Americans moving to Darjeeling (maybe)

PeakXV

If you do go - get the pooch a rabies booster & don't forget to pack your sense of humor & patience ... first & foremost for all those new & unusual roommates (re:creepy-crawlie bugs) you may find in your new himalayan abode.

You might want to import some of your favourite cigarettes & wine (should you happen to indulge and be extra fussy about your choice of sinful pleasures) .... because other than a nice cuppa of chai, a bedi bedi or swig of 'ol Monk - the stimulant pickins might be slim in them thar hills!!!!! ..... just some minor things you might not think of if you've never been to the subcontinent.

Other then, as wisely suggested, an intensive review of the other threads on IM with a similar M.O. - to get a feel for the trials & tribulations & certain pitfalls of moving willynilly to the Subcontinent! Best of Luck in your due diligence and dreams!!

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Don't go to India ~ Pre-trip Warnings & Misconceptions?

machadinha

I personally always love to hear these wild and unresearched plans by people who are not open to any answers they generate and then complain that boohoo you don't know me (no, we obviously don't know anything more than what you've told us which may well have been too little or too disorganized, but we do have some experience with similar previous queries to go on), who then assure you that they've "read everything they could!" first. Er, whatever you may have studied first, it obviously wasn't this site, as again most of the answers and varying approaches to them are already there, and reading them would likely have resulted in more targeted questions at the very least.

Oh well. If not to OP, I'm sure this thread will be useful to other prospective emigrants. As for what will it cost to live there (one of OP's latest questions): What would you say it costs where you do? Like I usually say, if you ask all the block where I live, you'll likely be more confused even than when you started out.

btw There's cheap brandy aplenty up there alright Peak -- a perhaps not entirely wise but nonetheless popular local way to sit out the winter cold

I liked that early comment by a Darjeeling member too that there's not even enough employment to go around for the locals btw. The kind of relevant stuff this board is so good at.

Renting if available at all, let's see: I don't know about Darjeeling, but in many places a complication seems to be that a 10-month advance or thereabouts is required. I imagine this might prove tricky if you and the family have to pack it up and hope for the best every 6 months. Might be OK or even an adventure and fun if you're young and wild and unencumbered by wider obligations; perhaps less so if you're not.

To get back to South America once more, I think you'll find many aspects of life there much more recognizable than in India. That informal tourist industry for instance to name but one thing; I think India simply doesn't offer many opportunities along those lines to a foreigner. Or even just getting in your daily groceries and simple stuff like that. But again, no one said you'll necessarily run away from India screaming. I guess settling on a long-term trip there is really the best idea, it's exactly what India is a popular destination for. There's nothing to stop you from staying in Darjeeling for half a year, and perhaps looking for some education for your son, and some volunteer work in the area, and it may give you some ideas for future plans if it takes your fancy. It would also obviously allow you room to check out some other destinations first if it doesn't.

If you settle for that, I'd leave the dog with a trusted dog-sitter for the time being; I know I was happy I did mine, and mostly on their behalf. India can be stressful enough on a human visitor. If you have a husky-type dog or something: Think doubly twice about taking them at all. I have my doubts about people keeping them in Western Europe even, although I've seen them in India. In both cases, it seems to be a status symbol more than anything else though and one might ask what fun is it to the dog, and not just in terms of the climate which must be a killer for them, but considering their temperament. Unless you can get them to work for you on a daily basis which they enjoy and need, don't even think about it, and this may prove very hard in an Indian urban environment, the heat again quite apart. (And make no mistake what might look to you like a "village" there would easily pass as a provincial capital where I live, the definition even lead to a silly fight on some thread here recently. Darjeeling isn't Delhi but it's hardly off the face of the planet either, in fact many reports here complain how it's getting so overbuilt and congested.)

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larsomat

Hi, I'm certainly not qualified to give you any tips for your adventure, as I've been to India only once and it was 10 years ago and I stayed most of the times in the mountains (which is not really India). I'm only active in this forum, because finally I'll go to India again in a few weeks.

And first and foremost I'd like to say: If you feel like it, do it.

But:

Given my limited experience, these are some of the most helpful tips, you can get regarding the mindset that is required. India is some strange country. I love it. But, in all honesty, if you are easily offended by the comments here, you'll have a hard time. You'll find many situations far worse than this, while being there. I did. It didn't keep me from liking this country, but I've seen many westeners going nuts, because of the "strange" (for westeners) behaviour of the Indian people. Some can deal with it, and some just can't.

So you talked to many people who've been to India. But they all have been there as "guests". India is well known for its hospitality, I've experienced it for myself: In most places you are very welcome to be a "guest". I was very overwhelmed by this hospitality, really, it's quite wonderful. But I also heard of people who were living there for extended periods. Be prepared to "never" be an integral part of the community, be prepared to always be an "outsider". After all: being a "guest" is completely different from being a "local".

I don't want to tell you: "Don't do it.". After all, I thought about it (slightly) myself sometimes, because it's such a great place. I just want to warn you: India is a bit weird, and whether you like it or not also depends on your ability to deal with strange situations.

To everybody with more India-experience: If I'm wrong, please correct me.

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ashakasha

Well...those last few posts were much easier to read. A humble thanks for that.

Clearly you all love India for some reason- and at some point you yourselves had to GO there- having not been before!

We moved to a tropical island in the caribbean- no-not India- but a very hot, strife ridden, creepy crawler infested, hostile, absurdly corrupt, extraordinarily expensive, hurricane whipped, miserably crowded tropical island. We knew no one- had 4500 dollars, a kid, a big, hairy dog- and 1 large backpack each. Actually, we intended to stay on a particular island- and had all kinds of misinformation about living there. So, we get off our plane, pay a ridiculous fee of $80 to taxi a 1/2 mile away to the ferry which took us to the island we wanted to live on. Though our lonely planet book had stated that the island was a national park and that camping was allowed on the public beaches (and dogs were welcome), this was not true. There were gov't campgrounds, but they were all booked- and no dogs allowed. So, there we sat- our bags and dog on the beach- us sipping a margarita wondering what to do. A local told us about a small beach that is always deserted and allowed dogs. So- we bought some noodles and sauce...and a bottle of rum...took a taxi to the beach- and pitched a tent next to an old building. We stayed for 2 blissful weeks (we had a tiny cooking stove to make basic meals with). We realized my son needed to get to school and that we could not live on this island. So, my husband hiked into the mountain and hid most of our stuff under some old palm branches..and we returned to the more populated, crazy island. We rented a car (which we slept in 2 nights)- found a small apartment (short term and expensive) in the home of a kind, but surly German couple. My husband lucked into a job as a 1st mate on a sailboat. Many things really sucked- big time. The locals were mean, lazy, and incredibly mean- getting anything done involved a bureaucratic process that was laughable, but also made you want to pull your hair out...and took ALL DAY- if you were lucky to get it done in a day. Funny, if you pay an "expeditor" (a local making a business of helping non-locals) to do it for you, it took 5 minutes max. But it took us nearly a year to figure out that we could do that. We eventually rented a place in the thick of the woods- on the farming side of the island...down the side of a mountain...that was actually an old house that burned down and this was the basement. We paid $900 per month. We had giant rats that feared nothing and kicked my dog's ass, spiders as big as my head that could leap vertically, scorpions, ants, frogs that screeched, giant crabs, biting gnats, termites, iguanas, lizards...etc. all making themselves at home among us.

Eventually, we moved into a giant house on the hill (with the tradewinds) that the german couple had vacated to move into a smaller apartment (they only charged us $1100!!!!). It was incredible. I was finally after a year offered a job as a resource director at a local social service agency- but we left. We were just done with the place. No regrets...just wasn't for us. And that was our first attempt at going to India (almost 3 years ago). But, the person who bought our little Jeep from us wrote us a bad check, so once we got back in the states, we didn't have that money and we couldnt prosecute because it was on a foreign (corrupt) island. So- our dreams of India were put on hold. So, now we feel ready to try again.

I realize (as best I can without having been there before) that India will be very different. It isnt that I haven't "researched"- I've probably done more research than many do before going (I'm actually driving my husband rather crazy with it all)...and I talk to all of my friends who have been...and hear their stories.

My husband spent 6 mos. in e.africa, 7 mos. in s.east asia- 7 mos. in c.america, and together we have spent a total of about a year in s.america- not staying in fancy hotels and flying around, but staying in small, local "hostels" buying our own food from the market, and taking the small trains and cramped buses the locals do.

I think we might be able to handle a year in India. It may not work out as we expect- we may not end up in Darjeeling. We may have really bad experiences- we've developed a strange tolerance for that kinda stuff.

If things get really bad, we can always seek refuge at the math (the "headquarters" for the temple I lived in for 2 years in US) which is in Nabadwip. We have family that can afford to help us return home quickly, should we run out of money or whatever.

I smoke and drink, so thank you, Peak, for the very good advice.
Asha has her rabies vac. but I think she will have to have another 6 weeks before we go? We may not take her...still on the fence about that. We will only do so if we have something set up ahead of time before we go. Don't want to be moving around with her- its too much a pain.

I would never want to take employment from locals. Though people should be mindful that sooo many of our jobs here in America have been outsourced to India. So, when I want to talk to someone about my credit card or cell phone, I almost always talk to an Indian. OK with me. I was only thinking of some way to bring in some modest income. I was thinking maybe we could start our own small business of sorts that could create jobs and we could give a percentage to local charities...such as the Tibetan Self-help center in Darjeeling...or the orphanage.

Thanks for the info folks...

machadinha

? Y'r most welcome, but if that was meant to include me, I was afraid I'd been far more cynical than some respondents before me? I seem to have a reputation for gruffness with some anyway.

Oh well, the finer nuances of cybercommunication... It ain't easy, not seeing nor knowing one another, that's for sure.

Give this board some time, it's generally a friendly place really. And the more time you can invest in your queries (without overloading people with information), the better chance at getting the answers you seek.

And search around some first, get a "feel" for the board, and I'm sure people will be willing to help you out. In fact they already have, a ruff start tho' it may have seemed to you.

ashakasha

Now, Larsomat, that was well-taken advice. And got me thinking. I won't lie: I had this warm, fuzzy idea that folks would be smiling and embracing us, oohing and aahhing at our crazy looking dog. Pinching my son's cheeks...so glad to have us there. So, now- maybe we won't have SUCH a rude awakening!

That was a good point to make...the guest vs. the person living there. Definitely sounds similar to our experience on the island. We were so taken aback by how rude people were to us... It is funny- at first we would just get grumpy and fuming . Then, I learned the art of being aggressive, direct, and demanding- and they responded much better to me...hmmm . I don't quite get it, but it worked, and after a while I had many islanders as friends.

My friend, Elon, who lived in India for 15 years with his family was over for supper talking to us about India and instructed my husband that he must be aggressive and speak to them in such a way and walk tall. My husband thought he was crazy.

He also said we would have to hire servants. Is this true??? Do people who live there actually have nannys and maids and such?

machadinha

Can I just ask where in the Caribbean this was? You don't need to answer. I partly hail from there. If you found life there difficult... well, it can be in some ways, but it's not exactly renowned to be. Nor would I say this is the best approach to life there. Although people will be less roundabout about some things than Westerners might be -- to my delight, I might add. Not at all in many other fields though.

Just has me wondering...

I also don't quite understand this: You say you've never lived abroad, except in Canada. But then you have. Or what, precisely? Can you convince us this thread is serious at all?

ashakasha

I don't understand, Machadinha? Why would I need to convince you that the thread is real?

I guess I don't consider an island in the caribbean to be another country- but I suppose it was. I meant like...moving to a whole other part of the world. The caribbean is rather close to the US...oh well. So, with exception to the year and 1/2 on the island and our extensive travels overseas, this would be the first time actually living on another continent...in a completely different culture.

As far as the approach- I didn't mean to come across as though I was shouting and demanding. I actually prefer to be friendly and warm. But this would get you no where there...the islanders would just ignore you- or intentionally stall...or simply walk away- and if you kindly persisted, they would become hostile. Hahaha! I was working on a boat...the company feeds us meals each day. Most of the food is island food (strange fish, starfish, etc.), which I don't eat, because I am a strict vegetarian. I dared glance at some french fries one day and Pearl screams "Those aren't for you!!!" and slams her fist on the counter. Ha! Boy did my son ever have a time at the public school- they "won't be toleratin' anyting!"

I once had a cop stop in the middle of the road, in front of me, and insist that I had run a red light- she shouted into my window- let tis be the last red light you be runnin'...hehehehe...I didnt run a red light. Just wackiness.

I just learned to stand my ground-respectfully, but very assertively. And, sorry, but it worked- and I got much more respect...and I got things DONE.

larsomat

<crossposting> Don't remember where it was, but she told about it before.

ashakasha

BTW- it was the Virgin Islands...I didn't include that initially because I figured you guys would just give me the

I tink everyone was so grumpy there because it was so dang hot . It got me thinking that maybe some of you are somewhere very hot- and that is why you all are so ornery....

machadinha

Sure, the Virgin Islands are not really abroad but just like a suburb of Miami (other than Venezuela, for instance). Yet the locals are "mean, lazy, and incredibly mean," esp. to those who arrive with a handful of dollars and their dog and kid in tow and not a clue except for what their Lonely Planet has to offer which they then complain about for not being right, and who somehow miraculously manage to survive for 1.5 years regardless, all due to their own resourcefulness no doubt. They also overcharge newcomers for their first taxi ride, who are willing to pay it nonetheless. Such a shame, it could have been a real idyll without them nasty locals.

I think you're in for a treat... Maybe stick to those friends who are willing to attest that India is just "far out, man," I think your chances of success listening to either them or to us are just about even. What exactly do you expect to find there if a place you consider so much at home was so hard on you?

larsomat

@machadinha: actually, I don't get your cynicism. I for myself have only been to Europe and India. And I know that India is quite "different".
You seem to have some "international experience".
Is India really "that" different?
This is an honest question, I'd really like to know...

pundabee

Terrible advice. Are you sure he didn't mean Indiana?

And no, you don't need servants. It is a life style decision.

machadinha

It's a good question. Briefly for now, I should be back on it later: I guess the obvious answer is all places are different.

There were things in India that reminded me of my Caribbean youth; there were many more specifics that didn't. I'd say it's certainly a very different place as compared to say Latin America yes. What previous travel will hopefully do to you is to just be open to the experience. But the mix of the quaint and the familiar will be very different yes; you'll realize all of South American culture today consists largely of imported influences, with European and today American ones the dominant factor, and then of course the past of slavery and its African influences, and native culture coming somewhere down the line... Which is not to say all those countries don't have a culture all of their own; it's just very different in every respect (and those countries and islands themselves will all be different again, of course).

I should also specify I was a kid at the time (in the C.), I wasn't in charge with running our lives there. But it obviously taught me some things. It will have obviously taught any other individual from there other things again. Witness this board, too, re: India. Or ask two of your countrymen about your place.

But generally with people coming back with horror stories from (or certain expectations of) anywhere, my first instinct is to ask well maybe you didn't (or will you be able to) adjust or adapt all that well? There's no shame if you didn't, some people just can't in some places -- but those that didn't somehow don't tend to take kindly to the suggestion even. No, it was all due to the locals, the climate, the food, the bureaucracy (certainly a major issue in India btw, and you'd better keep smiling) -- well, you catch my drift. And then they don't even understand common universalistic English! Etc. and so on.

Yes, it gets me cynical, I'm very sorry. I always wish we'd be a little more understanding of immigrants to my country in turn.

ps I thought that earlier post of yours above most to-the-point Lars (#33). Kind of says it all, really.

larsomat

hahaha,
yes i laugh about it now, but it will certainly drive me crazy again when i'm back. at least it will provide me with some "unbelievable" stories.
i guess, that's the mindset needed to enjoy the stay. don't know how i'd deal with it, if i'd be really dependend on the outcome, apart from my next busride or money-exchange.

that could be really frustrating...

@ashakasha: as a tip. we might laugh about it here. but the Indian people take that "very" (as in veryvery) serious. seriously!