Relationship advice

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#16 Jul 12th, 2012, 16:36
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#16
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Originally Posted by Big Daddy View Post Virgi:

I don't think your BF's parents are at fault. It is your BF that puts up with their crap. His parents are running his life and he is OK with it. With my parents, I never listened. Call me a rebel but my life is much better that way. With my parents, well I have not talked to them in 4 years. Adults have to learn to draw boundaries and if parents don't listen then cut them off from your life.
I agree 100% with what you say. Perhaps because I was blessed with amazingly wise parents, I have spent a lot of time wondering why parents and offspring put up with so much from each other. Stick with your friends, being related does not mean being friends, no, blood is not "thicker than water."

But I grew up in UK, you, I assume, grew up in USA. The 1960s didn't happen in India. In this instance, the guy has to fight not only his family, but the community he lives in and grew up with, which will entirely support the repressive parental attitude and may, indeed, punish the parents if they give in.

We can blame the guy, but most of us probably can't conceive of the pressures, including physical restraint, that might be brought to bear.

Is this all of India? No, of course it isn't. Quite a few IMers live in multi-national relationships. Many Indians are prepared to stand against the pressures of caste and family It's happening, there are successes. As mentioned above, I know of one.

Quote:
It may sound an aggressive approach, but it works for me and actually made me happier and successful in life.

I hate to say this, but you are at fault too because you are trying to compromise too much. This thing should not have gone this way for so long. Relationships are two way streets, you should have demanded attention from your BF early on. If you keep on compromising 100% then you will get problems in your next relationship as well.
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#17 Jul 13th, 2012, 02:08
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#17
Sama: red flags? Im not sure if i explained myself at that. I don’t want him to change, but the situation. I do believe people don’t change, you are right there. But in this case, I really understand what he’s feeling, if she was my mom, I would probably have a hard time deciding… But thank you, I know what you mean and you actually are very right, he was the one to decide.. that was not right, but I don’t think there was any other way..

Sifar Grover: thank you, God bless you too

Vickey1729: yes.. I wish he does.. it’s only that I don’t know how or if I should give him some space or what…. I’m so confused…

Zzzz: at times I do think that at least I wont have so many complications with his mom.. at times that gives me hope to find someone else Thank you

Big Daddy: yes, I don’t endorse his decision, I think he is making a big mistake and that it will define all his life now… But then again, I know he is doing this because of his parents situation. Which is not a real reason, of course, but he feels guilty as he is all his mom has… Somehow I can understand him. I know in the end its up to him, I don’t forget that though. About getting his attention and so… I have had an amazingly beautiful relationship with him, this has happened in a matter of weeks. And we were engaged, how can someone not compromise 100% with the person that’s going to marry with?

Montaintamer: yes, also he needs to move away from her, even if its not for me. She had tried some other times years ago, it’s a shame a mother can do that to her son… As he has told me, in the end, their problem was they had not chosen for him… they wouldn’t have even liked a girl from the same caste and all..
Nik-H: yes…. Its not only his cultural background, but how he has been raised, how his parents use him.. and his personality as he is an extremely generous, caring and self sacrificing man (I’ve seen that in so many things, not only in what has happened these days), and his mother attempts and situation… plus all the lies… if it had only been his extended family or caste pressure, we would be fine…

Maybe he will still make a stand…
Thanks to all, really...
#18 Jul 13th, 2012, 02:42
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#18
Well, perhaps I could offer you this out of my little box of sayings: the success of a relationship is not necessarily defined by how long it lasts.

Still, that doesn't make endings good, nor does it make them instant. It takes time, and during the first part of that time, we go on hoping, not letting go.

I think that, in the face of your strong feelings, you are still managing to mostly think clearly. Keep it up.

Group hug -->
#19 Jul 14th, 2012, 23:27
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#19
Hi Nick,

actually that's what brings me more peace, to know that we really and trully loved eachother, and that it was real and our spearation is not caused by a problem between us.

Some times, that makes me crazy though, as it's hard for me to understand how that wasnt enough, I guess because i can't understand how his family can put their reputation before his son's happiness, even to the point of threating our lifes. It will be a matter of time I guess.
Still as i have that feeling that things are goig to change...

I'm trying to keep my balance Thank you so much for your support

#20 Jul 14th, 2012, 23:32
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#20
Virgi, I'm afraid that there is a lot of it about, and likely to be so for a very long time yet. You've realised that it is not just about you not being Indian.

I'd say, time heals --- but that never sounds helpful at the time. Only afterwards, when we realise that it has done.
#21 Jul 15th, 2012, 00:06
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#21
Virgi , from all that I've read so far and as a South Indian man who understands family stuff like this, the best thing for you is to MOVE ON! It may hurt now and for little while longer, eventually both of you'll get over it. This seems to be the best thing you can do for yourself and your BF . He doesn't seem to be the kind who can be happy without his family connections !
#22 Jul 15th, 2012, 07:28
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#22
Virgi chiquilla... que yo te respondería en español que sería más fácil pero como el forito este es en inglés... in India you are not educated to an individual despite the individualistic this society is. A person never belongs to him/herself: there are the parents, the is the extended family, the community, the whole society. Concentric circles with no way out. When you get into that kind of situation either you happen to be with an extremely independent guy who has been raised on a liberal open-minded family or either you will systematically face situations like the one you are facing now. And believe me guapa, I know what I'm talking about.
I love India and I think I know it more or less after traveling there for work and studies every year for six months from 2002 up to this date. It is a society where hypocrisy rules. Everybody is doing everything but nobody accepts it. So when somebody, like your boyfriend, comes out and stands for what he wants... all his entourage will be ready to mash him and his will... "how you dare"? "Your parents know what is better for you". "What is this foreign girl thing?". "She will betray you, she will be not a good mother for your children... she will take you away from your mama". And they will use whatever they can to take back home the mad goat.
Solutions? He has to take a choice and you too. He either decides to step out from that vicious circle and be with you or simply forget about it. If he decides to stay by your side, there will always be time to go back to visit the old folks, with the first grand child maybe. And you better be prepared: Indian mothers are capable to set their selves on fire. Is war and better to know it. Que yo he pasado por ahí, con sus variaciones. Pero sé lo que te digo. Good luck.
#23 Jul 15th, 2012, 17:46
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#23
@ vagabundo

could you please translate what your wrote above that was not in English?

@ Nick

you have given a great advice about "time"

@ Virgi

Like we say in Hindi "suno sabki, karo apne mann ki".....listen to everyone but do as your mind says......I hope and I wish that boy and you be together for all your life and his family accepts you with all their heart.
#24 Jul 15th, 2012, 18:14
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#24
@Dek, you are right... it is like when in Bollywood movies they leave full sentences in English. Is was on purpose, but here we go: "Virgi, dear girl I'd rather answer you in Spanish but this forum is in English so [...]"
"guapa" = pretty of mine
"been there, with my own variations... I know what I'm saying".

That is it
#25 Jul 16th, 2012, 12:53
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#25
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Originally Posted by Virgi View Post Hello,

Im Virginia from Spain. I posted this in some other forum, but i'm actually quite.. desperate about it, and was hoping that maybe people from India, or who live in India could help me find some way if there is...

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post it though

This is about my boyfriend, he is from south india, from a place near Salem, 27 and only has one sister. His family, obviously is very big though.
Dear Virginia,

Being in a similar situation ( my partner is spanish) im Indian, i can understand your concerns, and you have my wishes.

The whole / Caste / Creed / Family / Relatives can be quiet tiring from your point of view as much as his.

Add to that his mom's constant attempt to " keep him in line "with her wishes is nothing short of coercion in a subtle way.

I would say give it time, his family is complicated and they have their own issues to sort out, you should not be caught in the middle of that.

It would be unfair to ask your guy to choose between you and his mother (assuming that he is madly in love with you) as this whole sense of responsibility and social norms are complicated in the Indian context.

So if i could give any advice that would be this :
  • Visit India as a friend, you need not stay at their place, let them meet you in person and know you, they may realize that people are the same, even if one is from other part of the world.
  • Talk to your guy and ask him to take a decision that he feels is best for him, it is better for both of you if you end up to-gather where it was " his " decision, else otherwise too it will be his decision.
  • Talk to his mom, and tell her/make her realize that she is meddling/messing up with two peoples life who are actually in love ( assuming that you both are ), and that you both would have to drift apart because of her adamant nature (if she realizes this good, else make your decision and move on)
  • So in the end, you will feel that you gave it a try, fought for it and did your best, then if it still doesn't work and your guy wants to stick onto being coerced by his mom, don't bother you make your choices he makes his.
  • Be careful not to get sucked into all this emotional blackmailing and be firm, not rude.

So, this is what i think can be a way out, i wish you best of luck, think and decide what is best for you first, your guy next ,and rest of the world later (if you care).
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" True love means the fight has disappeared, the two have become one. Their bodies exist separately but their being has mingled. The boundaries are lost, there is no division. There is no ‘I’ and no ‘thou’, no one exists" - Osho
#26 Jul 16th, 2012, 13:48
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#26
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Originally Posted by vagabundo View Post Que yo he pasado por ahí, con sus variaciones. Pero sé lo que te digo. Good luck.
Pero Senor, Is similar in Latina culture too; I do not know how it is in Espana; The Puertoricans, the dominicano, the cubano all have stratification - the Taino, the mestizos; not to talk about the mayans in mehico, the issues are as complex as in India. I dont have to talk about Argentine portenos...

But, you are right. Much of what you see as an outsider is same, as I as an extranjero, feel that you don't have a relación with your novio or novia; but the whole family and in small villages - the whole village !!! Either you fit in or you dont have a chance to succeed.

The indian situation is rooted in centuries of uninterrupted social and cultural tradition, while here the mestizo brew is so different from country to country, island to island.

I have not lived in Espana to comment comparatively. The Meso/Sur Americano latina culture is structurally similar to Indian in many ways.

Warning !!!! Foreign language NC17 material ahead. Religious and underage folks please do not click !!!Talk about family intervention !!!
#27 Jul 16th, 2012, 20:28
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#27
@nycank Every culture has its own idiosyncrasies... I do not see your point, is it maybe "everybody is wrong so nobody is"?
I am not familiar with south american culture but coming to Spain... We stop having this kind of issues. I think it has a lot to do with our recent history. We normally want to know the other, to learn from the other. Then in India itself I know a couple: the parents of two of my best friends... the mother belong to one of the highest brahminic cast and the father is muslim so, according to hinduism, they are nothing. What I wanted to say is that their parents were brave enough to face what they had to face in middle 60s, and I bet it wasn't easy. And also wanted to point out that Virgi's case is not about east-west culture clash, at all.
#28 Jul 16th, 2012, 20:59
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#28
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Originally Posted by vagabundo View Post @nycank Every culture has its own idiosyncrasies... I do not see your point, is it maybe "everybody is wrong so nobody is"?
I don't think that's the point at all !
Quote:
Originally Posted by vagabundo View Post Then in India itself I know a couple: the parents of two of my best friends... the mother belong to one of the highest brahminic cast and the father is muslim so, according to hinduism, they are nothing.
Where did you find out that according to Hinduism they are nothing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vagabundo View Post ....... And also wanted to point out that Virgi's case is not about east-west culture clash, at all.
Its not , I don't think anyone said it was and it would be exactly the same situation, if not very similar, had the girl been Indian( though the reasons given would be different) and the family disapproved for some reason!
#29 Jul 16th, 2012, 21:31
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#29
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Originally Posted by vagabundo View Post And also wanted to point out that Virgi's case is not about east-west culture clash, at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vagabundo View Post And believe me guapa, I know what I'm talking about. .

"What is this foreign girl thing?". "She will betray you, she will be not a good mother for your children... she will take you away from your mama".
Either it is about East-West, or it is not ? You can't argue both ways and claim to have knowledge based on your observation, can you ?

I do not know, where the OP met her BF ? Cruise ship ? working together ? in Spain ?

If you are making the case that this is cultural, then I pointed that it happens in all cultures. The "otherness" of the choice that a son or daughter makes comes up, more in some cultures, less in others. But it does nonetheless

Mothers criticize the choices sons make of their mates - That is what drives so many sitcoms worldwide, and it resonates colloquially to generate cheap laughs.

From Brooklyn to Belagrano, from Westchester to Wampoa, from Salem to Santiago its same same...
#30 Jul 16th, 2012, 21:36
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#30
@happyhippy THEY told me... in fact the girl went trough a very hardcore born again muslim phase in reaction to her rejection by the hindu establishment. I am talking about people that have become part of my family.
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