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#1 Nov 17th, 2013, 15:18
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  • nicholast10 is offline
#1
I am looking for information on a village in Hyderabad.

The only information I have is Goonjeetee, Monglye, Hyderabad.

I am not sure if the names are correctly written.

Do you know of any authority, website or person who could help me?
#2 Nov 17th, 2013, 15:37
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  • adam00121 is offline
#2
nope, not proper names of any areas in hyderabad. can you say where you came across the names?

most names are words in one language or other, and have meanings. the words you are saying are not proper words at all, in the languages that are used for naming places in hyderabad.

and unless you get a proper spelling, or some other data (like some landmarks etc), it would be impossible for anyone to help you.
#3 Nov 17th, 2013, 16:27
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#3
hi. thank you for your reply. in fact the information i have is:

zillah: hyderabad
pergunnah: monglye
village: goonjeetee

must be from the period of 1864
#4 Nov 18th, 2013, 10:18
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#4
all place names are proper words in some langauge. in ancient times, like BC times, or earlarabic/y AD, sanskrit names were used, then came other languages, then arabic/persian/urdu/hindi/local languages. Or english names.

in all cases, the place names were proper words, and meant something. The names you are giving are not proper words in any of the languages used to name places in india.

while there are names of places that start with the first letter you are using in each case,it fails right at the second letter.

And to top it off, there is a hyderabad in pakistan too. Would you think it might perhaps be from there? I a not sure of the source of the words, like is this from some book, or someone wrote it (and you are not reading properly, because handwriting is not very clear), or from something else. you are mentioning the period, year 1864, but not from where you got those names.

It is normal for a place name to change over time, but it always changes to something meaningful, never a random collection of letters, which is what the pergunnah, and village names are. or they are in some dialect i just don't know, like tribal names. but hyderabad was using arabic/persian/urdu during the year you mention, and most place names during that era are names of people who were living in the town or had some connection to it.

Do you mind if i ask you what the purpose of this search is? if you can mention it, please do.
#5 Nov 18th, 2013, 12:17
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#5
Hi. thank you for your reply. in fact it is for an ancestors search. the information i have is on a certificate of landing from a ship. my g-g-g-mother came from india. port of embarkation was bombay and she reached mauritius, indian ocean on feb 1864. as you mentioned, it might be written in another language and the places probably changed name. and i guess there were also some typing mistakes in there. what would be according to you, the places in Hyderabad which come close to the names i mentioned? i could search these to start and with some luck, find what i am looking for. thank you anyway for all your help.
#6 Nov 18th, 2013, 12:30
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#6
nicholas, is it possible for you to take a picture of just that part of the certificate you have that states the names, and post it here? if it is typed out the way you spell it, that would be useless, but if it is written, i am hoping we can perhaps guess at some alternate names. i still am hoping that the names are of proper places, and not made upthemselves, who know what the situation was then.
the names you are mentioning are not proper names of any area, and to list place names that start with the first letter is almost impossible, too many, and will be very incomplete.
not sure if you can find any old census records online, of years before 1864, if they even exist. that might be an easier approach. in case of hindu names, family name would be a pointer to start from. you could even search on facebook or google with the name, and something might pop up.
if you are christian, some churches might also keep records of local people, but not sure how you would be able to access them at all without knowing the place first, sort of a catch-22.
i will see if there is any way to find some records of that period.
#7 Nov 18th, 2013, 15:18
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#7
Done. your help is very much appreciated. thank you.
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#8 Nov 18th, 2013, 15:20
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#8
a better view with dates.
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#9 Nov 18th, 2013, 15:41
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  • thisisbalu is offline
#9
now hyderabad zilla is not there, the adress might be some where in telangana, maharastra, , karnataka,
the second line would be pergunnah: mandal instead of pergunnah: monglye
#10 Nov 18th, 2013, 15:49
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#10
sorry for my above post
pergunnah: monglye means the adminstrators are moghals in that village
#11 Nov 18th, 2013, 16:01
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#11
and they divided them into paragans
u can get better info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pergunnah
as i stated above the village may be in maharastra , karnataka or in telangana region of andhra pradesh
if u know the mother tongue of ur grand parents ,or names(may be usefull) it will be easy to find
#12 Nov 18th, 2013, 16:13
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#12
thanks for the images, i was hoping it was handwriting, so it could be re-interpreted. The typed one has no chance of that.

Not sure if you can trust the hyderabad connection either, so i am including some other links.

wikipedia has a map of what used to be old hyderabad state
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyderabad_State
check the languages spoken in that area, and you will understand some of the history of place names.

don't think this way of searching would help. perhaps these sites might have more information on how you could go about with the search..I can think of shipping records, census records, and ancestry records as a source of information.

http://www.mgirti.org/facilties/mgi-...tors-pio-.html <- this could be the most convenient for you to use
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/galleri...n/colonies.htm
http://www.lemauricien.com/article/1...ured-labourers
http://www.iias.nl/iiasn/iiasn4/iswasia/archive.txt
http://www.up-tourism.com/roots.htm

or if there is anything on the mauritius archives, that would be easier for you to locate. there definitely needs to be some additional documentation somewhere though.
#13 Nov 18th, 2013, 16:27
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#13
EDIT: Cross-posted with Adam and thisisbalu

Nicholas and Adam,

If I can make some observations.

Zillah is District, and Pargana an administrative area within the district; Village I think we know what that is. The first question is, in 1864, what did Hyderabad 'district' mean, when it could be the walled city, or it could mean the State that lay outside the walls? Presumably you are looking for somewhere outside of the city.

Nicholas - you need to be cognisant of Hyderbad's history to find what you are looking for. I am not the expert you need - however you should keep in mind that Hyderabad as a "State" or a "Principality" (as it would have been in 1864) was redistributed in an 'odd' way at the time Hyderabad State joined India (some years after independence). In modern day terms, it is partly in Andhra Pradesh, partly in Maharashtra, and partly in Karnataka.

Hyderabad had several divisions (don't rely on my spelling here) - Aurangabad; Warangal; Gulbarga; Gulshanabad (aka Medak) which explains the redistribution.

If you are prepared to go trawling, then have a look at the Census of Villages http://pmgsy.nic.in/census-code.asp You'll need to download and search the list for each of the three States, to be really thorough about it.

As for the place-names themselves, they have almost certainly changed. The other thing to consider is this: On arrival, the person taking the details might hear a name in a broad accent with which they are unfamiliar, and write it phonetically as they hear it, in their language. So, you aren't looking for "goonjeetee" but somewhere that might sound like goonjeetee to a unfamiliar ear. Gunjiti for instance. I have just invented that name, but perhaps you can see how it could be heard and transliterated as "goonjeetee"? And the spelling of Indian place-names, even today, in the Roman alphabet, is a bit hit and miss.

The other source documents to look for are old maps of Hyderabad; such as would be found in an old Gazeteer, the British would have published several of a long period of time.

Also, histories of Hyderabad; especially government and municipal histories, which are more likely to record place names.

Good luck, and do let us know how it goes.


EDIT: Here's a digitised gazeteer - fascinating reading - but I don't have time for it all. There are just over 20,000 villages in Hyderabad State, so you have your work cut out for you.

http://dsal.uchicago.edu/reference/g...34_V13_233.gif
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#14 Nov 18th, 2013, 17:18
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#14
I am not sure if the document itself is accurate or dependable. Not sure what the conditions then were, but it would be mighty tempting to just write something against every column provided on the form, an how could anyone verify the accuracy of that information?

interesting task nevertheless.
#15 Nov 18th, 2013, 17:46
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#15
Adam, I think we can rely on the ship's manifest / passenger list / landing list; notwithstanding my caution above about the difference between what was said, what was heard, and what was written down. The Brits in India and in Mauritius would have taken this very seriously.
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