Marriage as a formality , does it involve parents?

#1 Jan 17th, 2013, 13:50
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  • Loony is offline
#1
Hello dear forum users..

another question from me. Hope again that you guys/ girls can help.

I'm from Holland, and since 1,5 year I'm together with my Indian boyfriend.
We are living together here in India for more then 1 year.
We are doing very well and are happily in love..

But our visa's are not making it easier for us.

Soon my visa will end for India, and then it looks like i can only come back on 3 months visas each time..
And if we want to go to Europe for sometime,then its not easy for him.
(Since he has quite his job, so we could live our dreams and start our own company.. more info and questions about that here: http://www.indiamike.com/india/india...6/#post1533167 )

Anyway, even though we are very fresh together, and we want to keep marriage as far away as possible.. it seems more and more that this would be the solution for most of our issues..

So we decided consider it, we wont see it as marriage yet, just as a paper that makes the people at the embassies happy..

So what do we need?
And what is it called? If you only want to get married on paper, for the visa papers? Where do you do it?
(you can also give me the links of related topics)

And then another question from my boyfriends end,
Does a marriage in India involve the parents?
Or can you do it without their knowledge?

Like I said before, we dont see it as "marriage" yet, just a formality.

Thats why my boyfriend doesnt feel the need to overwhelm his parents yet. Although they know we are together, we will get a "real" marriage when they are ready for it. And that may take years maybe?

(And in those years we dont want to keep struggeling with visa issues constantly.. )


ps.. We are not thinking of marriage because he wants to be in europe so badly, or i want to be in india so badly.. we are honestly a very very happy couple, and we just dont want to struggle because of visa's.. we still like to consider hundreds of different options if they are possible.. marriage is just our last option , if nothing else works.. dont get us wrong in that
#2 Jan 17th, 2013, 14:02
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Originally Posted by Loony View Post Like I said before, we dont see it as "marriage" yet, just a formality.
Its upto you what you make of your marriage.

I assume the two of you belong to different religions. In that case marriage according to the special marriage act is suitable for you. Please seach this site as there are hundreds of post on how to do it.

In short - if you are both adult(you 18 and he 21) and single then no one can stop you from being married.

There is no legal requirement that his parents know of the marriage. But if you stay in a small town or they have many relatives accross th city its possible that they may come to know that you have given a notice to get married.
#3 Jan 17th, 2013, 14:15
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Originally Posted by nayan View Post Its upto you what you make of your marriage.

I assume the two of you below to different religions. In that case marriage according to the special marriage act is suitable for you. Please seach this site as there are hundreds of post on how to do it.

In short - if you are both adult(you 18 and he 21) and single then no one can stop you from being married.

There is no legal requirement that his parents know of the marriage. But if you stay in a small town or they have many relatives accross th city its possible that they may come to know that you have given a notice to get married.
Thanks Nayan for your fast answer!

Like I said, we try to figure out different ways first. But we still like to gather information about "marriage" .

We are 26 and 27, and indeed of different religions. So that special marriage act will work for us. I go do my research!

And we live pretty far from his parents (we in Goa/ Mumbai, they in Bhopal) ..
So they wont find out, unless we tell them
we just dont want to overwhelm them yet. They are pretty traditional, and they are just getting used to the idea their son is dating a western, although we have told them a year back.. so marriage is far away for them.. so out of respect, we keep the "real" marriage, for when they are ready.. and we too haha..
#4 Jan 17th, 2013, 17:57
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As Nayan has already mentioned, its up to you as a couple to make any sense of your marriage. Of course, you may agree, it may not be a good idea to hide a marriage that has taken place from either parents/loved ones. Marriage in any part of the world is considered a special relationship/event.

You can get married under the SMA just to satisfy the Visa related issues and later have a proper social marriage when you choose to, but legally you are already married when you marry under the SMA. So I assume it takes away a large part of the feeling of getting married and may seem odd.

There are quite a few western women in Mumbai who have done this really well and I would recommend reading up http://www.whiteindianhousewife.com/.
#5 Jan 17th, 2013, 18:17
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#5
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Originally Posted by Loony View Post Hello dear forum users..

another question from me. Hope again that you guys/ girls can help.

...

And then another question from my boyfriends end,
Does a marriage in India involve the parents?
Or can you do it without their knowledge?

Like I said before, we dont see it as "marriage" yet, just a formality.
A proper "Indian marriage" involves parents but there are always exceptions.Your case is a classic traditional vs western marriage which most of the traditional parents would not like to happen and get in apprehensive mode.So may be you can marry for visa stuff and do proper one later on.

Anyway best of luck.
#6 Jan 17th, 2013, 22:49
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I see your point, but have to be picky about words like "proper," and "Western." In a "proper" Western marriage the parents are very much involved. Just for the moment sticking with Christian-Church weddings, the bride is given away by her father in the marriage --- and that is done, even though it only has a symbolic meaning if they are both adults, even when they are older enough not to actually need parental consent. In fact, in UK, there are a couple of years of age where marriage is legal, but only with parental consent.
#7 Jan 18th, 2013, 01:02
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Hi Loony!

No, a civil marriage doesnīt include necessarily the parents.
But you have to marry at the place where your boyfriend is registered in the ration card and if that is his parentīs place, then possibly they come to know.
In some rare cases the voter id is also accepted by the registrar (if that may be issued at another place).
Additional to that you should find out, what all includes the legalisation of your marriage certificate by the Embassy/Consulate of the Netherlands. If they have the same issues as Germany with indian documents, than it is possible they will inquire at his parents also...

In general, you only need to bring the required documents and 3 witnesses for the civil marriage, which his held under the Special Marriage Act.
In Mumbai it would be done at the Family Court in Bandra.
The exact documents you can inquire at the responsible court, best you talk to the registrar itself and not to a clerk or lawyer!!
In Mumbai, it is a lady, she is very strict, but fair!
After producing all the required documents, you have to give a notice period of 30 working days, which doesnīt mean that you necessarily marry after 30 days, cause in every court only 5 marriages happen per day. So donīt expect the entire paper and notice period process will be done quickly!!
But after that, you will leave the court as husband and wife! ;-)

Your decision of hiding your marriage, I donīt want to judge!
I would just not do it, cause out of my experience an intercultural marriage needs supporters and my wedding would actually not have happened without the support of my family-in-law! We had to deal with quite some bureaucratical difficulties and my in-laws helped us a lot, also emotionally.
And even if they would not have agreed in our marriage, I never wanted to be a secret, in any case I wanted my boyfriend to tell them frankly about us!
But that is only my experience and opinion, your case is different and you know what to do!

So, have a nice "only-for-the-papers-wedding" and a great life ahead! :-)
#8 Jan 18th, 2013, 01:54
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#8
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But you have to marry at the place where your boyfriend is registered in the ration card and if that is his parentīs place, then possibly they come to know
One of you has to live within the jurisdiction of the registrar for thirty days prior to giving notice. Ration card is not specified. Many Indian citizens do not have a ration card; many have not even tried to obtain one.

There do seem to be variations on the local interpretations, and even the individual interpretations, so you may have come up against a demand for it, but I do not think that the Special Marriage Act mentions ration cards. The fact that my Indian wife has never had one and is not mentioned as a family member on one either was no deterrent to our marriage.
#9 Jan 18th, 2013, 02:24
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Originally Posted by Nick-H View Post One of you has to live within the jurisdiction of the registrar for thirty days prior to giving notice. Ration card is not specified. Many Indian citizens do not have a ration card; many have not even tried to obtain one.

There do seem to be variations on the local interpretations, and even the individual interpretations, so you may have come up against a demand for it, but I do not think that the Special Marriage Act mentions ration cards. The fact that my Indian wife has never had one and is not mentioned as a family member on one either was no deterrent to our marriage.
We could not marry in Punjab, cause my at that time fiancée was not mentioned in the punjabi ration card!
For getting our marriage registered in Mumbai even I had to be mentioned in the family ration card!!
In a friendīs case from Bangalore the registrar accepted the voter id card, cause the indian citizen didnīt have the ration card, but that was an exception!

So, Loony, that is why it is essential to inquire at the responsible court, which documents you have to produce!!
#10 Jan 18th, 2013, 12:04
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Then a person may have to fight. Subject to any local rules I'm not away of (Hello nwcank?), a ration card, or being mentioned on one, is not a requirement for a Special-Marriage-Act marriage.

I married in India seven years ago and have lived here ever since. I would have been one of the first posting marriage-related questions and answers on IndiaMike, back in the days when I knew nothing about it. Since then, the section has just ballooned into an amazing wealth of varied knowledge and experience --- and this is, I think, the first time I've met an assertion that ration cards must be involved.

There is, however, one experience that is common: when dealing with an official in India, the rules are whatever that official thinks they are. The official may be wrong. They may be stubborn to the point of a brick wall. The experiences here cover everything from expensive intransigence to a simple and straightforward experience. "Requirements" of various specific documents may figure among the not-so-simple experiences: it does not make those requirements a legal fact.
#11 Jan 18th, 2013, 16:52
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#11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony View Post And then another question from my boyfriends end,
Does a marriage in India involve the parents?
Or can you do it without their knowledge?

Like I said before, we dont see it as "marriage" yet, just a formality.

Thats why my boyfriend doesnt feel the need to overwhelm his parents yet. Although they know we are together, we will get a "real" marriage when they are ready for it. And that may take years maybe?

(And in those years we dont want to keep struggeling with visa issues constantly.. )


ps.. We are not thinking of marriage because he wants to be in europe so badly, or i want to be in india so badly.. we are honestly a very very happy couple, and we just dont want to struggle because of visa's.. we still like to consider hundreds of different options if they are possible
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony View Post
Like I said, we try to figure out different ways first. But we still like to gather information about "marriage" .

We are 26 and 27, and indeed of different religions. So that special marriage act will work for us. I go do my research!

And we live pretty far from his parents (we in Goa/ Mumbai, they in Bhopal) ..
So they wont find out, unless we tell them
we just dont want to overwhelm them yet. They are pretty traditional, and they are just getting used to the idea their son is dating a western, although we have told them a year back.. so marriage is far away for them.. so out of respect, we keep the "real" marriage, for when they are ready.. and we too haha..
You file for 30 day notice in the jurisdiction where your spouse to be can establish "residence", be it a job, property, parental residence yada yada. - And, be very sure....It is a real marriage. all right.

Never ever, ever Never - say things on a public, googlable forum that you will regret later. Why ? All it takes a disgruntled relative to say the marriage was sham for the sake of a visa. The woman herself publically said it was not a "real" marriage. Then you have your own country to contend with. Whatever you say, they "your" country's Consuls will always doubt that you have a real marriage - rather a marriage of visa convenience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asha11 View Post Hi Loony!

No, a civil marriage doesnīt include necessarily the parents.
But you have to marry at the place where your boyfriend is registered in the ration card and if that is his parentīs place, then possibly they come to know.
In some rare cases the voter id is also accepted by the registrar (if that may be issued at another place).
Additional to that you should find out, what all includes the legalisation of your marriage certificate by the Embassy/Consulate of the Netherlands. If they have the same issues as Germany with indian documents, than it is possible they will inquire at his parents also...

In general, you only need to bring the required documents and 3 witnesses for the civil marriage, which his held under the Special Marriage Act.
In Mumbai it would be done at the Family Court in Bandra.
The exact documents you can inquire at the responsible court, best you talk to the registrar itself and not to a clerk or lawyer!!
In Mumbai, it is a lady, she is very strict, but fair!
After producing all the required documents, you have to give a notice period of 30 working days, which doesnīt mean that you necessarily marry after 30 days, cause in every court only 5 marriages happen per day.


So, have a nice "only-for-the-papers-wedding" and a great life ahead! :-)
No really true. Establishing residence for the purpose of registration of wedding, is a state/city function. Under SMA, its a 2-for-1 deal Registration and Marriage.

It is a real wedding; if you keep insisting "only-for-the-papers-wedding" the woman can get into a soup/pickle so bad, it will be a mess.

This 5 per day is also something I never heard. Registration of marriage is law of the land, and if 5 per day is a rule, can you imagine that in NCD (National Capital District) on 02/18/2012 there were 25,000+ marriages alone ! In Ludhiana about 9000+ on the same day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick-H View Post One of you has to live within the jurisdiction of the registrar for thirty days prior to giving notice. Ration card is not specified. Many Indian citizens do not have a ration card; many have not even tried to obtain one.

There do seem to be variations on the local interpretations, and even the individual interpretations, so you may have come up against a demand for it, but I do not think that the Special Marriage Act mentions ration cards.
You are correct. It is local function, to satisfy authenticity and domicility. In absence of which many sham marriages could take place, an exodus from Eastern border states if you will....
#12 Jan 18th, 2013, 17:30
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#12
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Originally Posted by Nick-H View Post Then a person may have to fight. Subject to any local rules I'm not away of (Hello nwcank?), a ration card, or being mentioned on one, is not a requirement for a Special-Marriage-Act marriage.

I married in India seven years ago and have lived here ever since. I would have been one of the first posting marriage-related questions and answers on IndiaMike, back in the days when I knew nothing about it. Since then, the section has just ballooned into an amazing wealth of varied knowledge and experience --- and this is, I think, the first time I've met an assertion that ration cards must be involved.

There is, however, one experience that is common: when dealing with an official in India, the rules are whatever that official thinks they are. The official may be wrong. They may be stubborn to the point of a brick wall. The experiences here cover everything from expensive intransigence to a simple and straightforward experience. "Requirements" of various specific documents may figure among the not-so-simple experiences: it does not make those requirements a legal fact.
What shall I say...
That is my experience! Ours is definitely a special case, there was nothing straightforward in it, it was really much expensive intransigence.... And it is nothing common that the foreigner has to be mentioned in the ration card, but it had to be done in our case!

And since we faced insane bureaucratic work, I talked to many indo-western couples who married in India and in all the cases the rationcard or voter id was mandatory as proof of residence, legal or not.
#13 Jan 18th, 2013, 18:13
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Originally Posted by nycank View Post No really true. Establishing residence for the purpose of registration of wedding, is a state/city function. Under SMA, its a 2-for-1 deal Registration and Marriage.
In our case it was no "full" marriage, it was the registration of our religious marriage under SMA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nycank View Post It is a real wedding; if you keep insisting "only-for-the-papers-wedding" the woman can get into a soup/pickle so bad, it will be a mess.
I absolutely agree with you, but it is not my business to judge her intention and behaviour!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nycank View Post This 5 per day is also something I never heard. Registration of marriage is law of the land, and if 5 per day is a rule, can you imagine that in NCD (National Capital District) on 02/18/2012 there were 25,000+ marriages alone ! In Ludhiana about 9000+ on the same day.
Believe it or not, that authorities told us in Mumbai and Punjab and friends in Delhi, only 5 registrations/marriages under SMA per day (I even saw the calender of the office clerk). Our friends in Delhi even couldnīt give the notice period in the first go, cause there only 3 couples per day are allowed to do so and they were 4th...

If somebody else has different experiences, I would neither doubt those. I just want to say, in indian bureaucracy really everything is possible! And I want to warn people to have too big expectations in a quick and easy going process! Thatīs all!!
#14 Jan 18th, 2013, 22:40
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#14
Quote:
And then another question from my boyfriends end,
Does a marriage in India involve the parents?
Thats why my boyfriend doesnt feel the need to
Just noticed that from the Indian context..
#15 Jan 18th, 2013, 22:50
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#15
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Originally Posted by Asha11 View Post In our case it was no "full" marriage, it was the registration of our religious marriage under SMA.




Believe it or not, that authorities told us in Mumbai and Punjab and friends in Delhi, only 5 registrations/marriages under SMA per day (I even saw the calender of the office clerk). Our friends in Delhi even couldnīt give the notice period in the first go, cause there only 3 couples per day are allowed to do so and they were 4th...
I wonder if one can have a half-marriage ? Or a Rajesh=Khanna marriage anymore.

You cannot register a religious marriage under SMA. Zilch Nada. You probably registered under HMA/BMA/; or rather in Mumbai there is Bombay Marriage Act. SMA is not post-hoc it does not allow anything previously solmenized.

In New Delhi there are over a dozen places where you can register and give notice under SMA.

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