Looking for spiritual places advice

kullukid

Parmarth does lot's of charitable work all over the world,they raise money by donations. I don't see anything wrong with that. Some would say doing Seva through donations is more important than doing Yoga exercises for your own self satisfaction???? KK

Paleface

That sounds more like your own conclusion really, as what would be proper hinduism? That there are so many variations of the genus illustrates how flexible Hindu dharma is, and living dharmically is a personal choice, one chooses rather than having to be certified.

__________________
Only a mediocre person is always at his best. Somerset Maugham.

Paleface

Quite, i've known Munniji for 15 years and have seen him and his team through sheer hard work build up an impressive, shall we say portfolio of works.

kullukid

Lucky you Paleface, you are very blessed. I went on Kailash Yatra a few months ago & if it wasn't for Munniji & Parmarth building three Ashram guesthouses in the middle of nowhere in Tibet I would have had to do most of the Yatra staying in a tent......No Fun! at 12-15000ft
KK

Paleface

Exactly - i was in two minds about constructing up there, what it may possibly generate, insofar as if pollution, garbage and so on is managed then great, if not then anyway pilgrims don't take their garbage home with them, mostly anyhow. However we cannot stop Yatra and pilgrims so better the devil we know, and build a facility to facilitate and concentrate, rather than have it all spread out much further around.

I don't think i will ever get to Kailash. I can picturise it vividly and i know in that, there is the actual darshan absent, but i have this perhaps stupid concern about not wishing to add to the environmental impact by being there! Also don't wish to give money to China and rather convolutedly contribute to or condone the occupation.

Paleface

Maybe foreign Guru's are best for Foreign people, i don't know, my own Guru is thoroughbred Indian, but there are surely foreign masters out there as well..

I am not promoting nor am I a follower, I simply respect this man and have been fortunate enough to be in his presence and hear what he says to say in satsang, the authentic way of guidance. Foreigners may also find it somewhat easier to identify with his life than say, a Naked Naga or a Guru who appears to be surrounded by sycophants and way out of reach. A few excerpts as background.

Swami Kriyananda is a direct disciple of Paramhansa Yogananda, author of the spiritual classic, Autobiography of a Yogi – which we all usually know. Born in Romania of American parents, he speaks eight languages and has lectured for 60 years on Yogananda's practical expression of sanatan dharma. He is the founder of Ananda Sangha, which disseminates Sri Yogananda's teachings and has created spiritual communities in seven locations in the US and Europe with about a thousand people living in them, the first in 1968 in Nevada City, California. He has written 86 books which have been translated into 28 languages, and composed over 400 pieces of music, several of which have won international awards. He shifted to Delhi in November 2003.

Social upliftment is something greatly to be desired, but society is a big thing! The best approach even to general upliftment is to try to inspire a few people to uplift themselves by willing cooperation with the high ideals you offer them. When others see that people can indeed live by high ideals, in mutual harmony, friendship, and mutual support, those who are susceptible gain hope. The only way to uplift society is by inspiration. In Ananda communities, people live together in harmony and a spirit of friendship. You hardly ever see arguments. Communal living is also the best possible insurance plan, for when people see their friends in real need, they all pitch in and help them, giving help where it's needed. On the other hand, they try to help any free loaders to help themselves. It's not an impersonal, government-imposed system of welfare. It's a way of life. Another guiding principle of our communities is 'Yato dharma, tato jaya.' Even when threatened with bankruptcy, after a fire (started by a county vehicle) burned hundreds of our acres and destroyed most of our homes, we adhered to dharma, and did not sue for compensation. We have always adhered very strictly to dharma.

Sometimes people don't know what is best for them. What does one do in such a situation? We have to have some guideline. If you're fortunate enough to have a guru, he may or may not tell you, depending on your needs, and on how you approach him. The most important moral guideline is, "What will make you feel free in your heart? " Freedom has to be understood. When people give in to a desire, then feel free of that desire, they may think they feel free, but true freedom is calm and inwardly expansive. Anything you do that brings you towards inner freedom is a good thing. It's not infallible, but it's a guideline.

Shankaracharya gave us the best guideline: satchidananda. Bliss is the goal of all life. Many people think happiness exists only in pleasure. It takes time for them to realize that pleasure always carries with it an after-effect: a hangover, or a loss of energy. Gradually you come to understand that what you're looking for is not pleasure, but happiness. Happiness is longer range, yet even it carries the potential to become tiresome and boring. The bliss of the soul, ultimately, is what people should take as their guideline.

How does one recognize a true guru? In the Gita, Arjuna asks Krishna, "How can you tell if someone is a saint? How does he sit, how does he walk, how does he talk? " Indeed, you can tell partly from a person's outward behaviour. A guru cannot be somebody who is susceptible to anger, sense passion, selfishness, or who thinks first of his own needs. His eyes are always calm. There's a deep quality in them, and in his presence, that makes you feel that he isn't motivated by ego-consciousness. A true guru does things because they are to be done, not because he wants to do them. Another way of judging is to see what his followers are like. They're with him often. If they're not uplifting people, it may well be because he hasn't the power to uplift. In this case, he will not be a true guru. If they're all peaceful and happy, if they love one another, then it is fairly safe to say that they're getting it from a good source. False gurus attract false disciples; true gurus attract true disciples.

Is it wrong for a guru to get angry? There are two kinds of anger. One kind, righteous anger, can be in response to unrighteousness, or perhaps an act put on to impress a disciple of the need to change. Otherwise anger, Krishna says in the Gita, is the result of frustrated desire. Anybody who gets angry in an emotional way cannot be truly enlightened. He still has at least that kink in his armour. You can't get angry if you're at peace with yourself and are without ego motive. Anger is simply the result of desire.

Is there anything about The Essence of the Bhagavad Gita that you'd like to highlight? The beautiful thing about the Gita is that it relates to every level of life, including that stage which is higher than any level: moksha. The Gita doesn't, as many sadhus have done, talk only about achieving moksha. It describes liberation as the true goal of life, but it states also that one should at least go in that direction: accept as much of the truth as we can, and live by that. It is a guide to behaviour for everyone. We should all direct our thoughts and actions toward ultimate freedom from desire, compulsion, and sense-slavery. All these levels of teaching are contained in the Gita.

What Paramhansa Yogananda did was show that the Gita is based in truth as it is being confirmed by modern science. Krishna spoke of energy; of the vastness of the material universe; of subtler universes that people in former times couldn't understand. Another wonderful thing about his explanation is that it shows Krishna to have been completely practical in his understanding of human nature. The result is a teaching founded in perfect common sense. It is both supremely reasonable, and mystical in the highest, most sublime sense. It addresses reality on all levels, from the grossest to the most exalted.

I returned to India to fulfil my guru's mission of bringing the practical, relevant expression of sanatan dharma, which he brought to America in the 1920s, back to the land of his birth. They're particularly relevant in India today in their emphasis on the need to banish thoughts of East and West. His teachings emphasize that India's development and enrichment can be effected without westernization and loss of values - with dharma and high ideals. India can become - indeed, she has always been - the guru of the world. Spirituality vibrates in the very soil here.

If you are only studying Dharma for the sake of study, sake of development of your understanding of Dharma, if you are only studying Dharma intellectually, just intellectually on intellectual level, then I don't think you need a guru-disciple relationship. And also you can study with all kinds of teachers. It's like going to university. You study with different teachers or professors, and you go on, you move on. But if you wish to commit yourself to the path, then it is necessary, because one needs to know how to accomplish the realization, how to practice the Dharma. Zasep Tulku Rinpoche

"It seems that most students actually want to remain little children and idolize their holy daddy, and holy mommy." Scott Mandelker

Goran

that's often to be seen in sch institutions. For example you have a number of ayurvedic courses reasonably priced (how much you actually learn is another thing) but with much overpriced accommodation and you are not allowed to stay outside and just take courses. On the other hand big institutions have to be financed somehow and in usually (though not always) westerners have more money.. But if we are talking about spirituality than I don't like it. Might be wrong, maybe this is the only way to establish a strong institution that will than be able to reach a lot of people, I don't know, it is just a personal thing that I can't feel attracted by spirituality for money. You have a different example with Goenka's vipassana. Now, I don't like the approach there, I would be much happier studying vipassana in a traditional Theravada monastery, but it is a very popular and successful spiritual organization that menages to exist purely on donations, and on a thread there someone said that a lot of people attending the courses do not give anything upon completion. SO we have an example of a modern and popular international spiritual organization teaching meditation techniques that does not charge anything, not even accommodation I believe and everything is based on donations. This makes me wonder if others really need to do it in the way they often do, paying for it on a fixed price..

Goran

.. being on the wrong side of the law...

Goran

he is also a men prosecuted on rape charges. He admitted, though not that it was a rape, but willing and it might be so.... But from a spiritual perspective he is taking the part of a celibate monk). After that he run away from the USA to his Italian commune and left them pay a big compensation (in millions if I remember correctly). There are also a lot of I believe founded rumors about actual reasons for his departing from the Yogananda's society that are not as nice as the once he usually presents to followers (some financial and I think sex related things though I'm not sure for the later, It was a long thyme ago I was reading about all that). Though from mouths of former disciples that society also has it's share of strange things and power struggles going on after Yogananda's death so.. a sad situation really.

vegan

They have provision for donations and have a long publication list - I am sure they get some money from that channel. My guess is that one should be able to rent a room (or even an apartment) for about Rs 1000/month in an area like Munger and food does not cost much (say about Rs 1000-1500 per month) there, so it seems like boarding and lodging is not really that much subsidized for Indians who pay Rs 2000 per month for it. Infrastructure does costs money and besides donations and publications, it seems like foreigners are easy target for that. Rs 700 per day seems quite high.

On another web site I read that it is a part of Univeristy of Bhalgalpur and perhaps this extra money foreigners pay is determined by them and goes to support that university. Something like how high tuition at Harvard Business School goes to support their unprofitable departments.

I feel their high charges are deterring many foreigners - foreigners from not-so-rich countries and not so well-to-do foreigners from rich countries - and let's face it foreigners with lots of money are generally not interested in yoga or spending 4 months leading a simple life - they would rather go to Goa and have their fill of wine, women/men and drugs while spiritual foreigners by their nature are not that much interested in pursuit of money and have less money. This is quite unfortunate.

Goran

I remember what Swami Niranjananda was in a place nearby, an elite tourist destination, the prices for the seminar (just a few days) in my opinion a little high and this certainly has nothing to do with any university.. but to everyone it's own, not my coup of tea though..

vegan

So you are against yogis having sex?

In West (particularly the USA) yoga = sex, it seems. Famous yoga guru Rodney Yee (hope I got the name correct) is rumored to have slept with thousands of women. I read article quoting Bikram (of famous Bikram Yoga) that he has slept with hundreds and can't help it because it does to make those women happy who come to him with their requests. Same is the story with other less-known instructors. I have heard from women how they got solicited for sex from their yoga instructors or how their instructors are sleeping with their friends.

Moreover, I have rarely met an instructor in the USA (and I live in famous Berkeley, California area) who is a vegetarian with some even promote Atkins diet which emphasizes meat-eating, in their classes. I must admit though that some have memorized Sanskrit names of a few asanas quite well.

Goran

if you are a monk with such wows than yes. Btw he himself has written in his Autobiography how Yogananda warned him about women, that he scolded him even for trying to help one when she dropped some papers or books she was caring, asking him to keep the distance. So in his case having sex is going against his wows, his teacher and his own teachings.

should be more like yoga = celibacy, at least according to the scripture, Shivananda said that westerners don't advance in it precisely for not observing brahmacharya.

Of course, to me at least about 70% of the famous "gurus" are bogus anyway (probabilly more). Money, power.. some start with wrong motives, some get carried away ..

well yoga has become just an exercise, so we should not mix the gurus with the "gym instructors"

samvita

well! It is good to be on the path, but do you also have a goal? What are you inclined to -- Gyaan yog, Bhakti yog, hath yog ,karma yog, siddha yog .... Or is it at curiosity stage?

I think it is a good idea to read first about all of them and try to understand your own temperament and inclinations first before embarking.

If you have a specific inclination then you must choose the ashram accordingly.

Paleface

Goran, I didn’t know any of that about Swami Kriyananda, which rather deflates things - still i do think he has very good things to comment on the Gita that Westerners can grasp more easily and relate it to their busy, fast, competitive lives... Anyway we'll leave him as it Proves to me that it is best to stick to what one knows rather than speculate – My own Guru is an immaculate Brahmacharaya in comparison, having never touched a woman in his life, well you know what I mean… and yeah we should not mix Guru’s with exercise and asana wallahs – which although good for the body I suppose, has little to do with classical Yog – which is also vegetarian. Tantra is another thing, which I find particularly fascinating, however that it also incorporates esoteric sexual knowledge (if one goes that path)obviously doesn’t mean that it’s ok to just go ahead and have sex whenever and wherever one pleases.