pio refusal

joseph10 · Apr 2nd, 2008, 16:36

Well, tomorrow i try at the Embassy again and hope to be in India very soon.

wish me luck, i'll keep in touch

capt_mahajan · Apr 2nd, 2008, 16:38

all the best, joseph10

anar · Apr 2nd, 2008, 16:44

best of luck, joseph! i hope it comes through for you and you are reunited with your family in india.

Nick-H · Apr 2nd, 2008, 23:38

Best of Luck!

joseph10 · Apr 4th, 2008, 01:36

Today i went to the Embassy again.
After i came in, the friendly young employee at the passport desk recognized me and asked me wether i came down to pick up my PIO. When i told him my application was rejected he looked at me like he didn't understand about the rejection, so that gave me some hope.
I told him that a tourist visa or maybe a one year visa could be granted as was told before, so he went to speak to his superior.
The superior came down from his office and said i don't get a PIO because the procedure was too difficult or whatever (still vague), but i didn't expect that anyway.
After that he asked some questions and told me he would talk to the man who took the second interview wether to give me short visa (6 months tourist visa) or longer term visa.
After waiting for a while he came down again and told me that a 2year X-visa (entry visa) was granted, so that was more than i expected.
I filled the application form and i didn't have to mention that my PIO was refused, but the 375 euro was gone and again i had to pay for the x-visa but i told myself to be gratefull for the 2 year x-visa, most important is to see my family soon again so i'm happy.

Still i have some questions about this X-visa.
The MHA officer in Delhi told me a X-visa can be converted to a PIO visa, this info i also found in other topics but:

-After PIO being refused in my native is it possible to apply again in New Delhi?

-One stamp on my new X-visa says:

whitout stipulation of each stay not to exceed 180 days

I didn't get a clear answer, so does it mean i have to leave India after 180 days and return or can i stay for 2 years continiously? And can a passport with this stamp be converted to PIO anyway? (i'm suspicious and got a little paranoid damnit!)

If anyone has some info about these questions i would be pleased to hear and it would also spare me more phonecalls and more different answers from different officers.

Thanks to everyone who took interest so far and gave support.

Peace

Nick-H · Apr 4th, 2008, 02:31

without stipulation of each stay not to exceed 180 days

... that's exactly what it says?

It's peculiar English, and seems to be unnecessary, as, as far as I know, there isn't a stay limit within the validity of an X visa --- but if that is just what it says, that says to me that there is no such stipulation, and you have got yourself a visa to stay in india until it expires!

Congratulations, and get yourself a residents permit when you get there. Establish yourself with lots of proof of address and stuff, and try for the PIO again when you've been in India for a while.

If they give you stick trying to register (they did me) go up the ladder of authority. My wife got us into the Director's office by her sheer audacity and brilliance, but there are options to ask to speak to senior immigration officers. The front desk is a bit like phoning support at a software company: I think they get a bonus for getting rid of you!

from memory... residents in India on a long term visa valid 1 year or more can apply for PIO in India. That's what I did.

joseph10 · Apr 4th, 2008, 04:05

-without stipulation of each stay not to exceed 180 days-

That's exactly what it says.

I agree, reading this it seems like i have permit to stay for 2 years continually, but somewhere it looks like the tipical indian way of providing a 'flexible' sentence wich can be explained in several ways. Also when this wasn't mentioned on the previous X-visa i somewhere wonder why they should mention it now.

Tja, My wife said she'll call to delhi about the explanation and of course the following consequenses. At the end we'll get it.

It seems they are making changes in the procedure according to foreigners, we will find out now.

Next week i fly to chennai, try to buy a small bicycle for my little girl and catch a flight to trichy.

Home again!

Cardamom · Apr 4th, 2008, 07:42

Hi joseph10!

I've been following your story. Glad to hear you got this situation somewhat sorted out. I'm amazed with your patience. I can't even imagine the frustrations involved in this whole affair.

C

Nick-H · Apr 4th, 2008, 12:14

Registration not required if continuous stay on a single visit does not exceed 180 days

That is what mine is stamped, and it is pretty clear to me that it makes registration optional.

I needed to register, as I was importing my furniture and belongings, and it made as difference to that.

The FRRO front-desk man would not have it. He interpreted it not allowing registration until one had stayed 180 days. That was when my wife marched off into the innards of the building and found the director, without which we'd have been screwed.

Interpretation, yes. My first rule of dealing with Indian officials: The law is whatever the official you are dealing with at the time says it is.

If you have time when passing through Chennai, Joseph, give me a call and we'll have a chai together.

joseph10 · Apr 4th, 2008, 18:44

Good idea having chai together, only my flight arrives 00:45 am in chennai, than i have a connecting flight at 10 am to trichy so it's slightly different from the normal chai-times.
So if it doesn't happen this time surely another, cause i make regular visits to chennai.
thanks for your responses and advice Nick and i'll be sure getting in touch about some coming matters that will appear, for example i'm very interested in shipping posibilities and regulations as i would like to import some furniture and audio equipment in the future, but everything step by step.
Also i will keep informing about our adventures in the government jungle, for this might be interesting info for others.
If someone get stuck nearby trichy contact me.

regards

Nick-H · Apr 4th, 2008, 19:26

Gosh, I don't know how you'll manage to buy a bicycle even at that time!

Yes, chai next time, and do keep us informed.

joseph10 · Jun 15th, 2008, 03:27

Blowing some life in this thread.

So i came to India on a 2 years X-visa...
After staying (very happily) with my family for two months, again i try for PIO trough Delhi.
Got my name in some documents and after my wife called to MHA (and other officials several times) they said we can expect my PIO whitin 3 to 5 months.
They said there is no need to come to Delhi in person, just send the application with required documents and it'll be fine.

I'll keep in touch...

If anyone has some good tips or advice please tell me.

Atala, i'm curious for the info you can give, hope you will answer.

Nick, we'll probaply be in Chennai end of June for a while, Chai?

Nick-H · Jun 15th, 2008, 12:13

Good luck with that!

...and yes to the chai, of course

Apr 2nd, 2008, 23:38	#19
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 26,823	Best of Luck! __________________ . Just one member of the IndiaMike Mod Team

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Apr 2nd, 2008, 16:36	#16
joseph10 Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: tamil nadu Posts: 49	Well, tomorrow i try at the Embassy again and hope to be in India very soon. wish me luck, i'll keep in touch

Apr 2nd, 2008, 16:38	#17
capt_mahajan (in charge of navel affairs) Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: India Posts: 10,105	all the best, joseph10

Apr 2nd, 2008, 16:44	#18
anar Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: India Posts: 447	best of luck, joseph! i hope it comes through for you and you are reunited with your family in india.

Apr 4th, 2008, 01:36	#20
joseph10 Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: tamil nadu Posts: 49	Today i went to the Embassy again. After i came in, the friendly young employee at the passport desk recognized me and asked me wether i came down to pick up my PIO. When i told him my application was rejected he looked at me like he didn't understand about the rejection, so that gave me some hope. I told him that a tourist visa or maybe a one year visa could be granted as was told before, so he went to speak to his superior. The superior came down from his office and said i don't get a PIO because the procedure was too difficult or whatever (still vague), but i didn't expect that anyway. After that he asked some questions and told me he would talk to the man who took the second interview wether to give me short visa (6 months tourist visa) or longer term visa. After waiting for a while he came down again and told me that a 2year X-visa (entry visa) was granted, so that was more than i expected. I filled the application form and i didn't have to mention that my PIO was refused, but the 375 euro was gone and again i had to pay for the x-visa but i told myself to be gratefull for the 2 year x-visa, most important is to see my family soon again so i'm happy. Still i have some questions about this X-visa. The MHA officer in Delhi told me a X-visa can be converted to a PIO visa, this info i also found in other topics but: -After PIO being refused in my native is it possible to apply again in New Delhi? -One stamp on my new X-visa says: whitout stipulation of each stay not to exceed 180 days I didn't get a clear answer, so does it mean i have to leave India after 180 days and return or can i stay for 2 years continiously? And can a passport with this stamp be converted to PIO anyway? (i'm suspicious and got a little paranoid damnit!) If anyone has some info about these questions i would be pleased to hear and it would also spare me more phonecalls and more different answers from different officers. Thanks to everyone who took interest so far and gave support. Peace

Apr 4th, 2008, 02:31	#21
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 26,823	without stipulation of each stay not to exceed 180 days ... that's exactly what it says? It's peculiar English, and seems to be unnecessary, as, as far as I know, there isn't a stay limit within the validity of an X visa --- but if that is just what it says, that says to me that there is no such stipulation, and you have got yourself a visa to stay in india until it expires! Congratulations, and get yourself a residents permit when you get there. Establish yourself with lots of proof of address and stuff, and try for the PIO again when you've been in India for a while. If they give you stick trying to register (they did me) go up the ladder of authority. My wife got us into the Director's office by her sheer audacity and brilliance, but there are options to ask to speak to senior immigration officers. The front desk is a bit like phoning support at a software company: I think they get a bonus for getting rid of you! from memory... residents in India on a long term visa valid 1 year or more can apply for PIO in India. That's what I did.

Apr 4th, 2008, 04:05	#22
joseph10 Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: tamil nadu Posts: 49	-without stipulation of each stay not to exceed 180 days- That's exactly what it says. I agree, reading this it seems like i have permit to stay for 2 years continually, but somewhere it looks like the tipical indian way of providing a 'flexible' sentence wich can be explained in several ways. Also when this wasn't mentioned on the previous X-visa i somewhere wonder why they should mention it now. Tja, My wife said she'll call to delhi about the explanation and of course the following consequenses. At the end we'll get it. It seems they are making changes in the procedure according to foreigners, we will find out now. Next week i fly to chennai, try to buy a small bicycle for my little girl and catch a flight to trichy. Home again!

Apr 4th, 2008, 07:42	#23
Cardamom Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New York, NY Posts: 217	Hi joseph10! I've been following your story. Glad to hear you got this situation somewhat sorted out. I'm amazed with your patience. I can't even imagine the frustrations involved in this whole affair. C

Apr 4th, 2008, 12:14	#24
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 26,823	Registration not required if continuous stay on a single visit does not exceed 180 days That is what mine is stamped, and it is pretty clear to me that it makes registration optional. I needed to register, as I was importing my furniture and belongings, and it made as difference to that. The FRRO front-desk man would not have it. He interpreted it not allowing registration until one had stayed 180 days. That was when my wife marched off into the innards of the building and found the director, without which we'd have been screwed. Interpretation, yes. My first rule of dealing with Indian officials: The law is whatever the official you are dealing with at the time says it is. If you have time when passing through Chennai, Joseph, give me a call and we'll have a chai together.

Apr 4th, 2008, 18:44	#25
joseph10 Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: tamil nadu Posts: 49	Good idea having chai together, only my flight arrives 00:45 am in chennai, than i have a connecting flight at 10 am to trichy so it's slightly different from the normal chai-times. So if it doesn't happen this time surely another, cause i make regular visits to chennai. thanks for your responses and advice Nick and i'll be sure getting in touch about some coming matters that will appear, for example i'm very interested in shipping posibilities and regulations as i would like to import some furniture and audio equipment in the future, but everything step by step. Also i will keep informing about our adventures in the government jungle, for this might be interesting info for others. If someone get stuck nearby trichy contact me. regards

Apr 4th, 2008, 19:26	#26
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 26,823	Gosh, I don't know how you'll manage to buy a bicycle even at that time! Yes, chai next time, and do keep us informed.

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Jun 15th, 2008, 03:27	#27
joseph10 Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: tamil nadu Posts: 49	Blowing some life in this thread. So i came to India on a 2 years X-visa... After staying (very happily) with my family for two months, again i try for PIO trough Delhi. Got my name in some documents and after my wife called to MHA (and other officials several times) they said we can expect my PIO whitin 3 to 5 months. They said there is no need to come to Delhi in person, just send the application with required documents and it'll be fine. I'll keep in touch... If anyone has some good tips or advice please tell me. Atala, i'm curious for the info you can give, hope you will answer. Nick, we'll probaply be in Chennai end of June for a while, Chai?

Jun 15th, 2008, 12:13	#28
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 26,823	Good luck with that! ...and yes to the chai, of course