"Ayurveda: Mother of All Medicines"

#1 Aug 16th, 2012, 08:35
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movie on ayurveda

"In this documentary you are invited into the life and work of the South Indian Ayurveda physician Dr. V.P. Mohana Kumari. The introduction explains the background and philosophy of Ayurveda. Astasthana Pareeksha shows you the procedure of an Ayurveda consult. Preventive and healing is the well known Pancha Karma course. This treatment is shown in close detail through the eyes of a client, with the unique approach to treat mental diseases through an ancient spiritual color therapy, 'Kalam Ezhutu', at the end."
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#2 Aug 16th, 2012, 11:43
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An interesting area. I don't normally take the touchie feelie stuff too seriously. But, I had a friend who sufferred paralysis for 8 years without any relief from treatments only to have it cured by an Ayurvedic practitioner. Its hard to be completely skeptical in that circumstance.

Now it makes me think I should have checked out a dude who accosted me in the street at Secunderabad and said he knew how to cure my disability..
#3 Aug 16th, 2012, 16:17
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Quote:
I don't normally take the touchie feelie stuff too seriously.
What, like surgery, you mean?

Ayurveda is not really touchy-feely, even though massage is the aspect best known to the world. I'm sure you are aware that there is as much chemistry in ayurveda as there is in allopathy.

I'd say there's a difference between a therapy beings physically hands-on and being touchy-feely. There are massage systems so violent that one wonders how the recipient can stand to be on the receiving end: I'd rate ayurvedic massage as mild-wrestling-match! The experience of others, though, may vary hugely, as any good masseur will adjust to the patient and their needs
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#4 Aug 16th, 2012, 19:31
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Originally Posted by edwardseco View Post had a friend who sufferred paralysis for 8 years without any relief from treatments only to have it cured by an Ayurvedic practitioner.
had daily medical ayurvedic treatments (not just massage) for a back issue I had for 5 years when I was in Kerala this year. during the treatments it was the first time in 5 years that I woke up without pain. that, combined with my own yoga therapy practice, has kept me pain free.

edwardseco, by touchy-feely do you mean more like woo-woo (very technical word) new agey stuff?
#5 Aug 20th, 2012, 12:43
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Sorry to read about your pain. But: I am not surprised to read that you have/had a chronic back-ache. So far every yoga-teacher I know has had that. Or would you say you had it before you started doing yoga asanas?
#6 Aug 20th, 2012, 14:08
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Ayurveda.....

Though we cannot say that it is the mother of all medicines, it is much more systematic and holistic than other systems. The treatment is intended for the patient and not for the disease only.
Another thing which is astonishing is that the ancient 'Maharshis' had studied so many plants and minerals and found out the medicinal values of these and used these for treatment and there are descriptions of even surgery in "Charaka Samhita". I had some posts about "Hortus Malabaricus" in another thread. While translating this work from Latin to English the very well known botanist Dr.K.S.Manilal had studied many of the plants dealt in this and he was telling about the wonderful efficacy of these medicinal plants. More than 900 plants are studied in this voluminous work. He was wondering how so many plants could be documented and studied at that time when no laboratory facilities were unknown. Was it intuition or some other extra sensory perception we can only wonder.
#7 Aug 20th, 2012, 23:57
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Originally Posted by atala View Post Sorry to read about your pain. But: I am not surprised to read that you have/had a chronic back-ache. So far every yoga-teacher I know has had that. Or would you say you had it before you started doing yoga asanas?

My lower back pain stemmed from my being uber-flexible all my life in my lumbar spine and hips. I am the person in yoga classes whom teachers love to point out (which I hate) for being Miss Gumby, Miss Bendy, or Crazy Hips (as one of my teachers calls me.) People think being hyper-flexible is something great when actually it's not but that is the way yoga is presented. Without strengthening, it is easy for uber-flexible people like me to develop injuries. BTW, I have been teaching 10+ years, and a practitioner longer than that.

The pain is near the area of T12-L1 vertebra which is the point of my backbends. With my type of body my back does not need to become more flexible, it needs strengthening, which is what I do in my yoga therapy practice.

That being said, yoga is not one size fits all and my yoga therapy for MY back may not be suitable for someone else's back.

My yoga training is in the Krishnamacharya tradition and I have just started yoga therapy training with Dr. Ganesh Mohan, whose father studied with Krishnamacharya. Ganesh is both an allopathic dr. and an ayurvedic dr. so I have the best of both in my training... It was Ganesh who recommended the ayurvedic oil treatments I received in Kerala and he was right-on.

As for what you say about yoga teachers and injuries, would have to agree. one of my teachers was a long time Iyengar yoga practitioner and injured her back. She healed it with yin yoga, which is one style that I teach. in fact, it was a former Iyengar yoga teacher who told me I needed to strengthen my hips and lower back when she saw how flexible I am. in my 15+ years of yoga, my practice has certainly changed.
#8 Aug 21st, 2012, 01:23
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Sama, I'd like to introduce you to a Swiss technique of body-development that is also used by yoga practitioners to better assimilate the energies and strains caused by their asanas. It is called with the german word Spiraldynamik and is based on a new understanding of how the anatomy of the human body is working in spiral ways.

Here is a text in English telling you something about it:

Quote:
SpiraldynamikŪ
Maike is the first therapist to bring SpiraldynamikŪ to Australia. SpiraldynamikŪ is a three dimensional movement concept, which aims to achieve anatomically healthy movement. It was developed by the Swiss doctor Christian Larsen and the French physiotherapist Yolante Deswarte. Christian Larsen himself describes it as "a three dimensional user's manual for the human body". With the physiotherapist Christian Heel he opened the" Institut fur Spiraldynamik" in Zurich/ Switzerland. (links) There Spiraldynamik is now part of the foundation for anatomy studies in physiotherapy and medicine. It is useful in therapy, for rehabilitation of all orthopedic conditions, in training and tuition - dance, athletics, art, yoga and music.

In music medicine this concept is extremely useful to prevent future problems and to treat already existing ones. Understanding anatomy and the knowledge how to change ones habits and patterns for already existing or future problems, is the key for a musician not to become dependent on therapists.
Important is also this part, since the concept of spiral dynamics is used after Ken Wilber in the English language for different areas of understanding.

Quote:
SpiraldynamikŪ = "Spiral dynamics"?
Eventhough the German term "Spiraldynamik" would be translated as "spiral dynamics" in English, we do however not use this term. Spiral dynamics is already in use for a psychological system which has no relationship to SpiraldynamikŪ, but because the German term has been in use in Europe for over 20 years we decided to use this untranslated for international recognizability.
http://www.maikebrill.com.au/body_wo...#spiraldynamik

Here is an English summary of a text that Dr Larsen published in German

Quote:
Summary
The spine - preventive measures through 3D movement quality
Four apparently very different situations, namely, sport, daily life, yoga, and therapy van all be seen from one and the same anatomic point of view. The global 3D (three-dimensional) torsion of the spinal column according to the spiral dynamic concepts is introduced here by means of four examples:
1. left-righ t alternating torsion of the trunk during running.
2. stair climbing,
3. spiral twists in yoga and
4. therapy for a triple-curved thoracic torsional scoliosis.
Given the contemporary anatomical-functional view of the spine, it seems most appropriate to propagate a three-dimensional mobility and strength-training pro gram. Three-dimensional (3D) anatomy constitutes a reliable basis for movement therapy and preventive exercises. The conclusive point for physiotherapy is that the 3D movement concept of locomotion can be useful in both prevention and treatment, in general as well as in specific situations.
Key words: spiral dynamic - spinal column - 3D anatomy -preventive physiotherapy - yoga -scoliosis treatment
http://www.movenet24.com/spiraldynamik/pdf/ksis237.pdf
#9 Aug 21st, 2012, 01:30
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BTW, I also have minor scoliosis (as most people actually do) at that point of T12-L1 -- the pain is/was directly adjacent to that area.

all that being said, my pain/spine never stopped me from practicing or teaching or actually doing anything in daily life. I'm not the type of person who lets stuff like that bother me as I developed arthritis in my 30s (but I've always moved, danced, etc.) I will say that at the time the pain manifested itself (quite suddenly as I woke up one day!), it was a month after I received a huge emotional trauma. Since trauma is held physically in the body, I do not discount that also had something to do with it.

I will check out these links!
#10 Aug 22nd, 2012, 12:10
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Originally Posted by atala View Post Sama,

http://www.maikebrill.com.au/body_wo...#spiraldynamik
Here is an English summary of a text that Dr Larsen published in German
The link and content is in German- Is there an English version, I wonder.
Sama
Quote:
BTW, I also have minor scoliosis (as most people actually do) at that point of T12-L1 -- the pain is/was directly adjacent to that area.
Ayurveda has got very effective treatment programmes for all types of rheumatic ailments.Actually Panchakarma and some other methods are said to rejuvenate the body.
Here also we have a problem.The Ayurvedic system and the treatments have not been scientifically analyzed and studied in the modern scientific perspective, though the system deserve that very much. I wonder why it is not being done. Even the medicinal plants used are not being properly analyzed and studied to find out the exact content which is effective in treatment. The modern medical system being controlled by mult-icrore manufacturers, they are only after profit making researches most of the time. I understand that in china, they have made studies of all their old systems of treatments including acupuncture.
#11 Aug 22nd, 2012, 13:27
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Originally Posted by narayanvee View Post The Ayurvedic system and the treatments have not been scientifically analyzed and studied in the modern scientific perspective, though the system deserve that very much. I wonder why it is not being done. Even the medicinal plants used are not being properly analyzed and studied to find out the exact content which is effective in treatment.
Plants are very complex substances with zillions of bits and pieces interacting in yet unknown ways. If it comes to such detailed studies, you'd be surprised to know how little is understood by science about how life works. Digitalizaton of research may produce better results, because complexity is better representable with that means, but it still just remains approximative with many facets remaining unknown.

As you know, everything costs money. Who is going to pay for all those scientists who should analyse and research all the parts and their chemical and pharmaceutical properties of just some plants (most remedies are compositions of many plants and minerals)? There are a good number of companies in India (and abroad) which do that work, and hope to get a result that pays for their investment. The thing is that scientific research into such natural therapies may actually destroy the latter. It is a matter of increased credibility, pride and prestige, which so called science should bring, and many (incl Ayurvedic docs) hope that their own trade would gain by that.

It's a business everywhere, be it in science, research, or in therapy.
#12 Aug 22nd, 2012, 18:29
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Ayurveda

Quote:
Originally Posted by atala View Post Plants are very complex substances with zillions of bits and pieces interacting in yet unknown ways. .........

As you know, everything costs money. Who is going to pay ......... is a matter of increased credibility, pride and prestige, which so called science should bring, and many (incl Ayurvedic docs) hope that their own trade would gain by that.

It's a business everywhere, be it in science, research, or in therapy.

Very true. Is there any hope of change any where? Will a slow evolutionary process change the attitude? I hope it shall/has to happen before it is too late- the next stage of evolution- evolution of the mind.
#13 Aug 22nd, 2012, 20:05
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all I know is that oil treatments worked. I don't need to know how. My teacher told us about when he was training the ayurvedic drs. healed a person's broken arm with oils and just wrapping it tightly in gauze, using the oil and wrapping it up daily. the bone healed weeks faster than if it would have been put in a cast. there are many oils for all different types of afflictions. when you know that anything and everything we put on the skin, whether good or bad, is absorbed into the body, ayurvedic oil treatments just make sense (to me!)
Last edited by Sama; Aug 23rd, 2012 at 02:48..
#14 Aug 23rd, 2012, 13:32
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Originally Posted by Sama View Post all I know is that oil treatments worked.
Teh result hoped for is really what counts for any patient. The problem is that you cannot know in advance whether a therapy is helpful or not, and people hope that by scientific studies more reliable standards could be established. Standardization however has the effect of reducing the scope of variations in products or services; on the cognitive level it eliminates intuition and enforces rationality.

An example of this is the standardization of acupuncture in Chinese medicine. Originally Chinese medicine was a Taoist knowledge system which included lots of intuitive know-how and procedures. The standardization process has eliminated a lot of that; the rationalization has led to certain gains, like increased applicability, easier propagation of techniques, clearer therapy protocols. But the context (let me call it even the "spiritual" context) has been overshadowed to a large extent. I am sure you still find practitioners who will be able to integrate some of it into their standardized practice, but...

That is how scientific exploration and its results can destroy a complex knowledge system.

Similar processes happen with Ayurveda and Siddha in India (and actually also with all the other practices including yoga and all kinds of shastra-based traditions.)
#15 Aug 23rd, 2012, 15:02
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