyadav View Post Just saw a very disturbing report on Times Now about British women living in Ahmadabad, kaya enrich, who was molested. She went to court and it was an even worse experience for her than actual molestation. All the people were laughing at her, as she could not understand what was being asked. Even the accused was making fun of her plight. The worst part was that she was asked questions which were absolutely demeaning and irrelevant like do you bath or not, smoke etc. Waiting for the full news report and will put the link. I wonder what the public prosecutor and the judge were doing.
If anyone has any such experience to share, it may help someone in future who goes through the same experience, especially how to proceed and not get perturbed by the humiliation that one may face, as the story clearly shows that it does not end with molestation, it starts from there.
This is the story that many women, both Indian as well as foreigner have to face. The Indian laws are very strong on crimes against women but still such things happen in court...shame!!
http://www.timesnow.tv/Questions-wer...ow/4327453.cms
a huge shame! bad enough if it were to happen to an indian woman. but for such a thing to happen to a foreign woman (with the obvious added disadvantage of not knowing the language, etc), is unforgivable. whatever happened to the indian belief that a 'guest is akin to god'?
#7 Sep 16th, 2009, 21:10
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The incident if correctly reported, does not reflect well on the court. It is the duty of the judge to ensure that the victim is not harassed or subject to unneccessary and irrelevant questioning by the opponent or his counsel. If the report is true, then the magistrate has abjectly failed, and ought to be pulled up by a superior court.

The party or his/her counsel [in the victims case - the PP] has the right to object to demeaning, irrelevant and any other type of questioning that is done merely for harassment. The court is obliged to record the objection of the party, and to either permit or disallow the question.

The less said about the acumen of public prosecutors, whether in Gujarat or in any other state, the better. Especially in the lower courts. Why do you think the rate of conviction in criminal proceedings is abysmally low?

These incidents may perhaps occur more often in mofussil areas. It is shocking that such a thing happened in a metropolitan city like Ahmedabad - again assuming the news reports to be accurate, very often they are not.

Let us see what happens now, with all the media publicity.
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#8 Sep 16th, 2009, 22:26
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Well everyone else was having fun at the poor woman's expense, but what was her Lawyer doing while her client was being humiliated? she should have intervened and insisted that either the questions be asked in a language the Woman knew or that she be provided a translator. How could the lawyer let the proceedings go on !!
the judge's conduct is also not above reproach. What a shame indeed.
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#9 Sep 16th, 2009, 22:41
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#9
Quote:
Originally Posted by *jyoti* View Post The readers' comments is as revealing as anything:

(Quote) " You want to defame Gujarat. So much of news time wasted just because she is a foreigner?? just because this has happened in Gujarat in Modi's land?? There are thousands of incidents that happen in other cities has anyone bothered to cover such news?? God knows what the girl was upto its easy for these women to act clean."


You looking for sense in an Indian website's readers' responses column? obviously, you're new to this.
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#10 Sep 16th, 2009, 22:55
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#10
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Originally Posted by jituyadav View Post She went to court and it was an even worse experience for her than actual molestation....
like that's anything unusual for a woman to experience anywhere in the world whether she is white, brown, black, or yellow?

read this and weep....
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/09/16/jones-sue-kbr/
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#11 Sep 16th, 2009, 23:31
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#11
Now the media is reporting that the Bar Association of India has taken a stand against the erring defense lawyer and suggested that he may lose his license. Whether the action will be actually carried out will likely not be known/reported because any such result will follow long after the story is forgotten.

Additionally, I wonder what steps, if any, will be taken against the magistrate who clearly could have sustained the objections against the line of questioning as irrelevant.
#12 Sep 16th, 2009, 23:38
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#12
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Originally Posted by ronsaik View Post You looking for sense in an Indian website's readers' responses column? obviously, you're new to this.
What... you mean they are as bad as the ones in UK?

I suspect they are much the same the world over
#13 Sep 17th, 2009, 09:35
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#13
As per some reports on the tv channels, the public prosecutor was absent during this hearing.

So, the victim was unrepresented leading to the harrassment. I am not familiar with legal proceedings, but this is quite shocking even to my untrained ears.

But on the other hand, this kind of questioning seems to be quite the norm in rape cases. I don't think Gujarat courts are any different or worse so there is no case for Gujarat bashing here.
#14 Sep 17th, 2009, 10:04
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#14
Well, I know of someone very close to me who had to deal with Indian justice system - it was about a guy who was terrorizing/bullying the victim so that the victim would give their property to the accused. The accused had some political contacts.
The case took 2 years (many court visits, police station visits, govt bureaucracy), but the final decision was in the favor of the victim, but I can tell you - it took enormous amount of courage and patience from victim (including facing 10 muscle men, hired by the accused to terrorize her, at her house) - also she gave a very convincing concluding argument (when each side is allowed to make their case one final time before judgement - her lawyer said she should give the conclusion herself).
Coincidentally, the case was in Ahmedabad, gujarat (but I dont think it would have been much different elsewhere).

You have to find courage so deep, you didnt know it existed !!
#15 Sep 17th, 2009, 10:06
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#15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick-H View Post What... you mean they are as bad as the ones in UK?

I suspect they are much the same the world over
Yeah true dat...


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