North India rudeness

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#91 Dec 13th, 2014, 23:44
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#91
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Originally Posted by pap View Post You have to only check out the auto rickshaw drivers, even Didi doesn't mess with them.
Very true. There are pockets of friendliness in Bengal but overall the culture is often violent and extremely politicized.

Quote:
I think the hand rickshaw pullers are generally all Bihari migrants, so that is probably why they tend to keep a low profile and stay out of trouble.
True. And most taxi drivers as well. Many/most were born here of parents who came to Kolkata for a better livelihood.
#92 Dec 14th, 2014, 00:57
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#92
I lived in Kolkata for three and a half years, and do not agree with nayan and pap. I do not think the culture is more violent (than any other culture).

Over politicization? Yes; but me coming from Kerala, that is like the baseline.
#93 Dec 14th, 2014, 02:10
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#93
Non-locals(specially those who are not fluent in the local language) do not often get the seedier undercurrents. Even if they have lived there for a few years. Unless they are unfortunate and get mixed up in something problematic.

This is true for any city, I think. I am not talking of queue jumping or elbow shoving here.
#94 Dec 17th, 2014, 17:56
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#94
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Originally Posted by nayan View Post Non-locals(specially those who are not fluent in the local language) do not often get the seedier undercurrents. Even if they have lived there for a few years. Unless they are unfortunate and get mixed up in something problematic.

This is true for any city, I think. I am not talking of queue jumping or elbow shoving here.

hmmm.... just as well I am never likely to get fluent in bangla then.

My own perception of Kolkata is that it is less aggressive than other big cities. Maybe a flawed view.
#95 Dec 17th, 2014, 18:01
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#95
May your perception remain so
(It would be unlikely to change unless you are involved in day to day living in the city - public transport, property transactions, police, legal system, protection-syndicates.)
#96 Dec 17th, 2014, 18:10
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#96
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Originally Posted by theyyamdancer View Post My own perception of Kolkata is that it is less aggressive than other big cities.
Agreed
#97 Mar 15th, 2015, 05:36
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#97
True, they will butt in front of you but I have NEVER experience verbal rudeness. They are basically a docile people.
I hope to relocated to northern India on a more permanent basis.

Lone female Canadian traveler.

I have learned to speak Hindi ( and some Punjabi) and have never experienced verbal rudeness from an Indian person. They have tried to butt in front of me in a line-up and I won't let them get away with it! < chuckle>

Lone-female Canadian traveler
Last edited by JuliaF; Mar 15th, 2015 at 15:14.. Reason: merged posts
#98 Mar 15th, 2015, 10:26
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#98
"All humans are created rude, but some humans are more rude than others."

I think the 'rudeness' gets gradually and so very subtly ingrained in us. For most Indians it is not even rudeness at all--it is a way of life. IMHO, an average rural Indian would be surprised and may even be offended if you choose to call it rudeness.

I'd like to share mine and my 4 year old son's perspective. I've always lived in India. Although the kid is only 4, he has been going around with me doing all sorts of day-to-day activities--riding a bike everyday, talking down to rude drivers (all the way to shouting to their faces, even though I tell my kid to avoid doing so, lest it lands us in trouble or a road rage incident!), standing in a queue, shoving in a queue when required, at times jumping red lights on a bike(!), waiting and haggling at govt. offices, cleanliness drives, public transport (I don't drive a car), etc.

My practical learning is below on how you make it past, else you do get left behind!
  • You have to get on a train so push,push,push! (Exhibit: Mumbai local trains)
  • You have a genuine emergency and there's a queue of dozens of people ahead, so you jump! Or some people just ignore the queue if they feel it is their right to be the chosen one at the front!
  • The person on the other side cannot hear everyone, so all can shout a bit louder albeit at the same time! (For example, doctors in a rural health care center booth--my brother-in-law is a pediatrician working in rural central India, a clerk at a ticket window, an officer on other side of the table in a govt office, etc.)

So the kid not only experiences the above, he gets to participate. When the push comes to shove, he questions me at times if it is necessary, but then many a times I tell him it is OK, so that we can make it past the ocean of humanity (read, a crazy amount of crowd!). The kid's questions arising from his observations and perspectives are below:
  • Why are/is we/he/they/everyone is shoving?
  • Why the other man is riding off when the traffic light is red?
  • Why is the other person shouting when the ambient decibels are low? (The kid has now got used to the loud noises as something that just exist--as the ambient noise! His impression is that one should shout when other noises are loud but he still maintains that in other cases one must lower his/her own voice! I doubt how long he will hold this view.)
  • We should leave home early if we are getting late. So that we do not even have to jump red traffic lights when in rush.

So I wonder what is civil? Evolution did not give us civility. In the wild, it is every animal on its own. Look at the nature--the weaker ones get sidelined. The stronger ones fight over the rights to be the alpha males in a group. Even the punishments and the law does not exist--a stronger animal's word/action is final!

I think we Indians are aggressive and rude in public because of the population burden. If a rich kid grows up with more facilities and luxuries where you pay money to live a life of no shoving and of no queues (say, home deliveries, car instead of a bike, shopping in malls instead of a corner shop, flying instead of taking a train, etc.) then such Indians won't exhibit the typical rudeness. Their behavior is anything but atypical. And the rest wonder and smirk at their behaviors that don't fit with the averages.
“Life is not a journey to the grave with intentions of arriving safely in a pretty well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming ... WOW! What a ride!”
#99 Mar 15th, 2015, 10:42
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#99
I fully concur with Blackfog, that densely populated areas may have a lot to due with the need to be pushy in public. A study was done years ago which proved this point. The more rats they added to a small area, the more aggressive the rats became. Again, I want to emphasize, that I have been duped out of my spot in line-ups for buses and trains, but no Indian person was ever verbally aggressive or rude to me.
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Mujko India bahut passand hai!
#100 Mar 15th, 2015, 11:07
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#100
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Originally Posted by WildernessDevil View Post I fully concur with Blackfog, that densely populated areas may have a lot to due with the need to be pushy in public.
Thanks for pointing to the study.
And may be you've never been in a queue with me or my kid to say so hehe
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Again, I want to emphasize, that I have been duped out of my spot in line-ups for buses and trains,
Jokes apart, I agree that this could easily be the case in reality too, as exemplified by research. Thanks for the hints, I searched and came across the below in a book titled Experimental Psychology. I do not endorse this book so take your pick!
"In summary, the classic finding from research with rats is that crowding produces aggressive behaviors, but crowded primates may avoid aggression by developing coping behaviors."

Then, IMHO, for IndiaMike members, the important items are such coping behaviors. We as a community should share the tips and tricks to help travelers make the best out of their Indian experience.

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but no Indian person was ever verbally aggressive or rude to me.
Lucky you! Like I said, you should try jumping a queue in which I and my son are Unless we understand there is a genuine emergency (and we are considerate), we don't allow ANYONE to get ahead of us in a public queue!
#101 Mar 15th, 2015, 15:06
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#101
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Originally Posted by WildernessDevil View Post True, they will butt in front of you but I have NEVER experience verbal rudeness. They are basically a docile people.
Rudeness does not have to be spoken. I think you have a lot to learn
Quote:
I hope to relocated to northern India on a more permanent basis.
Welcome to the land that removes rose tint from spectacles. For most of us, it does it reasonably slowly and gently, so don't worry, it won't hurt too much.

Without the rose tint, you might not "love" India so much, but you will have grown commitment, and even loyalty/patriotism. You'll love India warts and all --- but you have to discover the warts before that can happen.

This is how my experience has panned out. Your mileage may indeed differ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WildernessDevil View Post I fully concur with Blackfog, that densely populated areas may have a lot to due with the need to be pushy in public. A study was done years ago which proved this point. The more rats they added to a small area, the more aggressive the rats became. Again, I want to emphasize, that I have been duped out of my spot in line-ups for buses and trains, but no Indian person was ever verbally aggressive or rude to me.
Learn to drive here, and do it regularly.
#102 Mar 15th, 2015, 22:11
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#102
Sorry Nick, been to India 7 x for extended periods of time. Please do not "assume" that I wear rose color glasses towards India. They were removed on the second trip over! Still love India for the good-bad & ugly it has to offer.
#103 Mar 15th, 2015, 23:48
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#103
The tint on spectacles is never visible to the wearer.
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