Hindu God(s)?

IainC

I am trying to get my head around Hinduism. I have asked this question several times, to several people and got totally different answers. Can anyone answer this: In Hinduism, is there one God that has many forms and manifestations or is there a pantheon of Gods, for different things?

maree

'Ka" by Roberto Calasso is a good book to read. It's an interpretation of Hindu mythology and it helped me get my head around who was who in the pantheon of Hindu gods and demons.

abracax

There is no orthodoxy in Hinduism, therefore there is no right answer to any theological question. The traditions go back through the teachings of gurus, local cults, epic tales, several layers of sacred writings from the Vedanta back to the early Puranas and Upanishads and many generations of organized philosophies and religions (e.g. Brahminism, Vedism, animism, yoga). The only constants and universals are the concept of the cycle (e.g. seasonal, birth-death-rebirth) and the concept of universal consciousness (brahman, atman), of which the individual consciousness is a temporary and illusive aberration. So the short answer to your question is that according to the core philosophy of Hinduism there are no gods, and we aren't real, either.

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Layman

These are my views, as a Hindu:
1. Hinduism is not a 'religion' in the same terms as Christianity, Islam or Judaism. It is not an organised religion, there is no church, there is no 'must read' Book like the Bible, Koran or Torah, though the Bhagavat Gita, which is a part of the epic Mahabharata, comes the closest.
There are a lot of philosopher-saints in Hinduism, who have tremendous following (Shankara, Madhwa, Ramanuja etc). They have highly organised 'sects', with a leader who heads it for life, somewhat like the Pope. The major streams of Hinduism - Shaivism (worshippers of Shiva) and Vaishnavism (worshippers of Vishnu) could qualify to be called religions themselves, even though the Gods come from the same pantheon. The two groups have in the historical past displayed all the animosity between themselves as existed between organised religions of the West.
'Hindu' is the term given to us by Arab traders many centuries ago, who called our land Hind or Hindustan, which the Greeks called India, due to the Indus river, Indus being Greek for the Sindhu river. No other religion has its name given by others. Broadly, any Indian who is not a member of defined religions (Christianity, Islam, Sikhism, Buddhism, Jainism etc) could be called a Hindu, despite the variance in beliefs, or even being an atheist. By this definition, Hinduism is bound by India or regions which were part of ancient India (eg Pakistan, Bangladesh). Hence you wont come across too many people outside India who would 'convert' to Hinduism nor would you find Hindu 'missionaries' trying to convert others.
2. Given the amorphous nature of Hinduism, there is a wide variety of beliefs held by different groups of Hindus. It is very difficult to say 'Hindus believe this' or 'Hindus believe that' for all Hindus. However, coming to OP's question on God, the Bhagavt Gita says that God is formless, without beginning, middle or end. God is One. In this, it is similar to Islam, whose adherents also believe that Allah has no form. It is different from Christianity whose adherents believe that God has a human form ("God made man in his own image") and male.
3. Most Hindus believe that God, being omnipresent, exists everywhere, in human beings, in animals, birds, trees, even non-living things like mountains, rivers, rocks and so on. Hence you will find Hindus worshipping God in the form of any of the above.
4. Coming again to OP's question, there is a large pantheon of gods (all arising from the Supreme Being), similar to the Greek pantheon of gods. There is a king of gods (Indra), a god of love (Kama, similar to Cupid), god of water (Varuna), god of fire (Agni) etc etc. There are also goddesses (talk about gender equality!) such as Lakshmi (goddess of wealth), Saraswathi (of learning), Parvathi etc. In mythology, these gods (secondary to the supreme being), have human-like failings.
5. Each of these gods can be worshipped in different forms, by different names etc, by different groups of Hindus, each form having its own mythological lore. For example, Parvathi the wife of Lord Shiva is worshipped as Durga, Kali, Eshwari and many other forms. Similarly, Lakshmi can be worshipped as Bhagyalakshmi (goddess of fortune), Dhanalakshmi (of wealth), Santanalakshmi (of fertility) etc.
6. In addition, you have avatars or incarnations - wherein a particular god takes human (or animal) form, goes through the cyle of life from birth to death, to acheive a specific purpose - usually to fight evil, such as an evil king or whatever. Most famous are the avatars of Vishnu (the preserver), who has had nine avatars according to mythology, with a tenth (Kalki avatar) promised. Rama, Krishna, Buddha, Vamana, Parasurama etc are some of the nine avatars of Vishnu.
I hope I have not confused you too much :-)

IainC

Thanks guys. I am now a bit more wiser ( think!).

Indiantoo

Hi Layman,

Great job on getting down to the fundamentals of Hinduism. I can imagine what a difficult job it was to write it down...

I differ on one thing tho'. The Gita's "ONE" can also be interpreted as being "the self". Esp since it says, the "one" is in each of us.
I have generally read the Gita with this perspective and am more comfortable with the message it delivers...but then I am uncomfortable worshipping anybody except nature...

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Sadhu

So HerbyGreens - Tell us a bit more about your Guruji. Does he impart his spiritual state to you via transference of consciousness? What is the practice like? I'm curious to hear. I've seen the websight before and was curious. Thanks.

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mountaingirl

Hmm…I should write a thesis. I am born in to Hinduism but I do not practice it except when celebrating festivals! What I am going to write here is my understanding from difficult books and dialogues with the learned men over the years:

First I will give you a background about Hinduism

Hinduism is not a religion, it is a philosophy

The main idea or philosophy is that we are all little droplets of water whose aim in life is to merge or, immerse ourselves in to the great ocean (i.e., God).

There are two major schools of thought: One does not believe in Idols, photos etc, to them God does not have any shape or form.
The other one believes in god looking more like you. Of course due to the regular ‘corrosion’ (I don’t know the exact word), every god started looking closer to the culture that believed in it i.e., cloths, colour etc.

Now back to the basic question:
How do we achieve our purpose in life?

The answer is : by the ‘negation’ of ‘I’.
I want this for myself, I want to be this etc etc….this is the ‘I’ness amongst us.
Achieving the negation of this is simpler said than done! But some of the ways to achieve this is are:

1. By acknowledging that someone is above you. i.e., respecting all elders. Often you will see in the ghats that someone who has just taken a dip in the holy river will touch the feet of all elders and Sadhus etc.
2. By practising music. When you listen to music, you forget the surrounding and become ‘one’ with it.
3. Other ways of forgetting yourself is through sex. Ever seen the temples at Khajuraho? The one-ness of man and woman – is the ultimate moment when you forget who you are, forget your bodies etc….and are one with the universe.
4. The cow is Holy to a Hindu. Why? Because she is like your mother – mother gives you the life saving milk! So the Cow is equivalent to your mother. You will often see people especially in holy cities of Varanasi or Rishikesh – run and gather the urine of the cow and put it on their head.
5. By visiting a temple and praying to god.

These are some of the ways of achieving the negation of ‘I’.

Some idol worshippers may actually disagree with the philosophy about the water droplets. They believe that it is the product of other school that does not believe in idols.

I don’t know much about it but I know that in a Brahmin family was born a boy, Dayanand Sarawati. One day when he was praying he noticed a rat come and eat the offerings made to the idol. He refused to worship a god, who could not protect himself from a rat! He was of course banished from his house and started his own preaching’s and founded the Arya Samaj. Those of you who have been to Delhi would have seen signboards of temples that read ‘Arya Samaj Mandir’.

OK, enough deviation from the topic of this thread.

The school that believes in Idols believe that there are three main gods (which came from One god, The ‘OM’). The three gods, or the Trinity is:
Brahma: The creator: he sits in a rose pedestal rising from the navel of Vishnu.
Vishnu: The preserver: Whenever there is evil on Earth, he takes a reincarnation to save the Earth. This line is also the sayings of the ‘Bhagvad Gita’ which is one of the sacred books.
Shiva: the destroyer. He lives in Mount Kailash and is surrounded by ghosts and devils etc. He rides a bull called Nandi.

Most of the gods that you see are reincarnations of Vishnu. Whenever there was a need for help on Earth, a new god was created so the list is unending but if you concentrate on the trinity (NOT from Matrix!), that is your answer.

Many of you may have gone deeper in to Hinduism and may disagree with me as Hinduism became more difficult and juggled up over the years. As with Christianity, there has always been a fight with the Temple and the warriors/ Kings for power. The priests interpreted the holy books in a manner that gave them more power – rendering it beyond the reach of the lower class & caste of people.

I hope that answers your question. Sorry for the boring lecture!

IainC

Thanks for all your responses.
IainC.

Inity & Iditation

One God - Om

Manifests in the Trinity - with Unity in Duality

Shiva-Shakti
Vishnu-Laxmi
Brahma-Saraswati

The Upward pointing triangle is the 3 Masculine principles
The Downward point tringle is the 3 Feminine principles

Together they form what we know as the Star of David.

The 3 in 1 principle is also to be found within the family

Shiva, Parvati, Ganesh - Father, Mother, Child

Father, Son, Holy Ghost.. who is the Holy Ghost ? The Mother! This is a Gnostic truth that has been lost by patriarchal strains of Christianity.

This trinity is to be found throughout the Indo-European line and Beyond.

Odin-Freya-Thor
Zeus-Hera-Ares
Osiris-Isis-Set

Samsara

I have been formally meditating using various meditative techniques (secular and non-secular and what is called yoga (there are various types of yoga) and also exploring various paths and beliefs and non-belief systems and living as we all do (otherwise we are then in the state known as death) since about the age of 9/10 (when I decided to read the whole "Bible" from beginning to end and also consciously tried to imagine "beyond death" either nothing or something (my first hatha yoga was taught formally at the age of 13) - until I have reached this present point in time/space - all that I believe and don't believe and all that I practise and don't practise is in line with my interpretation of "Hinduism" ("Hinduism" is a name which is an illusion - it doesn't exist) in some philosophies and writings of India and certain practises of India which appeal to me (though I do not limit myself to India, and indeed why should I, when there is so much out there).

I am particularly drawn to the Mahadevi in all her forms, most particularly Kali Ma and Durga Maharani (as where I was born was/is the stronghold of Kali Ma and Durga Maharani), tantrika, and Shaivism.

My understanding is that all is an illusion and not an illusion and I am devi/deva and I am not devi/deva - also that I am both an illusion/and not an illusion - I can be an "atheist" or an "agnostic" and still be "Hindu". I am actually now "beyond belief" personally and beyond man-made rules and religions and any religious or social conditioning - except those very few I have imposed on myself as a final result of my studies, explorations and meditations (which may change the further I live here) - I am sat (truth) as I am a microcosm of what is sat (truth) - thus I do not need to know and cannot know sat - only sat is...this is also in the Vedas and I feel I am presently only seeing unclearly and partially but I feel very comfortable and at ease with that.

I like to meditate on maya, samsara, ahimsa and many other concepts...even if one does not believe in reincarnation (this belief is an optional belief) it is a good meditation - as then you have stepped away and out and beyond and can look at what is "you in this world" objectively and see the rules you have imposed on yourself and then question why you have done this.

My experiences have personally lead me to believe (I don't expect anyone else to believe what I believe nor do I want it) at this point in time/space that I am living truly in samsara - and I have concluded that complete tolerance, practise of ahimsa, unconditional love and compassion are some of the main principles that are vital for me personally. I don't care what other people believe and I don't like to talk about my beliefs with anybody most of the time. I am an extremely private person but I have decided it is what I want to do here right now as I have reached personal nirvana (complete as possible liberation under the physical rules of this world). Due to reaching the nirvana that was meant for me, I see my path clearly now for this world. My path however is unique and I feel no one can fully share another's path but some human beings here are closer to me in my worldview than others. I fully accept other people's world views in a fully detached sense without wanting to share that worldview that was not meant for me.

But I assure you if someone tells you my way is the only true way - that is not "Hinduism" - the Vedas state that each person's way is true for him/herself. This makes sense to me - as there is only that which is and we are all part of that which is (this agrees with various scientific views too) - so why would anything be wrong or anybody be wrong? Morality is man-made (whether religious or secular social) thus we are truly in that sense living the lives of those on "a ship of fools". This is one sense of Maya (Illusion).

Meditation has often led me to a sense of "merging" and seeing "differently" and I see Unity and I see Difference, and I see many truths and no truths - all are necessary, we are all connected but we are all unique, each and everyone. "Heaven" is different for each person. "Heaven" can be found here/now through going inside into your mind/into your body/into the now/into creation (imagination belongs to human beings and can create - whether this is an illusion or not is not important - for after all I personally would like to be in a personal "heaven" and with meditation and imagination I can create as many "realities" and "scenarios" as I want before I even die, when I suppose sat may or may not be revealed...who knows).

As each being here is unique, as Meher Baba said, "Don't worry, be happy". You are just fine as you are, free yourself from man-made social conditioning and live and let live. Find your SELF - self-realization. The Self is and is separate from and also a part of - that which is IS. Why would you think there is something wrong with you, why listen to someone, anyone, who tells you that there is something wrong with you. Is a butterfly ever wrong? A butterfly IS (humans however are not butterflies but I feel we were meant to be as free and as natural as butterflies).

At the most basic level of meditation, emptiness and nothingness is all. For me personally, I always love to return to the emptiness and nothingness. Nothing/non-existence. This is a very peaceful meditation. And then after that it's good to meditate on everything/existence (I find for my human mind, the everything I like to meditate on is the universe in all its implications and one's place right here/right now in this "universe").

The key to piercing Maya (Illusion) is first of all to realise all and everything is an Illusion. Actually just that one step makes one a "Hindu" in one sense...

"Hinduism" or as many prefer to call it, "Sanatan Dharma" is tied to a people (the peoples of the sub-continent born into this "religion(s)'' or "philosophy/ies") as this people/these peoples of this place formulated their worldview over a long period of time and it is an extremely complex and diverse system which allows for all ways and beliefs as it reflects only what IS and also the fact there are as many lives and paths as there are people on this planet. What is suitable for one would not necessarily be suitable for another. And each "nation" on earth formulates their own interpretation of sat (the ultimate truth which IS) thus all ways are sat. And each person's way is sat. As SAT is only what IS.

One can believe in a personal god or goddess and other forces as aspects of the Ultimate or as genuinely real. Many do and many don't.

Not all Hindus are vegetarian (this is too complicated to go into).

Meditation, ahimsa, and yoga are, I believe, good for everybody if they want it, they in themselves standing alone have absolutely no religious implications. Many great people have taken advantage of these tools, scientists, artists, people from other religions such as Bede Griffiths (the great Catholic monk who went and set up an ashram in India, a perfect example of East meets West and merges). Actually, these three things can be found in other religions and philosophies (including secular) under other names and techniques - which proves to me the human mind thinks remarkably similarly often through the ages - I find this interesting and hopeful.

Just meditation and Self-Realization can be all too - enough practice without religious worship - for example there are plenty of Self-realization masters who do not preach religion, just teach meditation as a technique to relax, free yourself and find Self.

Or you can simply be an "animist", for example, worship of the Sun God (Surya Namaskar for example) or Agni etcetera.

Buddhism is a part of Hinduism, from the Hindu viewpoint, it came from Hinduism and is also Hinduism. Many Hindus also simultaneously engage in Buddhist, Sufi, Christian and other worships, as all ways are the same (in one sense).

The worship of the great Mahadevi, the Great Mother Goddess, has been lost in most of the world, but not in India, where she especially exists strongly in the person of Ma Kali - Ma Kali is Perfect Love.

I can assure you, I have never discussed Hinduism with HerbyGreens but I did look at the his GuruDev's online site and a meditation given online by this SatGuru and it is completely in line with the practise I find most liberating (actually, this practice is not confined to Hinduism, but is also found in Buddhism and some Sufis and perhaps Jains have been influenced historically it seems...).

Sadly, practises that lead to ultimate mental liberation in life that have existed since time immemorial in the sub-continent are now under threat from modernism (which can be at times quite repressive paradoxically...).

This link explains part of where I'm coming from in my views on this (I can't bear the name "Hinduism" and this academic article explains why this term is a dangerous illusion...) -

http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/gthursby/tantra/naked.htm

AvidTrekker

There is only one God & everything is/are its reflections. Ekam Sat, Vipraah bahudhaa vadanti .... says the Rig-Veda. The One is Omniscient, Omnipresent, Omnipotent ....the ultimate absolute.

However, for day to day purposes, demi-gods or deities are present. They are written about with a lower-case "g" in English. They are very much a part of Creation, have powers only limited to their portfolio(e.g. rain=Indra, wind=Maruta, plant growth=Soma), are like temporary ministers until sacked or re-appointed. They have forms or bodies akin to the human but are made up of photonic molecules (light units). Best part is, we humans can also become these... but the post, like all others, is temporary.(a few thousand years is actually temporary compared to billions of years in the current Creation cycle!!). After this, one has to come back to "the realm of the dying" (Earth). Ksheheene punye martyalokam vishantee!

However, the alert ones reject this temporary allure to find out the permanent one. And that is The One. The Veda also says that YOU are God, O human, ...(just realize yourself, man!).

The answer to IainC Ques. .... is ... both are correct. There is the ONE, & there are these officers & lieutenents & colonels who have their own limited place. Just learn to distinguish One from the other(s).

When one reads Hindu scriptures, one should be constantly aware ... whether one is reading about The One God or about the "gods". It is the latter who fight, make-up, have jeolousy pangs, etc. It is mostly confusing One with the "others" that makes people scratch their heads!

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The Universe is an ellipsoid?... or a Spheroid?? If the sphere smiles... it becomes an ellipse. This IS Creation.

IainC

Thanks AvidTrekker,

Do you know where in the Rig Veda this is mentioned?

IainC.

AvidTrekker

Ekam sat, vipraah bahudhaa vadantee is so often quoted that I never thought that I should look for the verse no(out of 10,800 ? verses ). Anyway, I'll tell you the verse no, if & when I locate it. Ekam Sat=One (is the) Truth. Here I have translated 'truth' as 'God'. Vipraah(knowers) ...... (of God! that is .... not some one who has read a book or heard a lecture). Bahudhaa=many. Vadantee= speak (about).

Read this in association with this statement from the [i]Purusha Sukta[I/] which states that "Vedaaham etam purusham mahaantam, aaditya varnam tamasah parastaat (The Purusha Sukta(Purusha=HIM, Sukta=Hymn, hence it is the HIS Hymn) occurs in all the four Vedas, is very commonly quoted, most often chanted by a new student, & I can give you the verse no tomorrow.

This Purusha{HE} who this veda mentions is so exalted, like the brilliant daazling sun, HE is experienced beyond Tamas. Tamas=the limitations of the mind-senses.

I normally attend trekking Ques. only, IainC ... you are making me work hard!

AvidTrekker

Rig Veda I 164 46

states : Ekam sat, vipraah bahudhaa vadantee

There..... I could get the verse no. eventually