North India rudeness

Reply
#31 Dec 11th, 2014, 10:46
Join Date:
Aug 2004
Location:
cloud
Posts:
1,401
  • RPG is offline
#31
I don't see a problem with what the OP said and I am bemused by the reactions saying "It's the same everywhere". It is not.

Most Indians have no concept of queues. I have been waiting for service at counters in the US where someone from India will turn up and immediately attempt to go around me, perhaps using an elbow for leverage. Also most Indians have no sense of personal space and will grab, push and shove in crowds, just as the OP reports. It is NOT the same in London or elsewhere. This is simply a fact.

I recall being in a crowded alley in Bangkok...when we could go no further, people just stopped and waited politely. They didn't push me or stand so close that their sweat rubbed off on me. Very different from India.

Yet these same rude people will be very helpful to you if you have a problem. Less so in Delhi, probably, but very much so in Kolkata and in small towns everywhere.
#32 Dec 11th, 2014, 11:00
Join Date:
Dec 2008
Location:
In the land of awesomeness
Posts:
31,623
  • aarosh is offline
#32
I have seen queues where the person standing behind pushes the one standing in front of him if there is a centimeter gap before the person standing in front of him. If the person sitting behind the counter takes 30 seconds more than it is required to issue the tickets the other people start shouting. It has been quite a while since I have seen a person jumping a queue to buy tickets or pay bills.

I once had to pay some bills for my office. I reached the counter and was first in line. A person behind me had a single bill and I had 4 bills. I asked the person behind me to come in my place and pay his bill. I think I made his day seeing the smile and happiness in his face. He blessed me and went away. I feel slowly and gradually we will change (I hope by the time my grandson becomes a grandfather)

I have seen a lot of instances where there is constant pushing going on in the local train when a station is about to arrive. When questioned the pusher replies that I am being pushed by the person behind me. I usually board a train that ends at the last station. Before I can get down people start boarding the train.

My personal opinion is that the patience level of people have reduced drastically and they are not ready to wait longer than is required except when they are working. Also the majority of the commuters behave in the same manner since to others it feels that it is normal.
#33 Dec 11th, 2014, 11:59
Join Date:
Jan 2011
Location:
Delhi
Posts:
950
  • Matka is offline
#33
Maybe it's increasing impatience, or maybe it's simply lack of proper education. Maybe instead of complicated calculus and two-kilo history books, we really should be teaching courses waiting in line, not blocking passages, equality for men and women and other such advanced concepts alien to the Indian brain.
#34 Dec 11th, 2014, 12:01
Join Date:
Jul 2014
Location:
South Africa
Posts:
748
  • SinghAlongSA is offline
#34
"What is it with Indians?"...... I feel classing ALL is in-appropriate no matter what!!! and very rude and even worse than being "pushed...shoved" etc

Yes, it is very frustrating and annoying at most times to have people "jump queues and push and shove etc"
An awareness...educating process need to commence at "grass root level" to overcome this problem or at least to drastically reduce this sort of behavour.
Instead of moaning/groaning about this problem let all be positive and contribute / assist in this issue.
Let put through ideas on the "HOW" to get this going....am sure with time and effort this CAN change...like most other things.
#35 Dec 11th, 2014, 12:05
Join Date:
Jul 2009
Location:
london england
Posts:
798
  • 6345789 is offline
#35
My stiff british upper lip tells me not to voice an opinion on this subject, sorry
norman stanley fletcher
#36 Dec 11th, 2014, 15:50
Join Date:
Feb 2014
Location:
Delhi
Posts:
5,564
  • BholeBaba is offline
#36
Is somebody really "rude" if they don't realise it, if there's no intent at all, and if that's just how their environment has shaped them to behave? This may sound like my going off on a tangent but I'm not.

I think the perception of rudeness in others also depends on your own cultural lens and upbringing.

Most Indians don't mean to be rude per se, they're products of a culture where blithe insouciance is the norm. And it's become the norm for reasons already alluded to by others on this thread. It's a sort of default coping mechanism; you push and shove your way forward or you'll lose out. (Indians are shit a queuing up, pleases and thankyous are mostly non-existent (but respect usually is implied in the tone and in the suffix of words if you speak the language). The point about not appreciating personal space is also true.

I remember this one time, on a flight to London, a rustic Punjabi lady unthinkingly barged past an English lady standing in queue for the loo as she kept yelling "EXCUSE ME!". The scene just made me laugh, because I was certain that the Punjabi lady didn't even realise there was a line in the first place.

But ironically, most of the above sort behaviour isn't considered as being rude by most Indians; it's simply one's daily reality which you don't think twice about. It only registers as rudeness or brashness once one travels outside and returns to view the same thing through a different lens.

Of course this indifferent, me-first culture often comes at a horrible price- there is no denying that. I think I'd read a few years ago that something like 2 to 3 people die everyday from falling into the gap at train platforms in Bombay. I don't know if this figure has changed. On Delhi's metro, each coach has a security guard (or so was the case some time back) to maintain order.

On Delhi's roads one gets to witness some of the worst forms of aggression. At a traffic signal I once witnessed a burly Harayanvi SUV driver accost a puny motorcyclist for grazing past his car. He got off and punched the cyclist twice in the stomach- only because he knew he could. It happened so fast. The guy doubled over gasping for air. The most bizarre part was when the fatty waited along side him until he caught his breath and placed him back on his vehicle before himself taking off. Like it was the most normal thing.

My family and I often distribute cooked food, grains and clothing in the city's slums. In no time I get surrounded by a massive, unruly herd intent on snatching everything out of my hands. I used to get intimidated as a kid; now I've learned to shout in order to get some semblance of order.

I think it's easy for us to judge but it takes a while to appreciate that in many cases that judgment itself stems from our own position of privilege.

Anyway, All That Said, I've also seen plenty, plenty of niceness and patience among all sections of people that prevents me from make sweeping judgments.

Last year when I visited the Baidyanath temple at Jharkhand, I was surrounded by village teenagers offering to take photos at Rs 10 or 20 a picture. I gave them Rs. 50 for one shot as I had no change. The place was so crowded that I lost track of them and reconciled myself to the fact that the guy had taken off. I was surprised, when an hour later, the guy searched me out in the market place adjoining the temple and pressed the outstanding change into my palm.

In Delhi too you often see stellar examples of people coming to your assistance- all the time.

A few months ago when my car had a flat and people could see I was struggling to change the tyre, a couple of passersby came to my assistance and fixed it for me as I stood idly by. When I offered to pay some cash they declined.

In the accident I witnessed recently (which I wrote about in another thread), many people reached the hospital on their own to donate blood.

Anyway, back to the word "rudeness", I think it's also worth noting that it works conversely too. Many, many Indians (especially those who're not exposed to the ways of the western world) find western societies to be cold and clinical (even if efficient), lacking altogether in the inter-personal, informal South Asian warmth that engenders the very free-for-allness so many foreigners and Indians decry: where everybody has a free licence to get into everybody else's hair and personal space. People who've lived in both cultures should know what I mean.

PS- Apologies for gassing on so much.
#37 Dec 11th, 2014, 16:46
Join Date:
Jan 2006
Location:
Ireland
Posts:
5,303
  • JuliaF is offline
#37
Quote:
Originally Posted by BholeBaba View Post Of course this indifferent, me-first culture often comes at a horrible price- there is no denying that. I think I'd read a few years ago that something like 2 to 3 people die everyday from falling into the gap at train platforms in Bombay. I don't know if this figure has changed. On Delhi's metro, each coach has a security guard (or so was the case some time back) to maintain order.
I read something recently (can't remember what or where or who , maybe an interview with a Bombay writer ??) where someone made a quite different point in relation to the gap between platforms and trains in Bombay. He said that in spite of everything else going on in India and the world he still had faith in the goodness of human nature and he illustrated this by the hands that come out from departing local trains that are already packed full to help someone who is running late to get on. The people inside the train are extending their hands to help a total stranger not knowing his religion, language, place of origin etc and even though the extra body will make their own journey even more uncomfortable.
#38 Dec 11th, 2014, 16:52
Join Date:
Jan 2010
Location:
London (UK) (Current) & Pali Hill, Bombay (IN)
Posts:
8,884
  • ViShVa is offline
#38
Their rudeness knows no bounds. In polite circles they would not let him board to save him from the crush.
#39 Dec 11th, 2014, 17:05
Join Date:
Oct 2004
Location:
Chennai, India
Posts:
69,906
  • Nick-H is offline
#39
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViShVa View Post Out of interest, where does the North stop and the South start?
Thiruvanmiyur.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prince09 View Post
South starts at the borders where Maharashtra, Chattisgarh and Odisha touch the regions of Karnataka, Telangana and Andhra.
I got told off by someone who said that they did not live in North or South India, but East India!

Quote:
Originally Posted by prince09 View Post Not sure where China stands rite now
Hopefully still the same distance away from North/North-East India

Quote:
but I remember reading somewhere that the rudest people on earth were the french followed by americans followed by chinese.
Paris, in particular, I think. That's what I have been told by people who have lived there. Probably the rest of France is OK as long as nobody tries to tax their onions or their sheep. My Cornish friend told me that Bretons treated himas a celtic brother, and professed their dislike of the rest of France.

Quote:
And Forbes list rates France, Russia, UK, Germany in the top five followed by US and china.

India is number 12.

The British apparently voted themselves as “world’s worst tourists”!
Brits can be quite good at self-awareness!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RPG View Post Most Indians have no concept of queues.
I don't think that is true at all: I think that most Indians understand queues perfectly well. What those who simply push in do not have a concept of is that the queue applies to them too, and they also confidently expect nobody will challenge them. If you do, you find out that, yes, they knew very well about queuing.

But... this will only take a minute...


Quote:
Originally Posted by aarosh View Post I have seen queues where the person standing behind pushes the one standing in front of him if there is a centimeter gap before the person standing in front of him..
I have a queuing theory that queues compress from the back --- but this can be somewhat extreme in India. I love this statement by an Indian friend to another guy who was pressing up against his back in an airport queue: "We are not going to get there any faster if you breed with me."

Tailgating on the roads: I am going to put a lit up sign in the back window: "Your interest in my backside is unwelcome: back off!"

Or, for politer moments, "I'll turn off my engine and you can push, OK?"

And I have heard of people with the sign: "The closer you get the slower I will drive."

Quote:
Originally Posted by BholeBaba View Post A few months ago when my car had a flat and people could see I was struggling to change the tyre, a couple of passersby came to my assistance and fixed it for me as I stood idly by. When I offered to pay some cash they declined.
As an aside: we love to curse auto drivers, but break down, and the chances are it will be an auto driver that stops to help.
#40 Dec 11th, 2014, 17:37
Join Date:
Dec 2008
Location:
Delhi NCR
Posts:
15,353
  • vaibhav_arora is offline
#40
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViShVa View Post Out of interest, where does the North stop and the South start?
The traditional boundary is South of the Vindhyas and the Narmada river is the South of India - known as Dakshinpatha in ancient times and Deccan later on. North of the Vindhya range was Hindostan (medieval). The range was the traditional boundary of Aryavarta (ancient indo-aryan territory).
#41 Dec 11th, 2014, 18:16
It's all Greek to me, but Benglish will do
Join Date:
Dec 2005
Location:
over a 'wine-dark sea'
Posts:
16,124
  • theyyamdancer is offline
#41
I have not read all of the posts in this thread, but in response to NYTim's assertion that Delhi metro crowds behave badly - have you ever tried Paris metro ?

No, don't bother to answer that.

In the street it is even worse than in the underground trains. People push and shove each other all the time. It is as if they have absolutely no notion of public space whatsoever.

I am used to it, but it can be mind-boggling.
#42 Dec 11th, 2014, 18:24
Join Date:
May 2012
Location:
Mumbai
Posts:
295
  • doksanomo is offline
#42
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuliaF View Post I read something recently (can't remember what or where or who , maybe an interview with a Bombay writer ??) where someone made a quite different point in relation to the gap between platforms and trains in Bombay. He said that in spite of everything else going on in India and the world he still had faith in the goodness of human nature and he illustrated this by the hands that come out from departing local trains that are already packed full to help someone who is running late to get on. The people inside the train are extending their hands to help a total stranger not knowing his religion, language, place of origin etc and even though the extra body will make their own journey even more uncomfortable.
There's something like that in Suketu Mehta's Maximum City, where he compares the hands coming out to pull someone in, to a blossoming flower..gross and sentimental, I thought then. "Hah! has he ever travelled on a Virar local?!". That was in the period when I was spending a lot of time away from Bombay and disliked everything about the city.

But I often find myself recalling those words now, now that I'm one of the pushing shoving hordes.

I have no experience of other cultures but rude behaviour in urban India can fill a book. Yet, like BB, most of my encounters have been amusing, more so when I've been at the receiving end. In a city like Bombay, the stress of living is so much that I often wonder why murders on the train are not a daily affair.

Travel on the metro is like a picnic compared to the local but here too, people break the queue all the time - the guards have all but given up. Its like BB said, trying to get ahead of others has become second nature. You wouldn't survive in Bombay otherwise.
#43 Dec 11th, 2014, 18:27
Join Date:
Jan 2010
Location:
London (UK) (Current) & Pali Hill, Bombay (IN)
Posts:
8,884
  • ViShVa is offline
#43
X - Cross-posted - X

No no TY! The locals in New York and London and Paris queue with dignity, always respectful and mindful of others at Black Friday and Boxing Day sales. Any pushing shoving and queue jumping is on account of all the foreigners there.
#44 Dec 11th, 2014, 18:32
It's all Greek to me, but Benglish will do
Join Date:
Dec 2005
Location:
over a 'wine-dark sea'
Posts:
16,124
  • theyyamdancer is offline
#44
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViShVa View Post No no TY! The locals in New York and London and Paris queue with dignity, always respectful and mindful of others at Black Friday and Boxing Day sales. Any pushing shoving and queue jumping is on account of all the foreigners there.

That must be written tongue-in-cheek. Surely?

The notion of a 'queue' is a foreign one here in Paris. A scrum is more likely.

By the way, we don't indulge in those 'anglo-saxon' sales on 'Black Friday'. Someone from Brazil asked me in the metro where she could go to buy things on Black Friday... I could not reply. Actually the fact that she spoke to the person sitting next to her on the train was also breaking a cultural taboo.

The only place the queue is respected is at the cinema. Thank God for small mercies. Oh, OK, at the boulangerie as well. (Just bought a most amazing 'pain aux chataignes' i.e. a bread loaf made with chestnut flour. That must be the most off-topic ever on a thread about Dilli.)


Now I must go and line up again to see another movie...
#45 Dec 11th, 2014, 18:39
Join Date:
Jan 2010
Location:
London (UK) (Current) & Pali Hill, Bombay (IN)
Posts:
8,884
  • ViShVa is offline
#45
Ah those foreigners! Talking to someone on the Metro! What next? Noble French traditions are now confined to Quebec.
Reply

Similar Threads

Title, Username, & Date Last Post Replies Views Forum
Solo female traveller to north and north east of india from december 20th Feb 11th, 2013 14:15 8 4508 India Travel Partners
North India - north india - Car and Driver Recommendations. Jun 17th, 2011 14:31 0 1415 Delhi


Posting Rules

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Forum Rules»
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.3.2
© IndiaMike.com 2018
Page Load Success