Marriage Advice Please...

#16 Feb 10th, 2019, 15:49
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#16
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The problem with another marriage is that the son is already married!
Possibly not if the marriage was void.

It's not unknown for couples in India to have more than one wedding. Last week, I went to the temple marriage of such a couple in the morning; they had a church wedding in the evening. Sorry, I don't know how or as what (or if) they registered it. Indians are pragmatic about this stuff: if there were four religions involved, with all four family members insisting, they might have four weddings I suppose! And the law does not bother them about it. And nobody is ever going to investigate or track down the fact of an early temple marriage --- although it might be politic to remove the signs of it, eg toe rings, thalis, etc, in case of awkward registrars.
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#17 Feb 10th, 2019, 17:14
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#17

Thanks again for further replies - much appreciated.

No paperwork was supplied after the 'ceremony', so I'm happy to work on the basis that there was no actual wedding, certainly not in the legal sense, but a ceremony which was respectful to the bride and her family. I'm also happy with that.

Your bluntness is correct! I agree!

I think the way forward is the SMA, it's just the ridiculous problem with getting a CNI for Mike. I will visit our local Registry office tomorrow, but have read that they do not issue these for Commonwealth countries, so we're caught in a catch 22 situation. Would a 'Single Status Affidavit' drawn up by a local solicitor here suffice?

Yes - all understood about problems & work needed for visa - we've got help with this & have a realistic view on the chances. This is probably why we feel so stupid about overlooking the wedding certificate issue - we weren't concentrating on this angle.

All noted about the islands, & I think this is a good final option if the SMA route fails. Also - will be a good story to tell their grandchildren one day...! 

OK - I'll keep you posted.

Jim

#18 Feb 10th, 2019, 19:12
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#18
@ Jim . As you have found out the UK does not issue a certificate.

I managed to get one for my marriage at Delhi in 2012 but they stopped doing it in 2013 .

A friend on mine used an affidavit drawn up by a UK solicitor and along with that he used the letter from the link below and his registrar was happy.

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...on-note-on-noc

Technically the UK will not issue a no impediment for Commonwealth countries..However a few have managed to get it via their local registry office .


Remember that the marriage registration has to take place in registrar office which has jurisdiction at either the bride or the bridegrooms address.

This will mean that in your case it will be your Daughter in laws Indian address's registrar..

So you have to deal with the same people again..
#19 Feb 10th, 2019, 19:25
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#19
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getting a CNI for Mike
Seems it can't be done. The standard-form letters for use in the circumstances can be downloaded from the consular site here.

When I did this, over 14 years ago, I did a Statutory Declaration in UK. This is sort-of a step up from an affidavit, and you have to find a solicitor who is a Notary Public to do it for you. It has the advantage of a nice red seal at the bottom! This cost me about 40GBP... and the registrar here wasn't interested in it: she said my word was good enough for her! You can do an affidavit here, probably for Rs.100 or so. Such documents in India look good, because they come on printed "stamp paper" with a nice looking "stamp" across the top of the sheet. Maybe the British option would be better for a British citizen.

By the way, both parties have to show their marital status. Divorced/Widowed paperwork is good enough, which covered my wife: I don't know what never-marrieds do. ukdoctor, your experience?

The actual cost of an Indian SMA wedding, payable to the registrar, is something absurd like Rs.15. Then there is a charge per copy for copies of the certificate, and I think that comes a week later. Who knows, it's probably computerised now! Our registrar did so few SMA weddings that she did not even have a printed form for it: our certificate is hand-typed, on a manual machine. It was perfectly good enough to get my wife UK visitor (non-settlement) visas, at least up to about ten years ago (she and I were never interested in living there) but, of late, there has been talk of legalisation (making a legal document more legal? if not apostille . I believe there are agencies through which you can get this done if you need it.

You have to pay the fee mentioned. You have to pay document writers (clustered around the register office) for typing up any needed documents. If you need an affidavit done, they will have a tame lawyer who will attest it, and charge a small fee. All of this, in India, barely touches the hundreds of rupees. Do try to avoid using the services of lawyers for anything else, which may then involve thousands or worse. Our registrar was so by-the-book that she would not even accept a box of sweets from us --- although one of her clerks managed to get Rs.200.

If I remember correctly, one person has to have lived within the jurisdiction of the registrar for 30 days. Thirty days notice must be given, which is posted on the office board. I think from recent posts here that one person can do this.

You'll all be glad you had the Hindu wedding: an Indian register-office wedding is the least romantic thing I've ever done!

Your homework now is to google for and read thoroughly that Special Marriage Act. Whoever goes to the Register Office should do the same, and take a copy with them just in case. If Mike is now in UK, This will be Karishma (ie "The Girl," as she is known in Indian matrimonial processes). Perhaps with The-Girl's-Father as backup.
#20 Feb 10th, 2019, 20:24
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#20
@ NickH . I used a lawyer in India and he drew up an affidavit for both of us saying that both of us were single and sane ( Mrs.ukdoctor seems to think that I misrepresented myself ).

This was on an official looking stamp paper. I submitted this along with the letter I got from BHC Delhi.

@Jim

I managed to find this old post of mind which had details of requirements for visa application to the UK for the spouse.

Post 71 of the thread in the link

https://www.indiamike.com/india/marr...5/#post1516925

Though the post is over 5 years old , the documents are almost the same except that you have to check about the current financial requirements / English tests/ TB etc but this will give your son a general idea and also time to gather the documents while sorting out the marriage.

Same for your daughter in law as well so that she can get her English test / TB test sorted.

NB: A friend who used my list found it accurate as of 2017 but please check if there are any additional requirements.
#21 Feb 11th, 2019, 15:21
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#21

Again - many thanks for these responses. All this information helps us.

We are going along the SMA route. Karishma has this morning visited the Registrar / Collector's office & moved 2 steps forward & 1 step back! They have accepted the BHC advice letters re no CNI for Mike, so that's a big hurdle over, however they are insisting Mike must attend at the intial registration. Obviously he will need to be there 30 days later for the registration.

This is a big headache for Mike as his job will be at risk if he takes more time out. I am waiting to hear from solicitors I have contacted - I got details from the BHC List of Lawyers - & hopefully they may have a way round this.

Re. the CNI - we will still obtain a single status affidavit or a statutory declaration just in case...

...nearly there... but still a way to go....

Many thanks.

Jim




#22 Feb 11th, 2019, 19:38
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#22
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Originally Posted by jimsalmon View Post Again - many thanks for these responses. All this information helps us.

We are going along the SMA route. Karishma has this morning visited the Registrar / Collector's office & moved 2 steps forward & 1 step back! They have accepted the BHC advice letters re no CNI for Mike, so that's a big hurdle over, however they are insisting Mike must attend at the intial registration. Obviously he will need to be there 30 days later for the registration.

This is a big headache for Mike as his job will be at risk if he takes more time out. I am waiting to hear from solicitors I have contacted - I got details from the BHC List of Lawyers - & hopefully they may have a way round this.

Re. the CNI - we will still obtain a single status affidavit or a statutory declaration just in case...

...nearly there... but still a way to go....

Many thanks.

Jim
I was asked to attend at the initial registration as well.

Was a bit of a nightmare as after flying to India I found out that the registrar had gone off on leave. I had the same issue with work and had only around 36 hours in India before I had to fly back.

Since I don't live in mainland UK , I need an extra flight to just get to the UK and then fly to India . I think I spent more time in travel than I actually spent in india

Our lawyer managed to somehow sort it out.

When going for registration carry every single document from birth to now.

I carried everything from my passport , OCI , Birth certificate, medical degree certificate and the clerk at the office wanted to see my 10th standard/class certificate ( which I didn't have )

Luckily I could argue that its not a legal requirement to pass 10th standard to be able to marry ( I even had my medical degree certificate ) and common sense prevailed.

On the other hand the final marriage at the registrar office after 30 days was very easy.

PS: As far as I know you can marry any time AFTER the 30 day period. I.e you don't have to go on the 31st day to marry..

This might help in planning for leave etc.

PS: As far as I know as long as you marry within 3 months of the notice being accepted it is fine .
Last edited by ukdoctor; Feb 12th, 2019 at 02:54.. Reason: Clarification.
#23 Feb 11th, 2019, 23:26
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#23

Marriage Advice Please...

Let us keep the language clear! The initial thing is "giving notice."

You do not have to marry on day 31, but there is a time limit. After that, one would have to give notice again.
#24 Feb 12th, 2019, 02:42
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#24
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Originally Posted by Nick-H View Post Let us keep the language clear! The initial thing is "giving notice."

You do not have to marry on day 31, but there is a time limit. After that, one would have to give notice again.
From what I know its 3 months from the date of notice. Edited earlier post to clarify things.
#25 Feb 12th, 2019, 07:38
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#25
Each state, or jurisdiction, can add (but not subtract) from the requirements for SMA, or registration notice. Why ? There have been in the past, a certain pattern of fraud committed that required the local authorities to put additional requirements.

Thus, the requirements are, what the SDM, or a designated marriage registrar says they are
#26 Feb 12th, 2019, 07:57
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#26
Furthermore, I have been told offline, that Rajasthan has it's own version of the Act - Rajasthan Registration of Births, Deaths and Marriages Act, 1958. It pertains to registration.
#27 Feb 12th, 2019, 16:39
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#27

I am again very grateful to you all for your replies - knowing that we are not the only ones really does help! - along with some healthy scepticism to counter the Indian optimism...

Mike plans to return on 27th February to submit papers... & then again 30+ days later. He will take out a case full of every paper & certificate we can think of together with lots of copies.

I am still slightly hopeful that I will hear back from a good lawyer to say there is a way round this first visit, but I won't hold my breath. 

I will look at the  Rajasthan Registration of Births, Deaths and Marriages Act, 1958.  

Thank you. 

Jim

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