Meditation in the jungle??

Hey Paleface, just a stupid question, does that sadhu offer food for free or wood to cook your own food for some ashram work or such thing. I've just enough money to last for months. On that note, is there any possibility of that sivananda ashram providing a shelter for stay. Just any roof and protection from animals will do.

Sri Ramakrishna, Ananda Mayi Ma, Lahiri Mahasay, Sri Yukteswar,Sri nisargadatta Maharaj etc were all Grihastha's. They found inner detachment/became realised while living with family.KK

I'd like to raise a few points along that line. Firstly, these are a handful number compared to many others who chose a different setting. On that note if you'd remember I've said a number of times that there are a number of people who have done so in a non-traditional setting, but their numbers are rather limited.

Second point. These people did not exactly live in a modern societal setting, have jobs, fill their world with worldly objects, mix with friends and have carnal lust for fun. If you take a look, they well lived rather plainly. No shiny and frilly things, booze and social party, job and backbiting, just enough to suffice. As i pointed out earlier they lived and practiced in an environment conducive to plain living, where worldly temptations did not visit them. A jungle or a mountain cave is never indispensable, but one of many ideal settings.


Most importantly if we were strong enough to do so while maintaining our jobs and day to day life mingling in worldly affairs, we wouldn't be suffering in such crisis. We're not as strong as them. We need guidance, we need to give our best efforts and that effort is desire complimented with action. It's just very very difficult to do it even in the most conducive of settings, leave alone in an environment fraught with perils to such cause. Of millions only a handful were strong enough, and even they did not choose to have an exactly flourishing social life. Certainly theoretically it could be done, but unfortunately we're not masters of our emotions. We wish we were so.

check out rhishikesh for this purpose

And please the world would have been full of People like Ramakrishna if that were so easy. People may have been born with equal potential, but unfortunately the maximization of said potential remains confined within a selected few. These people have enough will power to influence thousands of people with their thought and belief but unfortunately they appear once in a few hundred years or so. If you could just snap your fingers, decide that you've a desire to develop detachment and continue living in your modern society filing yourself with countless number of sources of pleasures without them influencing you, good luck to you.

I heard that it's very crowded and the countless number of foreigners visiting has resulted in the rise of establishments that charge a lot of money for stay. Do you have any particular ashrams in mind that offer otherwise? I'm searching for a free roof

Humanity seeks to escape from familial and societal bondage with the goal of seeking an environment more conducive to spiritual quests. Maybe the best results arise from the hardest sadhana, and the hardest sadhana one can do is right in front of you - in the wonderful complexity of your bondage, as opposed to at an artificial distance from it.

All this said, realizations come in layers and sometimes one has to remove oneself from the surroundings, to understand those very surroundings.

Added later: If you have to go, my advice is to take some time and head out beyond Rishikesh. Walk a lot, and observe a lot. Don't stick to one place or ashram. Spend some time at Kedar and observe the people who come/go and the people who stay there. Head to Badri and do the same. Do Satopanth, piggybacking with another group if you can. The kind of place you are looking for likely won't be found on these forums. Best wishes in your quests.

Adiyogi

Sri Bhagavan smiled and said: You do not leave one place for another.
You are always stationary. The scenes go past you. Even from the
ordinary point of view you sit in your cabin and the ship sails but
you do not move. We see a picture of a man running several miles
and rushing towards us but the screen does not move. It is the
picture that moves on and away.
D.: I see, but I can understand it only after I realise the Self.
M.: The Self is always realised. Were Realisation something to be
gained hereafter there is an equal chance of its being lost. It will
thus be only transitory. Transitory bliss brings pain in its train. It
cannot be liberation which is eternal.
Were it true that you realise it later it means that you are not realised
now. Absence of Realisation of the present moment may be repeated at
any moment in the future, for Time is infinite. So too, such realisation is
impermanent. But that is not true. It is wrong to consider Realisation to
be impermanent. It is the True Eternal State which cannot change.
D.: Yes, I shall understand it in course of time.
M.: You are already That. Time and space cannot affect the Self. They are
in you; so also all that you see around you are in you. There is a story
to illustrate this point: A lady had a precious necklace round her neck.
Once in her excitement she forgot it and thought that the necklace was
lost. She became anxious and looked for it in her home but could not
find it. She asked her friends and neighbours if they knew anything
about the necklace. They did not. At last a kind friend of hers told her
to feel the necklace round the neck. She found that it had all along
been round her neck and she was happy! When others asked her later if she found the necklace which was lost, she said, “Yes, I have found
it.” She still felt that she had recovered a lost jewel.
Now did she lose it at all? It was all along round her neck. But
judge her feelings. She is happy as if she had recovered a lost jewel.
Similarly with us, we imagine that we would realise that Self some
time, whereas we are never anything but the Self.

Source; http://www.messagefrommasters.com/Eb...i_complete.pdf

An elderly, learned Andhra asked: “Are the two methods Karma marga
and jnana marga separate and independent of each other? Or is the
Karma marga only a preliminary which after successful practice
should be followed by jnana marga for the consummation of the aim?
The Karma advocates non-attachment to action and yet an active life,
whereas the jnana means renunciation. What is the true meaning of
renunciation? Subjugation of lust, passion, greed, etc., is common
to all and forms the essential preliminary step for any course. Does
not freedom from passions indicate renunciation? Or is renunciation
different, meaning cessation of the active life? These questions are
troubling me and I beg lights to be thrown on those doubts.”
Bhagavan smiled and said: “You have said all. Your question contains
the answer also. Freedom from passions is the essential requisite.
When that is accomplished all else is accomplished.”
D.: Sri Sankara emphasises the jnana marga and renunciation as
preliminary to it. But there are clearly two methods dwividha
mentioned in the Gita. They are Karma and Jnana (Lokesmin
dwividha nishtha...).
M.: Sri Acharya has commented on the Gita and on that passage also.
D.: The Gita seems to emphasise Karma. For Arjuna is persuaded
to fight; Sri Krishna Himself set the example by an active life of
great exploits.
M.: The Gita starts saying that you are not the body, that you are not
therefore the karta.
D.: What is the significance?
M.: That one should act without thinking that oneself is the actor.
The actions go on despite his egolessness. The person has come
into manifestation for a certain purpose. That purpose will be
accomplished whether he considers himself the actor or not.
D.: What is Karma yoga? Is it non-attachment to Karma or its fruit?
M.: Karma yoga is that yoga in which the person does not arrogate
to himself the function of being the actor. The actions go on
automatically.
D.: Is it the non-attachment to the fruits of actions?
M.: The question arises only if there is the actor. It is being all along
said that you should not consider yourself the actor.
D.: So Karma yoga is kartrtva buddhi rahita karma - action without
the sense of doership.
M.: Yes. Quite so.
D.: The Gita teaches active life from beginning to end.
M.: Yes, the actor-less action.
D.: Is it then necessary to leave the home and lead a life of renunciation?
M.: Is the home in you? Or are you in the home?
D.: It is in my mind.
M.: Then what becomes of you when you leave the physical
environment?
D.: Now I see. Renunciation is only action without the sense of being
the karta.
Is there not action for a jivanmukta?
M.: Who raises the question? Is he a jivanmukta or another?
D.: Not a jivanmukta.
M.: Let the question be raised after jivanmukti is gained if it is
found necessary. Mukti is admitted to be freedom from the mental
activities also. Can a mukta think of action?
D.: Even if he gives up the action, the action will not leave him. Is
it not so?
M.: With what is he identified in order that this question might apply?
D.: Yes, I see all right. My doubts are now cleared.

Source; http://www.messagefrommasters.com/Eb...i_complete.pdf

Good luck,if you go ahead with your plans Nillohit,but try to walk away don't run away. Try not to get attached to no knife no fork,otherewise you might end up with a Big Sadhu Ego!
Meanwhile, while you are still hanging around i'll keep trying to convince you that you can remain where you are "Here Now!" it's not "Inhuman" to do it in the midst of your family,they won't be aware of what's happening internally (in your inner cave.)
You seem to be jumping from one extreme to the other, first you say "I never said i'm a practitioner." then you want seclusion/detachment/escape???
It might be wise to start with some regular Meditation first,this is what burns away the Vasana's within you,which will still remain while you are only performing "outer acts" of seclusion,in effect when you meditate you are throwing them in the Dhuni. KK

What Adiyogi says below is my pov as well. As char dham yatra season begins and the plains warm up, naturally more people are about, filling beds and so on.

As you've got enough money for a few months, although initially expenses will be higher moving around etc, but as this is really a sort of organic adventure my feeling is you just have to give up to that and see the opportunities unfold. Having said that i also appreciate how tough it can be to walk out the door.

Rikud, our man from Meghalaya has arrived in Uttarkashi.

He had to go back there from Delhi a few weeks back to sort stuff and then i'd put him off for a week or so, because the board had cut off the electricity to the kutir and sent an outrageous bill. Assuming that this could take an aeon to solve - it in fact didn't and i met him this a.m, took him to the kutir and the lineman connected the place up late afo - though there is no direct causal relationship between the two, they nonetheless seem related in time and space. Also got the meter positioned outside so it can be read and sensible bills presented?

Set him to clean up the place and i think he was very pleased with the place and the location, although probably a bit shy. Full marks anyway for persevering and showing up, bodes well for himself.

I've following the trade off between kullukid and nillohit for a while now. It seems to me its a matter of pragmatism vs theory. What nillohit suggests seems to be expedient for that purpose while that kallukid proposes is the spiritual guideline or the principal belief that encompasses that route. Personally I can empathize with nillohit. I've tried to realize vairagya, spent time in discussions with like minded people and so and so. It'd go nicely for some time but then one slip and my temptation and emotions get the better of me and i'm back to square one. Its really kinda hard to do it in the midst of a busy life but i guess the rewards greater too. Just my 2 cents.

At the risk repeating myself, I'd like to tell you that it's not expedient for one to undertake such efforts in the midst of what can be termed as unfavorable environment. I'm a human being of flesh and soul. I've found out that my society asks me to socialize with others on a superficial level, my neighbors expect me to chitchat with others behind their backs, my friends want me to hang out with them and drink, my co-workers expect me to engage in petty rivalries. I'd like to believe I'd be able to satisfy all such conditions and yet realize detachment. I'm a fool. It's difficult to remain steadfastly unperturbed at being the odd man out in a environment, to tell myself that it doesn't matter what others whisper behind me and cast me sly glances. I'd like to believe I'm beyond those, that I'm ocean of calm inside. But then I'd be in denial. No one wants to move to another place because of uncertainty and we humans crave for certainty. One only shifts to a different setting because he's unable to operate in his current environment. I assure you that the first thing that comes to mind is not to run to the mountains/forests/ashrams/any place conducive to that individual's choice. It's the last option. That was speaking on general terms.


Certainly theoretically it can be achieved anywhere but generally it's not expedient in an environment whose ideologies and principles are inimical towards what we want to achieve, at least in the beginning. Of course the rewards are that greater if one could do it in the midst of their busy life. But since the ones who have done that that we know of are so limited in numbers that we can literally count them off your fingers , people generally choose a different setting such as a monastery. Of course people often choose so after trial and error method. There's no shame in that. We're humans, hormones has dibs on our blood supply more often than we want. It's practically near to impossible to ignore. Of course age matters too in this respect. The younger you are, the harder it is to resist temptations of such nature - we're biologically coded such. The older you get, the easier it gets to overcome but even then its a uphill task. The challenge remains to start at a younger age it seems if one is able to. But I agree as I've done previously in our discussion that the setting can be rendered inconsequential if one wills it to be so - my main concern was regarding the degree of difficulty and the point at which the trade off between greater difficulty and greater reward begins to thwart us with the jaw dropping impositions

It's a matter of pragmatism that compels one to chose an environment that's conducive for his/her purpose. It's foolish to pursue it stubbornly.

You seem to have odd notions about what constitutes to be a sadhu and what not. You seem to relate or rather i should say impose certain cliched behaviors and images with people who want to realize detachment or seek spirituality or spend some time away or whatever one might call it. Why the hell one has to throw something to the fire while chanting some mantra and what not. Look man it's bloody cold out there in some places. So really there's no need for wearing a gerua and rudraksha necklace if you can afford a sleeping bag and better clothes. Contrary to what you believe, you might be surprised to know that people really are not concerned about presenting a particular image for others or for themselves. It's quite impractical and foolish i assure you repeatedly.

And Its sad to note that you were confused on that matter. Let me elucidate. I said I'm not a practitioner because I've not yet adhered to the rigid discipline and principles that one requires to if one were to develop abstinence - of both the physical and mental type. Meditation is a tool that lets one reduce stress and enforce calmness. It's very effective. People do that and it helps them. I've never denied its an intellectual pursuit for me at this moment and hence the ensuing discussion is academic to some extent for me. It's a forum where one discusses such things.
You very conveniently knit those contrasting statements without feeling the need to specify their context.


Now lets come to knives and forks. Now you see knives and forks are by themselves not capable of producing any emotions that we might be able to process. So its quite likely that we won't develop any attachment to them. Of course we may have certain memories attached with a particular artifact but that's a different topic. It's a tool we use while eating, as simple as that. For you to compare that to human attachment of flesh and emotions to prove your point is quite an extraordinary leap. But with introspection you might be able one hopes to deduce that they're not the same.

And oh yes that bit where no one notices any change in your exterior even though you're detached from everything from inside, that's the forte of masters. That's neither your cup of coffee nor mine otherwise we wouldn't end up discussing it in a forum.



And lastly regardless of whether one is practitioner or not (I assure you if by practitioner you mean someone who works towards that goal, I'm one) one can certainly discuss issues one might not have experience in. We're human beings. We observe, form opinions and throw it open for discussion. If you want to impose certain rigid structures such as one only discusses topics only one is experienced in you'll find there will be a pin drop silence all around. Believe it or not, people love to discuss politics and war even though they might not have been or want to be in one. And a forum provides one with that opportunity. Such rigid imposition is a deterrent to stimulus discussion

I agree, the greater the level of difficulty, the more satisfying any pursuit. Ideally a change in locale is not needed, but it's very difficult to do so generally speaking from observation as well as personal effort. I was merely pointing out that an attempt to do so in the midst our busy life, though very rewarding, might be very difficult because of certain expectations that come with living in a modern busy society. Often that pressure - some direct and others indirect - tends to get very difficult to ignore. But saying that I must admit I've my highest regards for those who can do it in the midst of worldly setting just because of the degree of difficulty involved.

Yeah i agree that exploring and more exploring places around will help me. I'm kinda doing that now. Thanks for your words of encouragement. I'll check on santopanth.