Guide to getting Stay visa for child born in India to foreign passport holder

#1 Apr 3rd, 2018, 23:36
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  • switchroo is offline
#1
I am Australian Citizen. My wife is Indian citizen and my son was born in Gujarat, India in 2016. I applied for his Australian citizenship in November 2017 and got approval in December. Then I applied for his passport which I got in March. Within 14 days I applied for his India stay visa online at frro site selecting https://indianfrro.gov.in/frro/menufrrodoc.jsp.

After online appliation, we have to get the printout of application with following documents.
1. Birth Certificate
2. Child's passport
3. Both parents' passport
4. OCI card
5. Address proof
6. Child's passport photo
7. Request letter. (My son/daughter, [Insert name of child], was born in India and is a [insert country here] national. I have recently received his [country] passport dated [date].
I kindly request you to grant her/him India stay visa.)

If address proof is not under your name, ID of the owner of the house. and an undertaking letter from owner, stating that he takes all responsibility of child while s/he is in india.

I DID NOT have to go to New Delhi FRRO.
The fees were Rs. 7800 for 1 year stay visa.
To pay challan/fees you have to go to SBI Bank in Laldarvaja, Ahmedabad, which is 5 KMS from FRRO.

The visa was granted by Ahmedabad FRRO. They did NOT send application to Delhi MHA. Overall it took 3 days to get 1 year stay visa from appication date.
#2 Apr 6th, 2018, 00:02
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#2
Your detailed post will help many people I'm sure! Thanks.
#3 Apr 6th, 2018, 23:11
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Why not apply for the Indian passport as well? Your child has the right to involuntary dual citizenship, with Indian citizenship being one. Such a child - with dual citizenship - will have to make a decision about the citizenship (as India does not allow voluntary dual citizenship) at the age of 18.
#4 Apr 7th, 2018, 20:44
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#4
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmalik View Post Why not apply for the Indian passport as well? Your child has the right to involuntary dual citizenship, with Indian citizenship being one. Such a child - with dual citizenship - will have to make a decision about the citizenship (as India does not allow voluntary dual citizenship) at the age of 18.
Are you sure?

Quote:
Any citizen of India who by naturalization, registration or otherwise voluntarily acquires, or has at any time between the 26th January, 1950 and the commencement of this Act, voluntarily acquired the citizenship of another country shall, upon such acquisition or, as the case may be, such commencement, cease to be a citizen of India.
Quote:
The fact that a citizen of India has obtained on any date a passport from the Government of any other country shall be conclusive proof of his having voluntarily acquired the citizenship of that country before that date.
From:

https://indiancitizenshiponline.nic....nstruction.pdf

Read together, having a foreign passport automatically disqualifies a person of any age from holding an Indian passport simultaneously.
#5 Apr 8th, 2018, 00:47
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#5
You may start by reading the document you posted.
  • Section 1. The child is an Indian citizen based on both by birth and by the fact that one of his/her parents is an Indian citizen.
  • Section 2. He/she has not forfeited the Indian citizenship by voluntarily acquiring another (Australian) citizenship, key word being voluntarily.
  • Section 3. The child is not of full age and capacity to renounce the Indian citizenship.
  • Section 5. "In determining whether a citizen of India has or has not voluntarily acquired the citizenship of any other country...". The child is /is eligible to be an involuntary citizen of India. He/she may retain such status until reaching the full age and capacity.

The right of the child to an Indian citizenship and ability to hold it until the age of 18 is completely without dispute. The passport is simply an identification document for a citizen, not a determinant of the citizenship itself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multip...le_citizenship

"The Constitution of India does not permit dual citizenship or dual nationality, except for minors where the second nationality was involuntarily acquired. Indian authorities interpreted this to mean a person cannot have another country's passport while simultaneously holding an Indian one, even for a child claimed by another country as its citizen, who may be required by the laws of this country to use the corresponding passports for foreign travel (such as a child born in the United States to Indian parents). Indian courts have given the executive branch wide discretion over this matter."

So, there might be some hassle involved around passports, but it's not clear. In general, most countries restrict the dual citizens to enter and remain in the country - without recognizing their alternate citizenship. In other words, India would not want such involuntary dual citizen from entering, remaining or using consular access as Australian citizen. Similarly, Australia would not want to treat the child as an Indian.

I am not a lawyer, but am surprised how the parents simply surrender the citizenship right of the minor children without much consideration.
#6 Apr 8th, 2018, 07:32
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#6
This is getting very off topic now. The bottom line is, holding a valid Australian passport disqualifies a person from applying for an Indian passport. All the information provided in the above posts agree on this point, including the last lengthy post by kmalik.
#7 Apr 8th, 2018, 10:24
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#7
I am not entirely clear what or who makes you the arbiter of facts or relevance here.

There are immigration-focused forums with better informed discussion and advice on this topic. It is indisputable per the Indian constitution that a minor (as mentioned in this thread) may be a legal dual citizen of India, should such right be asserted.

See the post below where FRRO explicitly permitted the poster's minor child to keep an Indian and foreign passport.

https://www.immihelp.com/forum/showt...Dual-Passports
#8 Apr 13th, 2018, 20:36
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#8
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmalik View Post Why not apply for the Indian passport as well? Your child has the right to involuntary dual citizenship, with Indian citizenship being one. Such a child - with dual citizenship - will have to make a decision about the citizenship (as India does not allow voluntary dual citizenship) at the age of 18.
On the issue of minors holding 2 passports I got 2 different answers from 2 Indian authorities. The FRRO said it is ok, but a very high ranking official at the Regional Passport Office said this is not ok when I went to surrender their Indian passports.
Yes, the minor has the right to claim either citizenship and has to choose one over the other when they turn 18. However the minor cannot hold 2 passports and hope to clear Indian immigration.- As told to me by the RPO offcial in person.
If you recollect the Devyani Khobragade diplomat case, her children were having US and Indian passports. The court declared that their Indian passports were invalid.
This is definitely a grey area. Its just better to go for the foreign passport with OCI status until Indian allows dual citizenship.
#9 Apr 13th, 2018, 21:12
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#9
Thank you! Appreciate you taking my point seriously...

I still think it is not right for the parents to forfeit what is constitutionally a right of the child to decide when of full age and capacity. I do not think that "...the minor cannot hold 2 passports and hope to clear Indian immigration" is the right way to look at it. The way it works is that whenever a dual citizen enters or exits in one of the countries of his/her citizenship, he/she uses the passport of that country. And, the dual citizen's status in the country it simply that of a citizen. When the dual citizen visits a third country - he/she can use either passport. So, the dual citizen child exiting India will be exiting as an Indian citizen going abroad.

I think the Indian parents often value the citizenship of the Western countries more highly over Indian citizenship and give up the child's right to make the decision when of age without putting any real value on it.
#10 Apr 14th, 2018, 01:58
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#10
Quote:
Originally Posted by switchroo View Post I am Australian Citizen. My wife is Indian citizen and my son was born in Gujarat, India in 2016. I applied for his Australian citizenship in November 2017 and got approval in December. Then I applied for his passport which I got in March. Within 14 days I applied for his India stay visa online at frro site selecting https://indianfrro.gov.in/frro/menufrrodoc.jsp.

After online appliation, we have to get the printout of application with following documents.
1. Birth Certificate
2. Child's passport
3. Both parents' passport
4. OCI card
5. Address proof
6. Child's passport photo
7. Request letter. (My son/daughter, [Insert name of child], was born in India and is a [insert country here] national. I have recently received his [country] passport dated [date].
I kindly request you to grant her/him India stay visa.)

If address proof is not under your name, ID of the owner of the house. and an undertaking letter from owner, stating that he takes all responsibility of child while s/he is in india.

I DID NOT have to go to New Delhi FRRO.
The fees were Rs. 7800 for 1 year stay visa.
To pay challan/fees you have to go to SBI Bank in Laldarvaja, Ahmedabad, which is 5 KMS from FRRO.

The visa was granted by Ahmedabad FRRO. They did NOT send application to Delhi MHA. Overall it took 3 days to get 1 year stay visa from appication date.
I am curious why you did not apply for an OCI (or PIO while it was still available)?
#11 Apr 14th, 2018, 02:25
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#11
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmalik View Post Thank you! Appreciate you taking my point seriously...

I still think it is not right for the parents to forfeit what is constitutionally a right of the child to decide when of full age and capacity. I do not think that "...the minor cannot hold 2 passports and hope to clear Indian immigration" is the right way to look at it. The way it works is that whenever a dual citizen enters or exits in one of the countries of his/her citizenship, he/she uses the passport of that country. And, the dual citizen's status in the country it simply that of a citizen. When the dual citizen visits a third country - he/she can use either passport. So, the dual citizen child exiting India will be exiting as an Indian citizen going abroad.

I think the Indian parents often value the citizenship of the Western countries more highly over Indian citizenship and give up the child's right to make the decision when of age without putting any real value on it.
I think parents have to consider what may be best for the child/family. It is not necessarily valuing one citizenship over another. I will say - as a wife who has applied for too many travel visas for her Indian husband - that I would never think it's better/easier for my daughter to have Indian citizenship and have to deal with all that, especially since she no longer lives in India and there are no future plans to return. (Of course - as I see it - there are other benefits to her being a U.S. citizen, not just the travel aspect.) Once she turns 18 if she so desires she can obtain Indian citizenship. Until then an OCI will suffice. (Several people in authority have told me that there is no dual citizenship for India. I do believe them. If you have an Indian passport you cannot have any other passport at the same time.)
#12 Apr 14th, 2018, 13:32
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#12

Guide to getting Stay visa for child born in India to foreign passport holder

Only yesterday I read some traveller's blog where he spoke of his pride in being Indian, but the added difficulty and cost incurred by having an Indian passport. He illustrated it with a map of countries free/simple to visit with a UK passport, compared to an Indian passport.

Apparently there is some site that ranks passports/nationality by "strength" in this respect, and India is somewhat low on the list.

Speaking as an adult foreigner living in India, citizenship possibility is certainly on my list. But if I could still afford regular flying, it would be lower on the list than it is. And, I suppose, if I were even considering living in any other country, it might be off the list
~
Life gets aadhar every day.
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#13 Apr 15th, 2018, 00:19
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#13
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf80 View Post On the issue of minors holding 2 passports I got 2 different answers from 2 Indian authorities. The FRRO said it is ok, but a very high ranking official at the Regional Passport Office said this is not ok when I went to surrender their Indian passports.
Yes, the minor has the right to claim either citizenship and has to choose one over the other when they turn 18. However the minor cannot hold 2 passports and hope to clear Indian immigration.- As told to me by the RPO offcial in person.
If you recollect the Devyani Khobragade diplomat case, her children were having US and Indian passports. The court declared that their Indian passports were invalid.
This is definitely a grey area. Its just better to go for the foreign passport with OCI status until Indian allows dual citizenship.
My daughter was born in March 2016. She got her Indian passport in April 2016 then her Japanese passport in May 2016. The Japanese embassy asked us not use her Indian passport to travel as it can cause complication. Apparently, there was someone with dual citizenship who used his Indian passport to leave India and used his Japanese passport to enter Japan. When he tried to enter India with India passport, he was hit with a huge fine for using 2 passports. (sorry, I don't have all the details). We decided to use her Japanese passport since Japan Govt can't issue a visa to Japanese national. We still have her Indian passport but it's no longer required since we got OCI in Dec 2016.

So for my daughter, we had no choice but to select her citizenship.
#14 Apr 16th, 2018, 13:06
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#14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pani Puri View Post I am curious why you did not apply for an OCI (or PIO while it was still available)?
In this circumstance you first have to regularise your stay in India by applying for an entry X visa. Then you are eligible to apply for OCI. Lon gterm visa is a mandatory document before you can apply for OCI from within India.
#15 Apr 16th, 2018, 17:47
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#15
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmalik View Post Thank you! Appreciate you taking my point seriously...

I still think it is not right for the parents to forfeit what is constitutionally a right of the child to decide when of full age and capacity. I do not think that "...the minor cannot hold 2 passports and hope to clear Indian immigration" is the right way to look at it. The way it works is that whenever a dual citizen enters or exits in one of the countries of his/her citizenship, he/she uses the passport of that country. And, the dual citizen's status in the country it simply that of a citizen. When the dual citizen visits a third country - he/she can use either passport. So, the dual citizen child exiting India will be exiting as an Indian citizen going abroad.

I think the Indian parents often value the citizenship of the Western countries more highly over Indian citizenship and give up the child's right to make the decision when of age without putting any real value on it.
You're wrong on two counts:

1. Taking a foreign passport does not forfeit a minor's right to take Indian citizenship when of full age and capacity. By the way, what is "full age and capacity?" According to the link you gave, the FRRO said it's 16 years. Not 18. Doesn't that itself give you a clue how clueless that FRRO was? FRRO's and immigration officials are known to talk through their hats at times.

2. "...the minor cannot hold 2 passports and hope to clear Indian immigration" IS the right way of looking at it. Using an Indian passport to travel when you hold a foreign passport WILL incur steep fines. This is a known fact that's happened to lots of people.

So, again, BOTTOM LINE: applied for a foreign passport for your child? Then DON'T TAKE AN INDIAN PASSPORT. What's the point? You can't travel on it. What else is a passport good for?
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