Americans moving to Darjeeling (maybe)

edwardseco

I'll check it out then!

Can't add to that.

OP, this is a big time issue that you seem to be at a disadvantage in, in terms of experience. I suggest a tour first and then a lengthy stay in one place. A narrow US experience doesn't get you far in a big, diverse world. Please note medical issues come up and note the restriction of domesticity on Medicare. Cheers..

ashakasha

Sama- I just want to reply quickly to you and the clapper...and then in more depth to the other posts. It wasn't so much the practical aspect of what you shared, but more the tone. I was really excited to get up this morning and see if anyone had replied to my post. My heart just sunk a bit when I read your post... I wanted to hear people's suggestions, thoughts, concerns, etc., but I had hoped folks would take the time (if they bothered at all) to relay it in as kind and helpful a manner as possible- I just felt mocked.

I welcome you to share your perspective, but if you could share it more kindly, it would be much easier to receive. No need to make fun of us.

dzibead

Good grief. If this is your reaction to the posts here, your skin just may not be thick enough to withstand dealing with India and its bureaucracy - and that should be bureaucracy with a capital "B". The feedback you've been given here so far could end up saving you a lot of heartache in the future that will make the sinking feeling you had when you read the posts pale by comparison.

ashakasha

I just don't see any need for folks to be rude- but hey- what do I know, right?

You folks don't know much about me- where I've been, for how long, what my own philosophies are, what I am seeking, etc. etc. So, it just seems arrogant to be on here slashing away, assuming I know nothing- and will faint at the first sight of...INDIA!

Maybe I will! Maybe I'll be running for the airport after a week (I doubt it, but you never know)! You know what? That's OK with me. I'm no stranger to poverty (maybe it is far worse in India- and I am as prepared to witness that as I can be- without having seen it yet). BUT- I've never wanted to shelter myself from that. Why should I be spared the plight of others? Why shouldn't I know what others go through to simply live? Most Americans would benefit hugely from that awareness! I know of the plight of animals in american factory farms- and it kills me- but I don't allow myself to look away. I couldn't be more grateful to have looked at that with big, open eyes a long time ago.

Funny that, those who know us personally, who have either traveled extensively through, or lived, in India- were never this rude and nasty about it. They shared the concerns and practicalities, but also wished us well and said the experience would change our lives. That was so cool...and it is kinda what I expected here.

It is no different than if we were simply traveling for a year there. I know a couple that are in Goa right now, doing just that. They were in Mumbai working for a group that provides hospice to folks dying of aids and works to keep kids off drugs...now are in Goa relaxing for a bit. They just left Ghana (Africa)- and were shocked and appalled- and LOVE INDIA! Go figure.

I lived in an ashram for 2 years- with Indians and others from all over the world- all of whom had traveled to India or stayed for long periods. Again- none of this hostility- warnings and advice, but no anger and ridicule.

I just came here for friendship and sharing of information. Sorry to have obviously upset you folks.

We will go- give it a try for at least a few months- and if it works out for us to stay longer (and we still want to) fabulous- otherwise, we'll move on. No big freaking deal.

Thanks so kindly for the warm welcome.
I would love to hear from folks who can share information without being nasty and hateful.

Namaste, folks.

Nick-H

<cross-posted: haven't read your post 19. Will do now, but it's bed time!>

Actually, you have been given a pretty kind reception --- largely because I think you have given the impression that your head is not entirely in the clouds about the whole thing.

Browsing some of the older stuff on the site would probably leave you horrified by the number of posters, over the years, who simply believe that they can live in India, indefinately, buy property, whatever, just because they want to. When told it is not like that, even with lengthy explanations, one is repaid by an arrogant, come on, there must be a way! response. One tends to get a bit snappy in the face of that, and to forget that for each new person posing such questions, for them it is the first time.

Sama really put it very mildly: we have to ask if you are aware of the initial big hurdles which make it, for many, effectively impossible to move to India.

Unlike another member, I got the impression that you had been to India already? But I still think that you should spend a protracted amount of time in the area in which you are considering living (or at least having a base if the visa issue prevents it fro being full time). I know little about N. India, but isn't Darjeeling, for starters, one of the wettest places in the world? That could be pretty tough to live with!

I've had a home in India since the beginning of 2005, and it has been my only home since the end of 2005. If I have a regret it is that I could not have (or didn't manage finance and events well enough to have) kept a home in my mother country as well. If you have the money to travel as you please, I see no reason why you should not choose to do so spending the maximum allowable time in India.

Most areas have their periods of the year when it would be nicer to be somewhere else: I would be quite content to abandon Chennai every April and May!

I do not have long-term visa problems; I am married to an Indian citizen, but if I did, and I was a US citizen able to get a 10-yr visa, and I was a bit richer, I'd be happy to go somewhere else every six months and have a rented house in India.

However, Brits (and others who's maximum tourist visa is also 6 months) who are trying to do India on repeated tourist visas are being refused new 6-month visas, and being given much shorter ones.

This is a trend, and it must be taken into consideration that India may increase the restrictions to the point where length of stay is not determined by your visa validity, but by the immigration officer you meet on your arrival. Other countries do this: I've seen an Indian family at Heathrow, being told that they can only stay in UK for 2 months.

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Nick-H

That's reasonable.

We've explained to you why we may not be exactly brimming over with patience at some ideas, but nasty and hateful? No, I don't think so, and if I did I (or another member of the team) would be putting my moderator hat on. You came to a place with a wide membership of non-Indians, Indians both resident and non-resident, resident ex-pats etc etc, many of whom really do know what they are talking about.

I've always thought devil's advocacy is amazingly useful. If you can have an idea, and make it to the surface after everyone has poured cold water on it, it will be a better, stringer idea for it. Or it won't have survived.

If people can take the time and trouble to explain some of the negative stuff, then take it in good spirit, or, frankly, we may as well not bother.

dzibead

I don't think the major point of most of what you've been told is that you'll be "shocked at India" and will be running for the airport in a week. It's that there are technicalities and legalities that may constrain your hopes and plans to move to India long-term. You said that what you wanted to do was "no different than if we were simply traveling for a year there." Well, that's not how you described your plans, and sorry, I beg to differ that there's no difference between traveling there for a year and planning to move there, especially if you thought you'd be able to work if all you have is a tourist visa, even a ten-year one.

You said others "wished [you] well and said the experience would change [your] lives" and that was the reaction you expected here. That's all well and good and India probably will change your lives, but that doesn't change the fact that there are technical and legal issues involved in trying to stay long-term that those other well-wisher apparently didn't address with you, which people here were trying to bring to your attention. If all you want is cheer-leading, what's the point? And don't you think those of us who have responded to you also "love India" and know that it can "change your life"? Why the heck do you think most of us (especially the non-Indians) are on this site, anyway? After all, we've all actually been there, which you have not.

And where's the "anger and ridicule" in what anyone has said to you? Quite honestly I don't see anything rude or nasty about what you've been told so far ... although I am starting to get annoyed with your attitude, I must say.

And, yeah, what Nick said (cross-posted with him).

ashakasha

Well...just would be nice if the negative could be explained with some respect, that's all. I don't think I was disrespectful to anyone with my initial post...just put some ideas out there and asked for some thoughts. Oh well...

What I could weed out of the mockery was good, though. I realize that we should take some time to travel about...the only concern was my son's schooling...which we are working on. I'm currently in regular contact with folks at a number of schools- some in Darjeeling, some elsewhere. This seems positive, so far. Also, the schools don't start until Dec-Feb from what I could gather. This would give us some additional time to check out different areas...and to really decide if we want to stay longer term. We could also consider home-schooling, though the cultural and social experience was something I thought would be awesome for my son.

As far as visas, though I mostly knew already what has been shared here, we'll do the best with what we can get and work out.
If one needs to extend a visa, can they travel to, say, Thailand (where I have family), spend some time, and then return with visa re-newed? How does this work (ideally)?

I don't mind rain...sometimes in Alaska, it rains for a whole month. But I can see that this would get old and perhaps that makes for a good time to travel elsewhere.

I guess I was definitely naive about the work situation. In south america, you can work for other companies...not necessarily legally (especially tourist centered businesses...adventure tours and such). That's OK too...we'll just have to make another way....perhaps the teaching. We really don't want to do the exporting thing...just not for us. But- we're fortunate that, if something should go horribly south for us, we have easily accessible safety nets here.

How much readily available $$ should one have, ideally, if they wanted to spend 6 mos to a year (very modestly) in India?

What is the process for renting a place of your own in Darjeeling (if this is possibly at all, of course...)?

We have lead different lives than you might associate with most americans. While I won't tolerate much needless abuse and disrespect from other travelers, I would consider myself very hardy when it comes to travel and street-smarts. I think we will be fine- come what may. Comfort and complacency make me uncomfortable- that is why I need to move...explore...experience. Thank God I found my husband that is much the same.

I have wanted to travel India for over a decade (since my time in the ashram...when I first came in contact with Indian philosophy, culture, religion, food, etc.)...I've read almost all that I can, I've studied maps, talked to my friends who are from or lived there, etc. We have traveled extensively elsewhere...each time with the opportunity to go to India- but I wanted it to be the right time...with enough time...so we went somewhere else. I feel ready now. Why shouldn't we go, then?

I have to try- and hopefully we will be blessed in our journey- or maybe we will be sent in another direction. Either way, I feel I'm ready.

Thanks.

ashakasha

Well...it seems I can't avoid offending you folks. That was honestly that farthest thing from my intention.

Again- I wanted to hear the truth...the concerns, etc. But I thought they might be shared with some level of common courtesy.
I'm going to refrain from responding here...I think this has just gone in a very negative direction... not sure anymore if it is me, or you folks, or if we just couldn't connect...

dzibead

You seem to think people are telling you not to go to India or that you won't be able to "take" it. But that's not the case. They're telling you that there are logistical/technical/legal obstacles to "moving" there or to "settling" there long-term, which is what you said you planned to do. OK, OK, some people have also said, "What? you're going to move your family there and you've never even visited there yet? " -- but come on, why is that rude or lacking in respect or "common courtesy"??? It seems like a pretty sensible question to me and it has nothing to do with whether they think you'll be able to "take" India. They'd probably ask the same question if you were planning to move to Paris or London or Los Angeles and had never set foot there. If all you want is people saying, in effect, "Great! Good for you! It'll change your life!", how informative is that? If you think hard information and feedback that may not be exactly what you hoped to hear are rude, then maybe you should look for information elsewhere.

edwardseco

Some of us have seen people just jump in and make a very bad life judgement in this regard. I have personally experienced this with relations. We will tend to warn people of the real challenges instead of just passing them by. Sometimes hard news is just that.

One time my wife was swimming in rough water when she started to drown. She sank like a rock but for once I moved fast and just managed to grab her hair and pull her up and to shore. When she finally came around she was all over me for pulling her hair, kaliyug..

Nick-H

Frankly,Ashakasha, if you are so easily upset, you'll certainly never stand India. People have tried to help, and all the negativity has been on your side.

This is just a bulletin board. Rural India is a place where misunderstandings can lead to being lynched.

Good luck.

capt_mahajan

(crossposted, the laugh is for edwardseco's drowning wife... oops, that sounds wrong )

From 'Something Happened' by Joseph Heller, read long ago but this stands out, paraphrased

"If I came into the room shouting, the sky is falling, the world is coming to an end", my wife would look up and say, "you don't have to shout at me".

Ashakasha, please realise that you are being given time and opinions in good faith. When we seek opinions, we can't really determine the content- or indeed the tone- of responses. We should just be glad strangers tried to help.

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federica

Two weeks ago I came across almost the same discussion on a German bulletin board about India. On the one hand, I felt sorry for the OP as all his zest for adventure and courage was put down by long term posters. On the other hand I could understand their concerns, as they have lived long enough in India and met too many people who never made it there and lost a lot.

In Germany it is "in" at the moment to migrate to other countries and start a new life there. Lots of TV reports are broadcasted on different channels. Some families are successful, some are not.
For me it is heartbreaking to see people who even can't afford going back to their native country after being stranded abroad.

So what to do? I think you need a little bit of craziness to start a new life in a foreign country where you`ve never been before, especially when you are going with your family.

It's like hiking in the mountains: when you know how tough it really will be maybe you'll never go and you'll miss the beautiful view from the top... but you should know that it can be tough to be physically and mentally prepared.

Ashakasha, I think a lot of your questions (vis etc.)are answered already on this forum, just browse the search function and use the similar threads function at the end of the page. Like this you can avoid annoyed answers from long term posters here

At the same time you'll come accross the problem posters and you'll realize why so many concerns are raised in this thread.

For all questions left you can get really helpful information here and meet nice people from all over the world

Sama

ain't that the truth!

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