[sirensongs]

very much like Tibetan Buddhism. But they aren't Buddhists

Are you taking into account the post-Bon Reformation Bon (sometimes called "White Bon" as opposed to the old "Black Bon")?

[giripriya]

I went to a long-life initiation after seeing a flyer at a Tibetan shop(since closed) here in Flushing, Queens. The flyer didn't say much about the lama in question but I seem to recall that it mentioned Je Tsongkhapa, so I figured he was cool. It mentioned his monastery which I hadn't heard of. No mention of Shugden, NKT, etc. My friend and I entered the hall, prostrated 3 times, and sat down. We were the only non-Chinese folks in the room(Flushing is a largely Chinese(plus Indian and Korean) area and many follow Vajrayana in addition to Pure Land Buddhism). There was no introduction. The lama began reciting a supplication to the lineage. I do not understand much Tibetan but when the lama said "Dorje Shugden sol wa deb" my friend and I looked at each other and (politely) hotfooted it out of there.
Later we spoke to the owner of the shop and yes, he and the lama were members of the Shugden sect.

Next time I will do more research...

[dzibead]

Originally Posted by sirensongs

Are you taking into account the post-Bon Reformation Bon (sometimes called "White Bon" as opposed to the old "Black Bon")?

Yes, I'm taking that into account. So-called "White Bon" is much closer to Buddhism, but it's still not the same. Bonpos just don't trace their origins back to the Buddha Shakyamuni, for one thing. I know a Bonpo guy from Nepal and he doesn't consider himself a Buddhist, and none of the Tibetans I know consider Bonpos to be Buddhists either!

Take a look at these quotations from Tibet is My Country, the autobiography of the Dalai Lama's older brother, Thubten Jigme Norbu:

"There is a sect called Black Bon, however, which seeks to throw off the refinements and moderating influence of Buddhism, and which still practices rites relating to basic primal powers. During the reign of the last Gyalwa Rinpoche, the thirteenth, an edict had to be issued against the Black Bonpoba who were terrifying certain villages with their practices. "

"White Bon, which has taken pains to come as close as possible to Buddhism, even claims that Guru Rinpoche was born not of a lotus, as the Hindus claim, but as a man, and a Bon, in Shang Shung. White Bonpoba teach mystic contemplation, meditation, and the performance of correct ritual and the leading of a correct life. They also have scriptures like their Kyeddzog which teach tantric practices of possession and exorcism. "

"We Buddhists believe that the Bon religion is quite separate from our own... I know two Bonpoda priests, both from Amdo, in the east. They studied first at the important Bon monasteries in western Tibet: Rala Yundrun, near Rong, and Thobgyal Drutsang Gon. Bon students from all over Tibet, from 2,000 miles away, come to study at these monasteries... The Bon people are represented in the government, and the government recognizes Bon monasteries and gives them large grants just as it does to any other monasteries. "

[troyharris]

I have done extensive research on the forum you are discussing and I conclude forthrightly that E-sangha IS Dark Zen. It represents just about the most hideous example of Buddist Fundamentalism imaginable whilst being essentially fascist in its outlook. Not that I would not touch it with a barge pole, but it is to be observed and studied as an ethnological subject, as an expression of what I can only describe as Neo-Buddhism, i.e. contemporary Buddh-ism. Still, dark as it is, the forum can also be a highly beneficial investigation in that it throws instructive light on the unnoticed reasons why this thing we habitually refer to as "Buddhism" in fact represents one of the most insidious intellectual currents of our time. In spite of that, the forum has its brilliant contributors. Search for "Imago" – a compassionate professor and damn brilliant teacher who senses hunger and feeds.

Rev Troy Harris (esoteric jhan)
http://bauddhamata.blogspot.com/