The Mullapperiyar Issue-Why not an amicable solution

#1 Dec 21st, 2011, 13:16
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#1
How do we expect two countries to solve their border problem amicably when two states can't solve simple probems amicably? I feel ashamed to see Kerala and Tamilnad doing what they are doing now. Are not the politicians of both the states and the inefficient and indecisive Union govt. responsible for such an imbroglio?
#2 Dec 23rd, 2011, 07:52
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I think this is purely managed drama by Kerala state for the economic interests of the area around Mullaperiyar and to use the water to generate electricity. In the greed and selfishness, Kerala state forgot that Tamilnadu is in India and they are neighbours. I feel ashamed of how Kerala goverment managed / manipulated this issue.
Last edited by sujith_kochi; Dec 23rd, 2011 at 07:53.. Reason: purely managed drama by Kerala state
#3 Dec 23rd, 2011, 07:56
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All is vote bank politics.

Choose congress in both end TN and KL then see what happens
#4 Dec 23rd, 2011, 14:52
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With ongoing news stories, the media seldom stops to repeat the subject from the beginning. Therefore, although I see it trundling on every day, I am at a loss to understand its beginnings.

What I do understand is that the safety of dams is a matter for engineers, not politicians, and that caution should be the word.

What I don't understand is TN's objection (both from this and the previous govt: both the main parties seem to agree on this) to a new dam, given Kerala's assurance that the supply of water to TN would not be interrupted. The safety of the people in Kerala is vital: the supply of water to TN is also vital.

I have heard theories from both sides of the border that the unrest and violence is engineered to make this politician or that party look bad and unable to control the situation.
#5 Dec 23rd, 2011, 15:35
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#5
Quote:
Originally Posted by sujith_kochi View Post I think this is purely managed drama by Kerala state for the economic interests of the area around Mullaperiyar and to use the water to generate electricity. In the greed and selfishness, Kerala state forgot that Tamilnadu is in India and they are neighbours. I feel ashamed of how Kerala goverment managed / manipulated this issue.
What a shocking display of ignorance. Maybe try to study the issue. Just a few hints.

1. The dam is 116 years old. It was built to last for a maximum of 70.

2. The dam is leaking and has not been maintained properly for decades.

3. There have been close to 30 tremors and earthquakes in the area this year because the high level of water behind the dam is putting enormous pressure on the earthquake faultline.

4. If the dam breaks it is likely that the huge amount of water that will be released will take Idukki dam with it as well. This will leave Kerala without electricity for years. All villages in the path of the water will be totally destroyed. Kochi and parts of the backwaters will be under water.

5. In Kerala Tamils are not being persecuted. In Tamil Nadu Malayalees are attacked, their property is destroyed and they are told to leave Tamil Nadu.

6. The politics surrounding the issue is, in Kerala, straightforward. For once, the political parties are in agreement. In Tamil Nadu there are complicated issues, and a power struggle between political parties where the creation of an external enemy is in the interest of various parties.

7. The media in Tamil Nadu are blatantly lying in their reports of the issue.

It is so obvious that is an issue that has been created by Tamil Nadu, and, unfortunately, parts of the population in Tamil Nadu will listen to their politicians, and resort to violence.
#6 Dec 24th, 2011, 14:25
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#6

Mullpperiyar.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by pundabee View Post What a shocking display of ignorance. Maybe try to study the issue. Just a few hints.
The response as you say is a case of pure ignorance and I did not respond as I was sure that some one will and you have. Thank you.By the way why are we Indians always trying to find political solutions for technical issues? I just wonder! Not because we are fools; but may be we are unprincipled, gutless opportunists.By the way NICk has proved to be more objective than being cynical
Last edited by narayanvee; Dec 24th, 2011 at 14:30.. Reason: Adding some thing
#7 Dec 24th, 2011, 15:15
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...
Quote:
1. The dam is 116 years old. It was built to last for a maximum of 70.
I'm not arguing, but I think there was a tendency then to massively over-engineer. An architect once told me that they thought that the builders of Victorian England would be astonished to find their houses still standing after so long.

I'm not going to join the throng of pretend-to-be-experts on this ... but I wonder how long dams last in the rest of the world?
#8 Dec 24th, 2011, 15:26
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O T

Nick - not just Victorian Engineers.

I read somewhere that the British cranes installed at Kandla port in the 60's were specified to last for 10 yrs.

They were finally wrecked by the 1997 cyclone.

The replacement (German?) cranes barely outlived their warrantee...
#9 Dec 25th, 2011, 03:42
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....Kerala's assurance that the supply of water to TN would not be interrupted. The safety of the people in Kerala is vital: the supply of water to TN is also vital.
I fear there's an issue here.. How reliable is this? I wonder for how long these words hold good. Two adjacent dams always calls for trouble, especially for the one downstream..
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#10 Dec 25th, 2011, 10:50
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Mullapperiyar.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick-H View Post ...
I'm not arguing, but I think there was a tendency then to massively over-engineer. An architect once told me that they thought that the builders of Victorian England would be astonished to find their houses still standing after so long.

I'm not going to join the throng of pretend-to-be-experts on this ... but I wonder how long dams last in the rest of the world?
I agree with you 100% . Here there are some technical issues which only technical and scientific analysis can answer.Eg. the matter regarding damage due to earthquake etc.-there are enough equipments to understand the present condition of the dam thr' technical analysis. Why not the state govts. with the help of the union govt. appoint a committee of real disintersted technical committee who does not have any vested motives, to find out the present condition and analyse the report without political( I mean partisan) intervention? Without doing this simply the two states are trying to politicise a technical issue and excite the people doing damage to the states. Is there not a single leader in this country who can keep his head above his shoulders instead of keeping it between his legs, I wonder.
#11 Dec 26th, 2011, 16:35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick-H View Post ...
I'm not arguing, but I think there was a tendency then to massively over-engineer.
I think you are right, and, the evidence is there: the dam is still standing even though it should be long gone. The main worry are the tremors and earthquakes that have increased in frequency and intensity.

Quote:
Two adjacent dams always calls for trouble, especially for the one downstream..
There are five possible solutions:

1) Do nothing. This is the solution of the Tamil Nadu Government. Actually, they want the water level increased even more.

2) Lower the water level behind the dam, and build reservoirs in Tamil Nadu to take the excess water. This is, obviously, a very cheap solution, but it may work.

3) Lower the water level behind the dam, build reservoirs in Tamil Nadu, and construct check dams to create some kind of buffer should the dam break.

4) Build a new dam and decommission the old dam. This is the solution of the Kerala Government. The problem with this solution is that it is quite a destructive procedure to build a dam, and a large area of land and forest will be lost. Additionally, dams that are built these days are said to definitely only last for 50 or so years. And the solution doesn't really address the real issue of having a dam in Periyar: the consequence of it breaking is total devastation.

5) Decommission the dam with no replacement measure. Dam experts usually recommend this solution, but it would be impossible for Tamil Nadu to accept, and it would turn a large area of Tamil Nadu into a desert.

After a lot of reading on the issues of dams, and this one in particular, and taking into consideration Tamil Nadu's needs, I think 3) would be economically sensible and reasonably safe. In the longer term, only 4) or 5) will work.
#12 Dec 27th, 2011, 14:45
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#12

Damned by DAM

Quote:
Originally Posted by pundabee View Post I think you are right, and, the evidence is there: the dam is still standing even though it should be long gone. The main worry are the tremors and earthquakes that have increased in frequency and intensity.



There are five possible solutions:

1) Do nothing. This is the solution of the Tamil Nadu Government. Actually, they want the water level increased even more.

2) Lower the water level behind the dam, and build reservoirs in Tamil Nadu to take the excess water. This is, obviously, a very cheap solution, but it may work.

3) Lower the water level behind the dam, build reservoirs in Tamil Nadu, and construct check dams to create some kind of buffer should the dam break.

4) Build a new dam and decommission the old dam. This is the solution of the Kerala Government. The problem with this solution is that it is quite a destructive procedure to build a dam, and a large area of land and forest will be lost. Additionally, dams that are built these days are said to definitely only last for 50 or so years. And the solution doesn't really address the real issue of having a dam in Periyar: the consequence of it breaking is total devastation.

5) Decommission the dam with no replacement measure. Dam experts usually recommend this solution, but it would be impossible for Tamil Nadu to accept, and it would turn a large area of Tamil Nadu into a desert.

After a lot of reading on the issues of dams, and this one in particular, and taking into consideration Tamil Nadu's needs, I think 3) would be economically sensible and reasonably safe. In the longer term, only 4) or 5) will work.
Will our politicians listen to the technical issues and find a reasonable solution without hurting the interests and people of both the states, I wonder.For them it is just another issue to catch the voters.
#13 Dec 27th, 2011, 15:37
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#13
Quote:
2) Lower the water level behind the dam, and build reservoirs in Tamil Nadu to take the excess water. This is, obviously, a very cheap solution, but it may work.

3) Lower the water level behind the dam, build reservoirs in Tamil Nadu, and construct check dams to create some kind of buffer should the dam break.
These two appeal to me...
#14 Dec 27th, 2011, 16:42
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#14
But the river flows to the West, doesn't it? Away from the TN direction.
#15 Dec 27th, 2011, 23:12
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You're right! My bad on getting the Geography wrong.

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