Why do foreigners do this?

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#31 Sep 26th, 2013, 17:53
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#31
travelmendak, please stop crying ... you know very well, all are not alike. The sky didn't fall if the people (Indian or foreigner) didn't buy your offer!

It happens...

We always leave home only after doing all the researches and calculations.

We do the things which we can afford and we never feel guilty if unable to do any of them...

We never depend on others to fulfill our wish(es)!

Hope, you are getting my points...

Cheers!
#32 Sep 26th, 2013, 19:02
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#32
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Originally Posted by NomadicBoo View Post HH you're way of the mark bringing race in to, it has absolutely nothing to do with it.
You are right this is not a case of racism and I didn't say that this particular case has anything to do with racial discrimination ! However this is case of discrimination based on nationality and it doesn't make a difference whether it happens in your country or in the country of the one subjected to it, and regardless of the reasons!

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What we are talking about is pure logic. 90% of Indians that approach a foreigner in India are looking to sell you something, so please tell me how does a foreigner tell the difference?
You are right it is hard for a foreigner to tell the difference !

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I consider every person on the planet to be equal but does that mean my equal doesn't want to sell me something?
No it does not mean that you equal doesn't want to sell you something
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Again, I reiterate it has nothing at all to do with race.
Again I agree with that it has nothing to do with race and that it is a case of national origin dicrimination!
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If I got bit by 10 dogs and and an 11th walked up to me in the street would I pet it? Of course not! Why? Logic!
Now here is something we should consider in greater detail:
( Are you calling Indians dogs! And then you say we are your equal ! Anyway we'll let that rest)
OK, you got bit by 10 (what you thought were) dogs, after the 3rd bite you should have learnt not to put you hands into the mouths of dogs ! And yet you continued to do so until the 11th dog, now who is to blame for that!

Well, the problem here is not that you didn't want to pet the 11th dog , but that the 11th wasn't a dog it was a cow. And because you were bitten by what you thought were dogs, you ran for your life seeing a passive, domicile, harmless cow! I say "what you thought were dogs" because what bit you weren't dogs but wolves ! So wolves bit you, that made you scared of dogs, and you ran for your life seeing a cow, and now you are scared of all four legged animals! Pray tell me sir, where is the logic in that!!!
Last edited by happyhippy; Sep 27th, 2013 at 05:57..
#33 Sep 26th, 2013, 19:20
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#33
Some terrible posts in this thread from the OP and Happyhippy.

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Originally Posted by aarosh View Post I recollect an instance. I was walking towards Gateway of India via SBS road. Near The Church of St. Andrew opp Lions Gate, I saw a couple of westerners looking a map in their hand and the signs on the road. After contemplating for some time I approached them and asked if I could help them. They said pointing at the map that they wanted to go to Kala Ghoda (Rhythm House). I gave them the direction and then walked away towards Gateway of India. After taking a few steps I again looked back and saw them standing over there looking at the map and the signs on the road again.
When I'm at home in Dublin I make a point of approaching Indian tourists who look a bit lost or have their head in a map in order to help them out since I remember many instances of such kindness during my own travels in India. I would say 90% of the time the Indian tourists will get scared and hurry away from me before I have a chance to help, or else insist that they know exactly where they are, etc. and don't need help, when they clearly do. In such cases, I just shrug and stroll on. It has never occurred to me to post on an internet forum about how my feelings have been hurt and to question the reasons for their indifference. The reasons are obvious and logical.
#34 Sep 26th, 2013, 19:25
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#34
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Originally Posted by Shiver me Timbers View Post It has never occurred to me to post on an internet forum about how my feelings have been hurt and to question the reasons for their indifference. The reasons are obvious and logical.
Just because it never occurred to you Shiver , it does not mean that it shouldn't occur to someone else and that everyone should feel the way you do! The point you are missing is that it is not just about this individual or how foreigners react when when approached by Indians in India! When I've traveled and used restaurants and other place visited mostly used by foreigners in India I've received dirty looks, sometimes even people looking into plate wondering how I can afford the same stuff they are buying etc. And I've never approached anyone for anything and yet I've had innumerable such experiences!
#35 Sep 26th, 2013, 19:36
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#35
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Originally Posted by happyhippy View Post Just because it never occurred to you Shiver , it does not mean that it shouldn't occur to someone else and that everyone should feel the way you do!
Nothing to do with should or shouldn't. Fact is the OP seems a bit of a sensitive soul whose feelings have been hurt due to false expectations on the one hand, and a refusal to empathize with those 'foreigners' he encountered on the other. Therefore the problem is his/hers alone. It's not clear to me exactly why the rest of us should care.

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When I've traveled and used restaurants and other place visited mostly used by foreigners in India I've received dirty looks, sometimes even people looking into plate wondering how I can afford the same stuff they are buying etc. And I've never approached anyone for anything and yet I've had innumerable such experiences!
So go make a thread about it and we can discuss it there. The context of the OP's moan is entirely different.
#36 Sep 26th, 2013, 19:41
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#36
You got it all wrong, travelmendak. It's not just the foreigners who do it. I'm an Indian and I would do the same. Any sensible person won't jump at any offer thrown at him by a stranger anywhere. Just because it all didn't turn out to be in your favour, you don't start whining and judging people. Grow up.
#37 Sep 26th, 2013, 19:52
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#37
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Originally Posted by Shiver me Timbers View Post Therefore the problem is his/hers alone.
There are many who come here with problems that are theirs alone and their are people who care enough to enlighten them!
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Originally Posted by Shiver me Timbers View Post It's not clear to me exactly why the rest of us should care.
Speak for yourself and not for the rest of us,if you don't care that's fine ,there are some of us who do! And they have now explained and made him understand why foreigners do this!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiver me Timbers View Post So go make a thread about it and we can discuss it there. The context of the OP's moan is entirely different.
They context may seem different but the essence is the same i.e. How foreigners view Indians because of their experience pestering hawkers and con-men!
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Some terrible posts in this thread from the OP and Happyhippy
.
Who died and made you the judge of post and of what should be posted where?
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I would say (without passing judgement) that the biggest factor has been the growth in Indian members, whose expectations and ideas surrounding traveling in India are very different to those of the predominantly Western, backpacker type that got this forum going in the first place.
For many foreigners the only problem they have with India and IM is the same : There are Indians in India, and Indians on IM!
#38 Sep 26th, 2013, 19:57
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#38
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Originally Posted by happyhippy View Post .....How foreigners view Indians....
Not all Indians. Just those Indians who give the appearance of wanting to conduct a hard sell.
#39 Sep 26th, 2013, 20:04
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#39
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Originally Posted by happyhippy View Post You are right this is not a case of racism and I didn't say that this particular case has anything to do with racial discrimination ! However this is case of discrimination based on nationality and it doesn't make a difference whether it happens in your country or in the country of the one subjected to it, and regardless of the reasons!
I point you to evidence A below from your original post.

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Originally Posted by happyhippy View Post You assume that all foreigners are: friendly, jovial, logical, objective, open, unbiased, secure , non-racial folks, who see you as an equal human being with similar values
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Originally Posted by happyhippy View Post Now here is something we should consider in greater detail:
( Are you calling Indians dogs! And then you say we are your equal ! Anyway we'll let that rest)
OK, you got bit by 10 (what you thought were) dogs, after the 3rd bite you should have learnt not to put you hands into the mouths of dogs ! And yet you continued to do so until the 11th dog, now who is to blame for that!

Well, the problem here is not that you didn't want to pet the 11th dog , but that the 11th wasn't a dog it was a cow. And because you were bitten by a what you thought were a dogs, you ran for your life seeing a domicile passive harmless cow! I say "what you thought were dogs" because what bit you weren't dogs but wolves ! So wolves bit you, that made you scared of dogs, and you ran for your life seeing a cow, and now you are scared of all four legged animals! Pray tell me sir, where is the logic in that!!!
Incredibly low blow to infer that I was calling Indian dogs. You know full well that this meant to serve as an analogy of logic.

To explain, just in case your accusation was based on ignorance and miss understanding.

A*nal*o*gy - A comparison between two things, typically on the basis of their structure and for the purpose of explanation or clarification.

So, if 10 dogs bite you do you pet the 11th? Of course not. Does it mean the 11th dog will bite? Of course not!

It can be applied to any situation where danger in any form is present and can be applied to Indians, Americans, Mexicans or Europeans. It doesn't infer in any way shape or form that anyone is a dog and most certainly has nothing to do with cows.

NB
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#40 Sep 26th, 2013, 20:06
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#40
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Originally Posted by happyhippy View Post There are many who come here with problems that are theirs alone and their are people who care enough to enlighten them!
Indeed, however the title and tone of the OP points an accusatory finger at the rest of us. Furthermore, despite the perfectly reasonable and logical explanations provided, it seems the penny has yet to drop.

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Speak for yourself and not for the rest of us
That's exactly what I did, i.e. " It's not clear to me exactly why the rest of us should care." But it seems many on here share my sentiments.

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They context may seem different but the essence is the same i.e. How foreigners view Indians because of their experience pestering hawkers and con-men!
This is just one of many reasons given in the thread so far. Note we have also had a few Indian members saying they would have reacted the same way.

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Who died and made you the judge of post and of what should be posted where?
Welcome to the internet happyhippy!

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For many foreigners the only problem they have with India and IM is the same : There are Indians in India, and Indians on IM!
Are you sure you've thought this through?
#41 Sep 26th, 2013, 20:10
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#41
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Originally Posted by Dave W View Post Not all Indians. Just those Indians who give the appearance of wanting to conduct a hard sell.
In fact I would go further and say it's how anyone views anyone who is a stranger.

Case in point, my friend Aditi who I met in Bangalore 6 years ago has become close friends with my wife and I. We visit her in Bangalore and when we are with her and her friends our guard is completely down as we know we are safe with them. It has nothing to do with being Indian.

However, when I am in London in my home town and a stranger approaches I know that they want one of a) to sign me up to a charity I likely don't support b) to sell me some tickets to something I most certainly don't want to go c) they want some money for a train ride home (which normally means beer).

It has absolutely nothing to do with nationality, race, colour, creed or the way people smell. It's a simple human reaction based on self preservation and the same logical process as learning that stoves are hot.

NB
#42 Sep 26th, 2013, 20:29
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#42
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Originally Posted by travelmendak View Post Right Nayan! Only if there had been more people like you( Indians ) in Leh, I would have never walked upto foreigners in the first place.
Its because of skeptic people like YOU that most people have to pay for overpriced cabs, overpriced organised trips etc.

If an Indian cannot trust an Indian or an Indian is afraid of being scammed by a fellow Indian he doesn't deserve to be called an Indian .

We are Indians only because we grew up surviving all those scams and carpets and Rayban sellers and that is why all the others are foreigners.
Now hold on a minute. "Overpriced?" I presume Rs.8000 was for a return trip. So for 500 km, it works out to Rs.16 per km. Being the Himalayas, it must be a low-gear drive all the way and back. And you get a driver for 12 hours driving, plus waiting for you to take pictures, etc. In my opinion, the price is justified.
#43 Sep 26th, 2013, 21:23
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#43
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Originally Posted by NomadicBoo View Post I point you to evidence A below from your original post.
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Originally Posted by happyhippy View Post
You assume that all foreigners are: friendly, jovial, logical, objective, open, unbiased, secure , non-racial folks, who see you as an equal human being with similar values
Does it say anywhere that foreigners are not non racial? Just because the I say that the OP assumes it does not imply that his assumptions about are not true about most foreigners who travel to India! This is just your fallacious interpretation of my statement .Similarly:
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see you as an equal human being with similar values, and they see you as a possible: threat ,a con-man, someone with an hidden agenda ,someone whose association is likely to cause harm or a loss of some kind , as someone with something to sell, inferior, as someone after their money or as someone looking for sex !
When I say foreigners assume Indians be as stated above it does not mean that all of us are as they assume !

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( Are you calling Indians dogs! And then you say we are your equal ! Anyway we'll let that rest)
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Originally Posted by NomadicBoo View Post Incredibly low blow to infer that I was calling Indian dogs. You know full well that this meant to serve as an analogy of logic.
Does your monitor not display the icons, if it does, then do they mean that is accusation of any kind ? Picking irrelevant and petty issues so that one can triumphantly score debating points is quite sad , really! Isn't quite clear hat that the statement was made in jest! And also without considering that you would be ignorant about the current political dialogues in India! MR. Modi was made a similar analogy and was accused of calling Muslims puppies by his opponents !
http://articles.timesofindia.indiati...olitical-storm

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Modi, in the interview said, "Another thing, any person if we are driving a car, we are a driver, and someone else is driving a car and we're sitting behind, even then if a puppy comes under the wheel, will be painful or not? Of course, it is. If I'm a chief minister or not, I'm a human being. If something bad happens anywhere, it is natural to be sad," Modi said.

Therefore the rest of your explanation given below is unnecessary and wasted:
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To explain, just in case your accusation was based on ignorance and miss understanding.

A*nal*o*gy - A comparison between two things, typically on the basis of their structure and for the purpose of explanation or clarification.

So, if 10 dogs bite you do you pet the 11th? Of course not. Does it mean the 11th dog will bite? Of course not!

It can be applied to any situation where danger in any form is present and can be applied to Indians, Americans, Mexicans or Europeans. It doesn't infer in any way shape or form that anyone is a dog and most certainly has nothing to do with cows.
Last edited by happyhippy; Sep 28th, 2013 at 00:03..
#44 Sep 26th, 2013, 21:41
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#44
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Originally Posted by travelmendak View Post Now to increase the headcount we put a notice outside the agency's office. Other than that we started talking to as many foreigners as we could lay our eyes upon; we went to cafes, restaurants, my hotel, other agencies and talked about taxi sharing , how beautiful Moriri is and how cheap it would be.
Your method sounds oh-so-desperate and toutish to me. Humans can sense that a mile away. Btw, why did you only solicit foreigners, are domestic Indian tourists not on? Because of this fact, I'd be suspicious that you'd pre negotiated a price and were going to charge your 'catch' a surcharge to help offset your own personal travel expense.
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#45 Sep 26th, 2013, 21:43
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HH, do you actually have a point?

I have neither the time, patience (typing on a tablet!) nor inclination to go tat for tat on quotes on a game of he said, she said.

Ultimately, you made a number of sweeping statements that foreigners are ultimately untrusting species who percieve themselves to be higher beings and who actively stereotype against Indians.

You can hide behind your modus operandi of 'thats what some may say, some may think' quotation and excellent use of a vast vocabulary but it's quite clear what your opinion actually is.

I think its incredibly insulting, way off point and does a great discredit to those of us who travel many, many miles to embrace the culture of a land most of us fall in love with.

NB
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