pio refusal

hikkaduwa · Jan 1st, 2009, 18:18

Im also in the process of getting a PIO card. Ive been reading the stories here for a long time and I have similar experiences

. Will post my story when I have my PIO card in hand, hopefully end of next week.

Joseph, did you get it finally?

For everybody who is in the same situation: you are definitely not alone!

Paleface · Jan 1st, 2009, 20:15

Are you applying in Bangalore, or elsewhere? What nationality is your passport?

hikkaduwa · Jan 2nd, 2009, 13:56

Hello Paleface,

Im am from the Netherlands and I am going to apply from the Netherlands.

Paleface · Jan 2nd, 2009, 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by hikkaduwa

Hello Paleface,

Im am from the Netherlands and I am going to apply from the Netherlands.

oh I see, I also am going to start applying soon, but I live in India (XV visa) and am married to an Indian girl.

joseph10 · Jan 8th, 2009, 21:59

If i finally got it i promised to tell.

Last what i understood from Delhi is that the verification-papers got stuck somewhere between Delhi and Tamil Nadu, so at the moment i'm trying to find out what could be done.

If you want to apply in the Netherlands at least bring your partner, i had a carload of proof and evidence and still they can simply refuse the application, it also depends on the officer you meet and your attitude.

Maybe better try in Bruxelles, Belgium instead of dutch ambassade, what i heard more streamlined and modern, but no experiences from my side.

I don't think it has to do staying with your partner and i heared that and more reasons to get rid of me that weren't specified anywhere, like for example the 'more than 1 or 2 years married rule'.(even heard about 3) is like an unwritten law.

It seems that the law can be freely interpetated by the officer
your dealing with, a bit cynical but not too far from the truth.

Don't let them sent you up and down and stay calm if they try to.
If you apply as a 'honky european' if u know what i mean, do it in India, preferably in a big city like chennai, bangalore etc. where MHA have their own desks, if not you have to deal directly with Delhi and it won't make you happy, communicating is very hard with them.

I wish you good luck and wish to hear positive news and keep in touch.

Nick-H · Jan 8th, 2009, 22:11

Quote:

It seems that the law can be freely interpetated by the officer
your dealing with, a bit cynical but not too far from the truth

It is spot on the truth.

It was one of my first lessons by experience of living in India:

The law is, in practice, whatever the officer you talking to says it is

birds · Jan 9th, 2009, 13:33

The guy who approves of the visa and PIO applications in the Netherlands is notoriously difficult.

But the good news is that he will be transferred back to Delhi after March 2009

Lets hope they do not change his transferal, he is not put in the FRO office in Delhi and that his successor will be more palatable.

joseph10 · Jan 10th, 2009, 00:14

That's good news indeed!

People who apply for pio in the Netherlands will have more chance the application is taken serious.

Good luck

hikkaduwa · Jan 10th, 2009, 05:46

Yes... Let's hope so. I met him today and well... didn't get it.

Actually my story starts in September 2007 when I applied for a new employment visa. I already had a visa for a year (different guy then, no problem at all) and the same company wanted to keep me. Huge problem, but finally he gave it to me, after he called up my then fiance. He did tell me that if I would get married, I had to come back to him and he would give me a PIO card. He was very friendly at the end, almost fatherly.

Last July I made the mistake of wanting to change jobs. So, me and fiance went to see him during our holidays. To make a long story short: he didnt give the employment visa to me. He told me that the job I wanted to do did not require any special skills (I wanted to be a teacher), but later he told my fiance that he doesnt like it that he has to give visas to all the Dutch ppl while the Dutch embassy doesnt give visas to the Indian ppl. He told both me and my fiance that if we would get registred, he would give me a PIO card.

Our wedding is gonna be in Feb, but we did our registration in November. Only reason to prepone the registration was for the PIO card. Before we registred, I wrote an email to the ambassador, telling her that I was promised a PIO card, but had heard that often the "1 year married policy" is applied, and if I was not gonna get a PIO card, that we wouldn't prepone our wedding. Reply: "If you provide your marriage certificate, you can apply for the PIO card". And so we did.

2 weeks before I came down to Netherlands (hubby is in the hospital so I had to come alone), I emailed them to cross check the documents I would need. No response. Reminder sent, still no response. I today came to know that the ambassador has left?!?!

Anyways... 4 weeks back I went to The Hague with marriage certificate, copy of my passport, copy of his passport. First of all they told me to go to Delhi. Long discussion, until I finally met the 1st secretary who had told me to come to him in the first place. He agreed that I couldn't go to Delhi (I only got a 6 months tourist visa in July and you can't apply with that), but my papers were not ok: I needed the apostille stamp on my marriage certificate and a letter of consent from hubby. Lil pissed off, but ok... He promised me, several times and in front of the 2nd secretary, that if I would get this done, he would give me the PIO card the same day. I couriered everything back to India. Got it stamped (first Bangalore, then Delhi) and went back today.

Today first again the same story... why didn't you apply in Delhi, bla bla bla. Again, finally I got to meet the 1st secretary who basically told me I was a liar; he had never said that I would get a PIO card and my papers were not ok. The problem this time was that we hadn't registered our marriage in NL yet. I tried to explain to him that we were gonna do this, but since that also requires the original marriage certificate, we can only do 1 thing at a time. He didn't care... even went so far as to say that I didn't love my hubby because I did not want to give him any legal rights in Netherlands. He also told me not to argue with him when I said that he told a completely different story 4 weeks back.

At the end he offered me a 5 years X-visa, which I accepted. I have to go back to prepare for the wedding and there was no point arguing with him. Looking back, he was never going to give me the PIO card in the first place. While saying goodbye he turned very friendly. Telling me not to get angry and he even gave me 3 kisses on the cheek - like the Dutch do. Which I found very un-Indian, I would never think of kissing any elder Indian man!!!

I am flying back to Bangalore this weekend and will start applying from Delhi. Maybe that is a better way after all.

I met 2 other Dutch/Indian couples applying for a PIO card today at the embassy, both complaining about the ever changing rules and the rudeness of these ppl. And they are right, but what to do?!?!

Maybe things will go better after March. Until that time Im gonna focus on my wedding day and try applying in Delhi

.

birds · Jan 10th, 2009, 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by hikkaduwa

later he told my fiance that he doesnt like it that he has to give visas to all the Dutch ppl while the Dutch embassy doesnt give visas to the Indian ppl.

I checked this story with both the NL embassy and the consulate and was told that Indians do get visa.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hikkaduwa

While saying goodbye he turned very friendly. Telling me not to get angry and he even gave me 3 kisses on the cheek - like the Dutch do. Which I found very un-Indian, I would never think of kissing any elder Indian man!!!

Typical! He first is nasty and than friendly at the end. You are lucky he only kissed you. He has tried his way with almost all female applicants. He even told some that he will get them 5 years if they sleep with him!

Nick-H · Jan 10th, 2009, 14:29

Quote:

He even told some that he will get them 5 years if they sleep with him!

Somebody needs to go in there with their phone voice recorder turned on.

hikkaduwa, now you have a five-year X visa, you can apply for your PIO in India.

hikkaduwa · Jan 10th, 2009, 14:56

Birds: you are absolutely right. I have been in India for 3 years now and we (as Dutch Club) have discussed this with both the Dutch ambassador as well as the consul. Even last year when the queen came to India I had a talk with the consul about this. He said that all Indians get a visa, provided that their papers are in order. My hubby got a tourist visa twice now without any hassle or problems. Consul also said that this has been taken up with the Indian ambassador, but it doesn't really seem to help... My main point is that yes, NL does ask for a lot of paperwork. Even for a simple tourist visa. But if you have the papers, you get a visa. And in India, even if you have all the papers you can think of, they just change the "rules".

And yes, he is strange... I have heard 1 story where he didn't want to give a visa to a female unless she would give him his phonenumber. But I have also heard a story of a female who got her employment visa in 5 minutes, without even getting a proper interview and without any hassles.

Nick: My brother has a dictaphone and I was thinking of taking that. Decided against it because IF they somehow would find out, I would be in serious trouble. But if anybody is reading this post and is planning to go anytime soon and has the guts, please do!

birds · Jan 10th, 2009, 15:07

With a bit of luck another two months and he is gone!

Risifrutti · Jan 10th, 2009, 15:34

Just out of interst (admittedly slighlty off topic), any experience as to how Indian officials react to an offer of a discreet baksheesh?

joseph10 · Jan 11th, 2009, 19:09

Hikkaduwa, you'll get it at the end.

Yeah now you say, that 1st secretary looks like a player, i'm not surprised to heart this.

The grumbling old guy who's gonna be transferred was complaining to me some 4 years ago that Netherlands was making it difficult for his own family members (i assume not his direct family) to stay in holland. Some personal frustration seems to be involved.

That Dictaphone is good, it also crossed my mind before and i decided to have one when there is a next session. Probably won't help but at least gives the idea you have a small weapon, when they can't be reasonable...

Jan 1st, 2009, 20:15	#32
Paleface Maha Guru Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Garhwal Himalaya Posts: 1,789	Are you applying in Bangalore, or elsewhere? What nationality is your passport? __________________ Only a mediocre person is always at his best. Somerset Maugham. Last edited by Paleface : Jan 1st, 2009 at 20:16. Reason: sp.

Jan 9th, 2009, 13:33	#37
birds Adopt a stray Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Goa Posts: 1,063	The guy who approves of the visa and PIO applications in the Netherlands is notoriously difficult. But the good news is that he will be transferred back to Delhi after March 2009 Lets hope they do not change his transferal, he is not put in the FRO office in Delhi and that his successor will be more palatable. __________________ Of the estimated 500 million dogs in the world, approximately 75% are strays, of which about 25 million live in India.

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Jan 1st, 2009, 18:18	#31
hikkaduwa Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 56	Im also in the process of getting a PIO card. Ive been reading the stories here for a long time and I have similar experiences . Will post my story when I have my PIO card in hand, hopefully end of next week. Joseph, did you get it finally? For everybody who is in the same situation: you are definitely not alone!

Jan 2nd, 2009, 13:56	#33
hikkaduwa Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 56	Hello Paleface, Im am from the Netherlands and I am going to apply from the Netherlands.

Jan 8th, 2009, 21:59	#35
joseph10 Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: tamil nadu Posts: 77	If i finally got it i promised to tell. Last what i understood from Delhi is that the verification-papers got stuck somewhere between Delhi and Tamil Nadu, so at the moment i'm trying to find out what could be done. If you want to apply in the Netherlands at least bring your partner, i had a carload of proof and evidence and still they can simply refuse the application, it also depends on the officer you meet and your attitude. Maybe better try in Bruxelles, Belgium instead of dutch ambassade, what i heard more streamlined and modern, but no experiences from my side. I don't think it has to do staying with your partner and i heared that and more reasons to get rid of me that weren't specified anywhere, like for example the 'more than 1 or 2 years married rule'.(even heard about 3) is like an unwritten law. It seems that the law can be freely interpetated by the officer your dealing with, a bit cynical but not too far from the truth. Don't let them sent you up and down and stay calm if they try to. If you apply as a 'honky european' if u know what i mean, do it in India, preferably in a big city like chennai, bangalore etc. where MHA have their own desks, if not you have to deal directly with Delhi and it won't make you happy, communicating is very hard with them. I wish you good luck and wish to hear positive news and keep in touch.

Jan 10th, 2009, 00:14	#38
joseph10 Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: tamil nadu Posts: 77	That's good news indeed! People who apply for pio in the Netherlands will have more chance the application is taken serious. Good luck

Jan 10th, 2009, 05:46	#39
hikkaduwa Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 56	Yes... Let's hope so. I met him today and well... didn't get it. Actually my story starts in September 2007 when I applied for a new employment visa. I already had a visa for a year (different guy then, no problem at all) and the same company wanted to keep me. Huge problem, but finally he gave it to me, after he called up my then fiance. He did tell me that if I would get married, I had to come back to him and he would give me a PIO card. He was very friendly at the end, almost fatherly. Last July I made the mistake of wanting to change jobs. So, me and fiance went to see him during our holidays. To make a long story short: he didnt give the employment visa to me. He told me that the job I wanted to do did not require any special skills (I wanted to be a teacher), but later he told my fiance that he doesnt like it that he has to give visas to all the Dutch ppl while the Dutch embassy doesnt give visas to the Indian ppl. He told both me and my fiance that if we would get registred, he would give me a PIO card. Our wedding is gonna be in Feb, but we did our registration in November. Only reason to prepone the registration was for the PIO card. Before we registred, I wrote an email to the ambassador, telling her that I was promised a PIO card, but had heard that often the "1 year married policy" is applied, and if I was not gonna get a PIO card, that we wouldn't prepone our wedding. Reply: "If you provide your marriage certificate, you can apply for the PIO card". And so we did. 2 weeks before I came down to Netherlands (hubby is in the hospital so I had to come alone), I emailed them to cross check the documents I would need. No response. Reminder sent, still no response. I today came to know that the ambassador has left?!?! Anyways... 4 weeks back I went to The Hague with marriage certificate, copy of my passport, copy of his passport. First of all they told me to go to Delhi. Long discussion, until I finally met the 1st secretary who had told me to come to him in the first place. He agreed that I couldn't go to Delhi (I only got a 6 months tourist visa in July and you can't apply with that), but my papers were not ok: I needed the apostille stamp on my marriage certificate and a letter of consent from hubby. Lil pissed off, but ok... He promised me, several times and in front of the 2nd secretary, that if I would get this done, he would give me the PIO card the same day. I couriered everything back to India. Got it stamped (first Bangalore, then Delhi) and went back today. Today first again the same story... why didn't you apply in Delhi, bla bla bla. Again, finally I got to meet the 1st secretary who basically told me I was a liar; he had never said that I would get a PIO card and my papers were not ok. The problem this time was that we hadn't registered our marriage in NL yet. I tried to explain to him that we were gonna do this, but since that also requires the original marriage certificate, we can only do 1 thing at a time. He didn't care... even went so far as to say that I didn't love my hubby because I did not want to give him any legal rights in Netherlands. He also told me not to argue with him when I said that he told a completely different story 4 weeks back. At the end he offered me a 5 years X-visa, which I accepted. I have to go back to prepare for the wedding and there was no point arguing with him. Looking back, he was never going to give me the PIO card in the first place. While saying goodbye he turned very friendly. Telling me not to get angry and he even gave me 3 kisses on the cheek - like the Dutch do. Which I found very un-Indian, I would never think of kissing any elder Indian man!!! I am flying back to Bangalore this weekend and will start applying from Delhi. Maybe that is a better way after all. I met 2 other Dutch/Indian couples applying for a PIO card today at the embassy, both complaining about the ever changing rules and the rudeness of these ppl. And they are right, but what to do?!?! Maybe things will go better after March. Until that time Im gonna focus on my wedding day and try applying in Delhi .

Jan 10th, 2009, 14:56	#42
hikkaduwa Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 56	Birds: you are absolutely right. I have been in India for 3 years now and we (as Dutch Club) have discussed this with both the Dutch ambassador as well as the consul. Even last year when the queen came to India I had a talk with the consul about this. He said that all Indians get a visa, provided that their papers are in order. My hubby got a tourist visa twice now without any hassle or problems. Consul also said that this has been taken up with the Indian ambassador, but it doesn't really seem to help... My main point is that yes, NL does ask for a lot of paperwork. Even for a simple tourist visa. But if you have the papers, you get a visa. And in India, even if you have all the papers you can think of, they just change the "rules". And yes, he is strange... I have heard 1 story where he didn't want to give a visa to a female unless she would give him his phonenumber. But I have also heard a story of a female who got her employment visa in 5 minutes, without even getting a proper interview and without any hassles. Nick: My brother has a dictaphone and I was thinking of taking that. Decided against it because IF they somehow would find out, I would be in serious trouble. But if anybody is reading this post and is planning to go anytime soon and has the guts, please do!

Jan 10th, 2009, 15:07	#43
birds Adopt a stray Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Goa Posts: 1,063	With a bit of luck another two months and he is gone!

Jan 10th, 2009, 15:34	#44
Risifrutti Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Ireland Posts: 4	Just out of interst (admittedly slighlty off topic), any experience as to how Indian officials react to an offer of a discreet baksheesh?

Jan 11th, 2009, 19:09	#45
joseph10 Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: tamil nadu Posts: 77	Hikkaduwa, you'll get it at the end. Yeah now you say, that 1st secretary looks like a player, i'm not surprised to heart this. The grumbling old guy who's gonna be transferred was complaining to me some 4 years ago that Netherlands was making it difficult for his own family members (i assume not his direct family) to stay in holland. Some personal frustration seems to be involved. That Dictaphone is good, it also crossed my mind before and i decided to have one when there is a next session. Probably won't help but at least gives the idea you have a small weapon, when they can't be reasonable...