supply of souls

volga_volga

i thougt this was rather cute... sometimes we take ourselves too seriously...

Soul Search (Hindustan Times, 6 February)

Question: The world’s population is increasing every minute. Where are all these souls coming from? S.B., via email

Answer: Souls normally don’t return to earth as soon as they die. The process of reincarnation itself can take several years. There is a period between death and birth, which may last thousand years. Whoever said the supply of souls is limited? It’s not as though God created, say, a few billion souls and then put up His feet to rest! Creation is an on-going process.

E-mail your queries and comments to: htfaith@hindustantimes.com

radz

Dont stop ur work God

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becker

The relation of the souls to god is like candles lit by a huge fire.

beach

They (the souls) could have been anything from a huge elephant to tiny bacteria in the previous life. So obviously God is not facing the all ‘sold out’ crisis in installing (loading, to use a software term) soul in the human bodies he has made!

BTW do you know that the population is growing and the Intelligence remains a constant?

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volga_volga

are you saying that cavemen were more intelligent than the people of today? that is, if there were fewer of them than us

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becker

I think it depends how you define "intelligence". Maybe the "cavemen" were equal intellegent as we are, but they couldn't rely on the same information/discoveries as our generation. We are only "intelligent" because we can rely upon the knowledge handed down to us from previous generations. If there would be a major disaster (like a nuclear war) we could lose all our knowledge and go back to square one. I think intelligence is the ability to use the information you receive and I could believe that this ability has remained the same.

beach

My mom is intelligent than me!
Her mother is more intelligent than herself. So if I extrapolate it that way…….where will I land up?
I think the negative-intelligence of the people living in the present world counterweight the super intelligentsia!

(As we are seeing now in the news, intelligence people need not necessarily have to be intelligent!)

volga_volga

"intelligence":

the ability to learn or understand or to deal with new or trying situations
also : the skilled use of reason: the ability to apply knowledge to manipulate one's environment or to think abstractly as measured by objective criteria (as tests)

(www.webster.com)

from that point of view, I guess, cavemen could be considered more intelligent then the modern men

dharmasoul

Even though I do tend to take stuff far too seriously for my own good on occasions, your posting has really stirred up some points that I’d like to put forward in this thread as well as in another thread I’ve entitled 'The creator vs. The Law of Cause & Effect'

So, from a way, way too serious point of view (for which I will apologise in advance!!) ............

.............. As far as "the supply of souls" goes: As one of teachers has said, “Like sand grains in the Pacific Ocean” – the number of sentient beings are countless, and exist in this realm and countless other realms, worlds and solar systems.

Just consider the number of sentient beings around you now in 100 square metres (as well as the number of sand grains in the Pacific!!!!) ............ Consider all the sentient beings under the earth, all the insects flying in the air, crawling and jumping on the surface, living in the trees, on the plants ......... And that’s just in this realm which we can perceive ......... countless sentient beings all totally reliant on each other .......... just to take one example - think of the number of ants in 100 square metres from where you sit!!! ........... Amazing isn’t it? ......... Well, I think it’s amazing!

We can be born in any of these countless forms. This is dictated by The Law of Cause & Effect (your karma) - your actions from all previous lifetimes. Each and every action has a cause and each and every action has an effect. This is also true of each moment in time and the continuity of the subtle mind as it is passed from one body to the next.

So why on earth (excuse the pun!) would anyone need to produce more 'souls'??? There’s plenty for everyone? They just exist in many countless forms in a countless number of realms and worlds just waiting for the right causes and conditions to come up and propel that mind stream into a human form

Everything you see and experience – the mountains, the trees, the oceans, this planet, this solar system, The Milky Way, all phenomena – nothing is ultimately fixed, existing inherently, unchangeable. Why? – Because everything is Dependent Arising. Everything is dependant on ceases and conditions to be born, to exist and then to disintegrate.

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volga_volga

dharmasoul, thanks for posting a new thread!

on the supply of souls, something's just occured to me, in Hinduism all beings are part of one and the same thing (the Creator, the Atman, the Universal Soul), so why would any NEW "souls" need to be produced? they are all one and the same: parts of Atman.

sorry for approaching religious matters from the point of view of dry logic... may be I should not be going there any more not to offend our fellow Hindus

Volga The Curious

becker

You won't offend any fellow hindus: for "dry reasoners" there is a suitable path in hinduism, called jnana-yoga. If you are of the type "dry logician", you should read about its philosophies.

As to your question "why", I don't know the answer. Maybe we should open a new thread about this question to hear the ideas of our fellow members.

Tomi

Thanks for the reassurance, becker. I suppose I am a 'dry reasoner', and it is good to know that there is a religion whose members do not get immediately 'offended' (to use a buzzword) or scandalized by the words of heathens.

So I'll post something (irrelevant to spiritualists) that occurred to me: the original question is still valid, because despite dharmasoul's statement that "the number of sentient beings are countless, and exist in this realm and countless other realms, worlds and solar systems", those numbers may be large but they are definitely NOT countless. They are not infinite. Furthermore some infinities are countable, like the integers (cardinality aleph zero), so countability is not the issue. It is our inadequacy as humans to deal with large numbers.

Just because a number is large it does not mean that it is not finite. Dogs can count to 3, pigs to 8 (or something like that), and we humans can go a little higher but get quickly confused in the face of immensity. This is a small example, but we 'dry reasoners' often think that people turn to religion because they are eager to know the truth, and since they cannot explain everything, the only thing left is a transcendental answer.

Lastly, despite my irreligiosity, I love these spiritual threads and I think our board is a lot richer for it, so thanks to you all.

AvidTrekker

Volga's QUOTE:

so why would any NEW "souls" need to be produced? they are all one and the same: parts of Atman.

UNQUOTE

Your question could also be worded as "Why did the One Atman need to produce the many "jeevas". Also worded as "Why did God need to create this Creation"

Only God knows. If you dont like the word "God"... Only a Realized Being knows. "Why Creation" is THE ultimate question. Me knows not..... this answer. Still struggling.

If I may quote from second-hand knowledge....

The ONE is referred to as Atman. The "many" are referred to as "jeevas" or "jeevaatmaa". They are One & the same...... the One knows this, the "jeevas" do not.

The jeeva is essentially Atman, but the jeeva is not aware of this. Some "seeker" jeevas have come to believe that "I" am NOT this body[(body) = (body+praana+mind+ego complex). ] In Kaliyuga, the demonaic quality prevails, hence..... very very few come to this conclusion itself..... which is merely the start of the Spiritual journey.

After this, the seeker may say, "I am not the praana", "I am not the mind", & so on. Ultimately, the seeker feels/experiences the ULTIMATE truth, "I am Atman" or correctly "I am I"

This "I" is the same "I" in all jeevas. Such a one literally knows ALL thoughts of ALL jeevas. Such an "I" is literally everywhere & in everything. Omniscient & Omnipotent. Such an "I" has nearly all powers except the power of Creation(i.e. creating a new Universe). Such a one is nearly Omnipotent. This is applicable to those "born as human" due to karma-balance, subsequently risen in quality & feeling to "realized the self" after wiping off all karma. Such a one can actually state, "I am HE" or in more ordinary words, "I am GOD". Exceptions among those "born as humans" are the "Poorna-Avataars" who are born by self-willing with full & complete knowledge. At birth itself, a Poorna-Avataar knows that "I am Atman".

Even though elephants, dogs, cats (all creatures) ARE GOD, only man has the potential to actually strive & eventually come to know it. An elephant has to be re-born as a human before starting the spiritual journey.

Atman & jeeva is one & the same..... a jeeva bound by the Maayaa of this Creation mistakenly has this feeling "I am this body". Even I feel that "I am this body". Each & every jeeva is destined to know (at different times) that ultimately, "I am He"

The very purpose of being born in "a human body" is to be able to "know thyself". An insect can never "know itself".

Karmically, those humans not trying to fathom the reality are merely extending their time spans in Creation. God has all the time in the World, He is not in a hurry to make you self-realized. Endlessly, one is born & re-born, sometimes as "lower than human" life. After suffering, & suffering, & suffering(& so on) one cries out "ENOUGH".... I dont want to suffer anymore.

Such a one embarks on a journey to find out "the cause of all suffering" After discovering it, such a one is called a "Buddha". All of us can become "Buddha" (at different times, obviously).

I have not answered the Ques. "Why Creation?" "Why did the One become many?" "Know Thyself" & find out... If you come to know.... share with us whatever is possible.

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The Universe is an ellipsoid?... or a Spheroid?? If the sphere smiles... it becomes an ellipse. This IS Creation.

Vasko

Is there actually anything new created if everything is One? Maybe this One just manifests itself in many forms. However, if we postulate that there is some transcendental conscious being that produces new souls and and new life, then we're in deep waters when it comes to answering the question why this happens. Well, we're in deep waters anyway.

absolut

tat tvam asi