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Airlines operating dangerous Boeing 737 Max 8

#1 Mar 12th, 2019, 17:29
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#1
Due to the scandalous approach of the FAA to wait and see, after a second one of these planes crashed, due to faulty software, as Boeing admits, this topic deserves special attention.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...-airlines.html

"Two American carriers that use the planes heavily — Southwest Airlines and American Airlines — have said they would continue to fly the aircraft. But on Monday, China and Indonesia ordered their airlines to ground all of the Max 8 jets they operate. Singapore and Australia followed suit on Tuesday, banning the Max 8s from their airspace. More than 20 airline companies have taken the aircraft out of service."

Airlines of Indian origin:

SpiceJet 13 planes

Jet Airways 5 planes
#2 Mar 12th, 2019, 18:58
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#2
Not to sure about “ banned from their airspace “ as Fiji Airways are still flying the max 8 into Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne and Adelaide
#3 Mar 12th, 2019, 19:13
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I guess it takes time to implement the new rule. Perhaps those flights were already in the air?...
#4 Mar 12th, 2019, 19:21
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They were quoted as having full confidence in the airworthiness of their 2 planes.
Sounds like one to many cups of cava to me.
#5 Mar 12th, 2019, 23:18
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Time will tell but a bit premature title... The first crash involved an airline with very poor safety record. Regardless, the system in focus for that crash was MCAS which activates only after the flaps are retracted. The Ethiopian plane had climbed about 900 feet when it stopped its ascent and dropped a few hundred feet. At that stage, the pilots would have been gaining speed and only just beginning the process of withdrawing the plane's flaps, panels at the rear of the wings that are extended during takeoff to add lift. So, it is unlikely to be the same cause.

Let's see what the investigation says... Unless you are in the US, you are unlikely to be flying this aircraft given that its airworthiness cert has been withdrawn in several countries or the flights have otherwise been grounded... But, it should be noted that the 'dangerous aircraft' flies (or flied) about 8,500 flights a week (about 500,000 flights in total) - 2 of which did not land gently (out of which one should not have been permitted to fly by maintenance and).

On the other hand - the FAA (US) has indicated a mandatory software (MCAS?) update by the end of April, tacitly acknowledging some issue emerging from the Indonesian crash. One does get the feeling that Boeing is not being very forthcoming. The conduct of FAA (not the NTSB), unfortunately, balances safety with other considerations such as costs, politics, and so on - and acts with a greater timidity than I'd like to see.
#6 Mar 13th, 2019, 00:47
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#6
Time will tell, provided Boeing and the FAA want it telling, that is...

Latest:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-47536502


Ed.
#7 Mar 13th, 2019, 07:57
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#7
Meanwhile India has acted (along with Europe):

India grounds Boeing 737 Max 8 planes after Ethiopian Airlines crash


If the incidents had happened with Airbus planes, the U.S. would have grounded the affected planes immediately. It is just plain hypocrisy, how these policing American authorities judge and act. That also goes for the FDA.
#8 Mar 13th, 2019, 08:47
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Not hypocrisy but simple capitalism/corruption in action. Boeing is one of the bigger beneficiaries of the military industrial complex and is in bed with the US government and certainly some important politicians and bureaucrats on both sides of the fence in all kinds of internal and external deals. Wasn't there a report about Hillary's kinda shady links to B a few years ago? Doubt she is the only one.
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This is computer generated drivel. No signature is required.
#9 Mar 13th, 2019, 11:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atala View Post ...
If the incidents had happened with Airbus planes, the U.S. would have grounded the affected planes immediately. It is just plain hypocrisy, how these policing American authorities judge and act. That also goes for the FDA.
While I agree with the hypocrisy of the US authorities, I don't think the US grounding the Airbus immediately part. European regulators aren't too shy about fleecing the US tech companies either.

That aside, I have little confidence in the integrity of the FAA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by capt_mahajan ...
Not hypocrisy but simple capitalism/corruption in action. Boeing is one of the bigger beneficiaries of the military industrial complex and is in bed with the US government and certainly some important politicians and bureaucrats on both sides of the fence in all kinds of internal and external deals. Wasn't there a report about Hillary's kinda shady links to B a few years ago? Doubt she is the only one.
Agree with you on Boeing, but don't think Airbus is any different. Both are partially funded by the governments. And, corruption is not far behind given the deal sizes - for either company...

Don't know what Hillary could offer Boeing but she or Bill haven't been averse to shady...
#10 Mar 13th, 2019, 11:08
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For sure, Airbus too.

On Hillary, random google result

Quote:
During the periods when Secretary Clinton was pushing governments to sign deals with Boeing, the aerospace company provided financial support to help her achieve a major foreign-policy goal. Boeing also donated more than $1 million to the Clinton family’s global foundation set up by her husband, former President Clinton, and sponsored speeches that paid him six-figure sums.
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...ned-the-favor/

PS: In short, business as usual. Even corruption is more classy out there.. Foundations, speeches, book deals et al. In India they just take the money.
#11 Mar 13th, 2019, 11:11
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#11
That unfortunately is par for the course in the US politics. While Hilly and Billy were masters at this art, it is practiced widely across the board. City, State and Federal level, unfortunately.
#12 Mar 13th, 2019, 12:19
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Just completed 4 trips on such, not dead yet. Just another non-tariff restriction of the EU against Americano competition, revenge for the failure of the Airbus 380..
#13 Mar 13th, 2019, 12:36
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I think the pilot flying Lion air in the first 737 crash in Indonesia was Indian national. I remember reading it was pilot's fault and boeing remained silent when it happened.

Now after second crash of the same model, Boeing was under intense scrutiny and they released notification that there will be an immediate software upgrade to make 737 more safer and all pilots will be given more training for this model.

I felt something was fishy about Boeing's silence after the first crash.
Last edited by Halwa; Mar 13th, 2019 at 14:23..
#14 Mar 13th, 2019, 13:11
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Sorry, but that’s not very factual. Boeing has been more than sloppy with this aircraft - and seems to have put profits ahead of safety. Deserve the hit they are getting.

But, the training, the manual issue and the software changes precede the latest crash - and result from the Lion Air crash investigation, for which the official report has yet to be released. The software upgrade has not been released but promised for April (but in the works following the Lion Air investigation). The aircraft is not 787 but 737 8MAX. Sticking a bit closer to facts might be better.
#15 Mar 13th, 2019, 14:21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmalik View Post Sorry, but that’s not very factual.Sticking a bit closer to facts might be better.
What exactly is not factual and what are the facts?.

I've mentioned what I've read in Boeing's notification yesterday that the software upgrade meant for April will be pushed forward to make this model "more safer" than it currently is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmalik View Post The aircraft is not 787 but 737 8MAX
Aware of that. Fixed the typo for you.

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