90 day rule overstayed, problems?

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#1 Mar 4th, 2018, 16:39
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  • lotusbaguette is offline
#1
Hello people,

I have been in India for 4 years on different visas (tourism, employment, now tourism again)
When I got my latest visa, I was going through a lot of stuff and, long story short, when I got the sticker in my passport I just noted the validity through April 4th.

Now however, someone recently pointed out that it says "each visit not to exceed 90 days"
As far as I know, this is a new rule, I've never had this on my previous 6 month tourist visas.

The 90 days were up in January, here's March and I'm still here!

We noticed it when filing the paperwork for our marriage certificate (I married my longterm Indian partner last month, yay)

Now I'm freaking out about going to the FRRO to apply for my X visa. My mind is full of questions I hope someone can help me...

- does this 90 day rule mean that I have technically overstayed my visa, though this seems illogical as the visa is valid until April 4th?
- what kind of trouble am i in?
- would it be best to leave in April, return on a new tourist visa and then apply for the X visa?
- is the 90 day rule checked when leaving the country?

All help welcome, I haven't found any other threads related to this specific issue.
#2 Mar 4th, 2018, 17:13
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  • Nick-H is offline
#2
(Welcome! Please post only once: it can be confusing, but pick a thread and stick with it )

Difficult situation, difficult questions!

I don't think anyone can tell you what will happen. You are no longer legally in India, and everything is going to depend on what discretionary powers the FRRO have to regularise/extend your stay and convert your T visa to an X visa, and whether or not they choose to use them.

Yes, you overstayed. Yes, you should be a bit nervous. My guess is that your marriage to an Indian citizen puts you somewhat ahead of the the average solo tourist in the same situation. You and your hubby have to bite the bullet and get to the FRRO. Generally speaking, a lot more can be achieved in the local language than in English. Your man should also be much more able to deal with Indian officials and their demands. I never had any overstay or similar, but still, my Indian wife was very much more effective with the FRRO officials than I could have been alone!

Also, standard forum advice here to anyone with visa problems is to be very apologetic, very respectful, use words like "sir" a lot, and... grovel a bit.
Quote:
would it be best to leave in April
You have overstayed: you should not attempt to leave without getting this sorted out first. It might cost you a flight ticket.
Quote:
return on a new tourist visa and then apply for the X visa?
Why would you do that? Leaving aside the fact that you may have complicated your next visa application by overstaying...

1. You can convert a T visa to an X visa if you just got married here, but probably not on a subsequent visa/visit.

2. Your marriage entitles you to apply for an X visa straight off. Even if it were not for "1," the additional T visa would be a waste.
Quote:
I haven't found any other threads related to this specific issue.
Look for member ViShVa's posts in visa-related threads. He has almost certainly posted links to, and quoted, stuff about powers available to FRO/FRRO.

All the best. Please help there to be threads that do answer these questions by posting your experiences.
~
Life gets aadhar every day.
.
#3 Mar 4th, 2018, 17:16
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#3
Thanks so much for your answer. Another thing that worries is is that my marriage got registered AFTER the 90 day date... Does this mean my marriage is invalid?!
#4 Mar 4th, 2018, 17:30
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  • Nick-H is offline
#4
Quote:
Does this mean my marriage is invalid?!
Whoa! I am not a lawyer... but I don't think so.
#5 Mar 4th, 2018, 17:36
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#5
LOL
India is finicky but I've heard that in the case of marriages even the bureaucrats warm up. So I'm putting all my money on the desi love for shaadi aur romance ;-)
#6 Mar 4th, 2018, 20:17
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#6
My experience as a newly wed applying for an x-visa is almost 20 years old, but I certainly felt they softened up to the helpless little woman thing.

Once you've sorted it out and are applying for another visa, if they try to give you another "90 or 180 days per visit" stipulation, you can say "Oh but I might be pregnant by then, and in no condition to travel!
#7 Mar 4th, 2018, 21:44
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#7
aha very good points that I shall be sure to use :-)
#8 Mar 8th, 2018, 15:58
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  • nycank is offline
#8
Quote:
Originally Posted by lotusbaguette View Post
The 90 days were up in January, here's March and I'm still here!
- what kind of trouble am i in?
- would it be best to leave in April, return on a new tourist visa and then apply for the X visa?
You are in trouble !

Do not ! I emphasise ! Do not ! Leave the country. You will be in a pickle ! This is an era of global disruption w.r.t to visas and out-of-the-ordinary travel issues. From US, to EU to UK to Asia.... C/O (Consular Officers for short) are dusting rarely used memos to their advantage....'
#9 Mar 9th, 2018, 09:40
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#9
"Also, standard forum advice here to anyone with visa problems is to be very apologetic, very respectful, use words like "sir" a lot, and... grovel a bit."


Excellent advice from Nick, as usual.

I was going to say this, but Nick beat me to it.

The FRRO may give you the run around, but remember you have to get it sorted so play along. Don't get pissed off.
Lord, Grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of those people I had to kill because they pissed me off.
#10 Mar 18th, 2018, 11:50
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#10
OK UPDATE
Yeah the FRRO were not cool with my unintentional flouting of the 90 day rule... PLUS since my husband isn't Goan they are questioning whether we can be registered in Goa FRRO at all. Despite my lease and residency permit from the Panchayat, they say husband needs to prove extensive professional ties in Goa for me to be able to convert my visa to X here.

Anyway, considering the increased complexity of the ordeal and the fact my visa expires on April 3rd anyway, I've applied for an exit permit on that date (April 3rd)
I'll fly to Europe and from there apply for the X visa. If not granted, well, Tourist visa it is again and we'll get help from a local lawyer to push the paperwork through.We got the number of a lawyer who (A, has experience with cases like ours and B, knows the notoriously difficult lady at the local FRRO)
TBH I'd much rather get a business visa but having quit my job to move to Goa a while ago we simply cannot show "financial sufficiency" for the duration of the visa. So that's something else we'll have to work towards.

So moral of the story is DO NOT ignore 90 day rule and only marry an Indian if you REALLY REALLY love them because the paperwork is enough to kill any inkling of romance ;-)
#11 Mar 18th, 2018, 12:29
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#11
I'll fly to Europe and from there apply for the X visa. If not granted, well, Tourist visa it is again and we'll get help from a local lawyer to push the paperwork through.We got the number of a lawyer who (A, has experience with cases like ours and B, knows the notoriously difficult lady at the local FRRO)

Make sure he does not cheat you. These days the FRRO is better than before, more things are straight forward.

A lawyer pretending to grease the wheels may just be lining his own pockets.
#12 Mar 18th, 2018, 13:38
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#12
Thanks for the heads up. She's a lawyer recommended by a good friend. She has successfully helped people in our extended network with similar situations.
#13 Mar 18th, 2018, 14:06
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#13
Try to make sure they do not blacklist you for any further visa applications.
#14 Mar 18th, 2018, 16:08
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#14
Quote:
Originally Posted by lotusbaguette View Post OK UPDATE
Yeah the FRRO were not cool with my unintentional flouting of the 90 day rule... PLUS since my husband isn't Goan they are questioning whether we can be registered in Goa FRRO at all. Despite my lease and residency permit from the Panchayat, they say husband needs to prove extensive professional ties in Goa for me to be able to convert my visa to X here.

Anyway, considering the increased complexity of the ordeal and the fact my visa expires on April 3rd anyway, I've applied for an exit permit on that date (April 3rd)
I'll fly to Europe and from there apply for the X visa. If not granted, well, Tourist visa it is again and we'll get help from a local lawyer to push the paperwork through.We got the number of a lawyer who (A, has experience with cases like ours and B, knows the notoriously difficult lady at the local FRRO)
TBH I'd much rather get a business visa but having quit my job to move to Goa a while ago we simply cannot show "financial sufficiency" for the duration of the visa. So that's something else we'll have to work towards.
Thanks for the update. Expected: FRRO not cool with overstay. Hoped: they relent so far as to give you a no-strings exit visa. Confused: Resident permit has nothing to do with panchayat, unless it is some specific permission to live somewhere that non-locals normally cannot, and that would have nothing to do with national immigration status.
Quote:
So moral of the story is DO NOT ignore 90 day rule
People forget... Worst case, the penalty for being an illegal immigrant is imprisonment.

As I understand it, FRRO officers have the power to send you to a cell, or to insist that you leave the country immediately. And airport officers have the power to send you to a cell, or prevent you from leaving the country on the flight you have chosen and paid for.
Quote:
and only marry an Indian if you REALLY REALLY love them because the paperwork is enough to kill any inkling of romance ;-)
lol... It is an exaggeration, with a grain of truth. The fact is that it is probably easier to marry into India than it is to do the same in many other countries. The thing is (my advice) to have the steps understood and lined up from the start. Know what you are entitled to, when, and apply for it at the right time --- and maybe, in the easiest place. Water under the bridge: writing this for future couples who may come by this thread.

My experience, albeit a decade old, and things may have changed: applying for some things is easier outside of India than in*. Married-to-an-Indian? Application for X visa should be simple and routine. No possible reason to refuse you, unless that overstay gets you a black mark.

Also my experience: lawyers and agents will invent difficulties to overcome, otherwise they have no justification for their fee*. You only need a lawyer if you are being denied that to which you have a right and need to escalate the case to higher authorities than the top guy at the FRRO. Otherwise: leave them alone.

My bet: Go to Europe (your "home"/Citizenship country to minimise delays and complications) and you'll return to India with a nice X visa in your passport.



*probably repeating: a lawyer "tried" to get me an X visa in India for several months: I got one in London in ten minutes.
Last edited by Nick-H; Mar 18th, 2018 at 21:34..
#15 Mar 18th, 2018, 17:22
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  • nycank is offline
#15
Quote:
Originally Posted by lotusbaguette View Post OK UPDATE
Anyway, considering the increased complexity of the ordeal and the fact my visa expires on April 3rd anyway, I've applied for an exit permit on that date (April 3rd)
I'll fly to Europe and from there apply for the X visa. If not granted, well, Tourist visa it is again
and we'll get help from a local lawyer to push the paperwork through.We got the number of a lawyer who (A, has experience with cases like ours and B, knows the notoriously difficult lady at the local FRRO)
TBH I'd much rather get a business visa but having quit my job to move to Goa a while ago we simply cannot show "financial sufficiency" for the duration of the visa. So that's something else we'll have to work towards.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nycank View Post Do not ! I emphasise ! Do not ! Leave the country. You will be in a pickle ! This is an era of global disruption w.r.t to visas and out-of-the-ordinary travel issues. From US, to EU to UK to Asia.... C/O (Consular Officers for short) are dusting rarely used memos to their advantage....'
It needs repeating - You cannot play the odds, it matters hill-O-beans what the FRRO says, if your overstay is recorded in IVFRT (“Immigration, Visa and Foreigners Registration & Tracking), the Mission in UK can act on it. Your entry and exit are recorded at the airports into the IVFRT.

FFRO are in most cases reporting to MHA (Ministry of Home Affairs), while applying for visa, the Consular Officers are from MEA (Ministry of External Affairs), as is common world-wide, sometime these two do not see eye-to-eye.



Quote:
and only marry an Indian if you REALLY REALLY love them because the paperwork is enough to kill any inkling of romance ;-)
Are you willing to risk this ? However small your risk, it's still an odd you don't want. Unless You are playing a Russian Roulette.

The person who was blacklisted was married 10. He's now in his home country and his spouse in India !

In the end, YMMV
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