Is enlightenment an illusion?

I have't seen that movie...might now...

at any rate...you seem to disregard all my previous posts where I argue that you have no control over your mind...at least not full control...

if you are hurt you will feel pain...you can tolerate that pain...but cannot shut it out completely...so even if a guru were to sit on a bed of nail...he feels the pain he just shuts it out...how much control do you think he really has? Can he stop his blood vessels from being damaged by that exercise?....

ultimately enlightenment is an act of fooling your mind or diverting pain etc...not of complete control...

did you know if you don't sleep beyond a certain point your body/mind will knock you out itself...via hormones? do you think you could stop that?...nobody has so far...even long term "non-sleepers" are tricked by the body into going into what is termed micro-sleep...

with that i would conclude enlightenment is just a mere illusion...your sub-conscience humoring you...nothing more...and will step in to save you if you get out of hand....

clever boy.

One does not sit back and think about it during that time. That comes after the game when one analyses his/her action. That is close to meditation. Yes, there are many like that. They are charlatans. You do not need them. That is why my signature 'Search, be your own guru'. That is right. I do not have full control over my mind (perhaps some people have). But I can direct my thoughts to where I want. I would still feel pain if I sit on a bed of nails. But that does not effect my understanding of the world and my equation with it.

As you have rightly said, we don't have full control over our minds. However, we don't need control over our minds for enlightenment. Also total control over our our minds will not always lead to enlightenment.

Enlightenment is the knowledge that we are NOT the mind, instead we are the consciousness that is aware of the mind and in which the mind exists. Due to ignorance we start identifying with the mind (and therefore the body). When we enlightened we become aware of our real nature, which is pure consciousness.

And the consciousness transcends lives?

I can see that conciousness has degrees ...but purity?

Pure is not the best word, perhaps? Maybe degree is then.

Anyway what is probably inferred is that in our world of dualities, of subject and objects, there's somehow an impurity in it all, i know i am. Whereas 'zero degree' consciousness is ultimately subject and objectless and without relations and thus purified?

What do you think consciousness is?

That is one of the first questions on these threads that I do not have a quick, easy or glib answer to!

I may be back later. Or I may not. I guess it depends on if I can get the consciousness wound up

But you must have some idea of what you are calling consciousness as you mentioned 'degrees' of consciousness. Never mind what others have said. What do you say?

Well, yes. It starts with waking up in the morning, and progresses to stuff like actually noticing things ...

But I'm telling you how I experience it, not what it is, so I'm just doing easy stuff here so far.

So, you are saying consciousness is what you experience. You and what you notice, yes? The observer and the observed. Everything you think and feel.

What I don't understand is why you said 'degrees' of consciousness. Consciousness is not something that grows, nor contracts nor expands, does it?

So you don't "experience" dreaming or deep sleep then?KK

Sometimes. Sometimes not.
I think it is, yes. I have very little before my first cup of tea of the day!

Maybe you are confusing alertness with consciousness. These are not degrees of consciousness, just moods of body/mind.