Volunteering in India: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Nick-H

Delhi I can't speak for, but I suspect that it is no worse than the Indian city in which I live.

The last time I saw a child dieing on the streets was, errr.... Nope; I have never seen a child dieing, or dead, on the street.

Yes, there is poverty, yes, I'm sure that the infant mortality statistics are not great, and that life expectancy is probably lower for many. I'm sure that many people die of many things that might have been both preventable or curable in a country with better health care freely available.

I do not want to try and paint a picture of India that is unduly rosy; there is a lot of stuff wrong here, but I think your view, at least of urban Indian life, is a bit too harsh.

__________________
.


Just one member of the IndiaMike Mod Team

Haylo

Nick's right, though it does stop me from making an amusing, though possibly inappropriate comment.

I think people have all sorts of reasons for choosing to support one charity sector over another, they are often personal and it is not fair to expect people to justify their choices. I know that I would not feel comfortable posting on here the reasons for supporting the charities I have chosen.

Of course, not every decision seems rational, but if someone for instance has had a lifelong interest in Grevy's Zebras, telling them that actually the North Atlantic Cod is in more need of their help is not likely to make them set sail!

Totally off topic, but I do find it interesting that people look at the same things and interpret them differently. Presumably you Nick, being resident, have a clearer picture of the reality.

Bwass

I haven't been in India yet and so absolutely don't pretend to know more than any other dude who has read a bit about it, actually, the level of poverty in India, however how bad I may have depicted it, is quite alien to the main beef here, although I'm sorry if I was saying more than I actually knew...point taken anyway
nevertheless, my point/interrogation more like, was more concerning the choice to volunteer for ANIMALS when tyhere is so much poverty out there (India and elsewhere)

Hey there Haylo,

I totally agree with you on the fact that people shouldn't have to justify their choices about charities and volunteering, that is why I really don't make any judgment of any sort, I'm sorry if my post may have seemed to show any such kind of judment. However, I was asking this purely out of personal interest, and the question was really intended to b open to anyone who has a similar view or similar interests about animals. (Actually, if anyone needs to know, I have been a fervent defender of animal rights, etc. a few years ago and I'm sort of trying to determine how, when and why I made the switch to more humanitarian interests)
I am quite willing to admit however that it's sort of completely out of context though...

Nick-H

Someone asked me yesterday how I cope with the huge disparity between rich and poor in India.

Well, I don't really... I neither mix with the very rich, nor with the very poor, but I know people who live in huts and, obviously (when I can be dragged away from a PC) I see the streets of the city I live in. I don't even live in a particularly posh part of it, either.

grikoo

There are many types of poverty, and a big difference between economic poverty and say, for example....lack of food. Very different things with very different results. India has plenty of the former, but not so much of the latter.

I think you'll find it's not at all the type of poverty you imagine.

In it's own way, India does take care of it's own, at least for the most part. People may live in slums, may wear rags, may die at a comparatively young age, but they do generally eat for the most part, which is better than many areas of the world.

Of course, no doubt, there are a lot of people who are sick and hungry and such, but I think the culture supports them a little better than they would be here. Here in the US, I think alot of people would rather throw a brick at a sick homeless guy, than give him any help at all. At least in India, the giving of alms is part of their culture.

kristinm

I must say I found the type of poverty you see in India much as described above by Grikoo, it didn't elicit the same despair and anger in me that I feel when I see footage of Darfur, or the devastation in Burma or China for instance. Just because people are living in village huts on basic food doesn't mean they should be the targets of charities or to be pitied - I saw much dignity in very 'impoverished' lives in India.

I do believe the Indian Government is reaping the rewards of the economic boom and not filtering enough downwards quickly enough, and I heard many stories of corruption in local and State Governments.I think if the boom continues the number of working people living on the streets will greatly increase - there is simply nowhere for people who come to the cities to work to live & no one seems to be doing much about it.

But overall, I did not feel the urge to volunteer or donate to a charity. Individually, of course, some rupees or food here and there and in the boxes in the temples or similar.

Apart from the micro-economy projects that are operating as joint projects between NGOs and the Government that is - which I think are doing some really great stuff.

Here in Australia our indigenous people live in as bad or worse conditions than many 'poverty stricken' Indians, and in far more remote places with less access to anything and a history of mistreatment and exclusion to boot. But I don't believe it is the place for a charity to step in - it is firmly in the Government's court to ensure all Australians have a basic living standard, health and education.

Similarly the Indian Government will only continue to shirk their obligations if well meaning charities and volunteers do their job for them. Schools, emancipation, literacy levels, medicine, basic living standards - all the job of the Government IMO.. but then I'm an old leftie. Save the charity for natural disasters, refugees and war zones - that's where my charity money goes.

When I returned I wrote to the Indian Tourism minister or department saying what a wonderful trip we had and all, and commenting that the rubbish everywhere and obvious inequalities in the distribution of wealth & homeless working people in the large cities did not reflect well on the Government. If everyone did that it might achieve nothing - or might achieve more than giving to a charity... who knows.

suzi

Bwass,

Sorry to arrive late to answer your questions, but as Nick wisely pointed out there is no point in debating kids vs. animals so I am not going to bother to justify why I prefer to volunteer for the street dogs, cats, cows, horses, etc. I will point out that this is certainly not the first time time that I have been asked this (though usually it is not asked as thoughtfully as you have, it is usually has a more accusatory tone) and I always find it funny that the person who has the gall to ask isn't doing anything for any kid or animal in India which makes me wonder why they think they have the right to question me. Just an observation. Anyway, since I think you have noted that you haven't been to India, come over and take a look at the street animals for yourself and then ask me why I think they are deserving of some care also. There are enough people in this country of means that if each person just did a little there would be more than enough for all of the kids and the animals.

PS-Just to put your mind at ease Bwass, my husband and I also make yearly donations to Oxfam for women's education and children's care here in India.

__________________
I personally believe that U.S. Americans are unable to do so because, uhmmm, some people out there in our nation don’t have maps

kristinm

Just to add .. I did feel quite upset sometimes at the state of the animals - particularly the dogs - I guess you interact a lot with the people.. and realise that many are funny and happy and cheeky and LOVED (despite?) their apparent circumstances. The dogs on the other hand are just miserable, badly treated and skeletal & hated by everyone.. it does tend to get to you - even to me who is not a mushy animal person.

Nick-H

Chennai dogs are mostly in relatively decent condition.

However, my wife went to a function some miles outside of Chennai a few weeks ago, and told me that she was shocked to see the bad condition of the dogs.

Kristin... I used to say much the same thing about welfare in UK! Not only that it was the government's responsibility, but that they took a substantial amount of money from my salary every month to finance it! But that is governments. Like the car thing: British drivers pay a huge amount of money in initial purchase tax, annual road tax and taxes on fuel, only to be told, "Soon you will have to pay for using the roads; you can't expect it to ogo on being free!". Free? Since when? I don't understand why people are so stupid as to swollow the government's ideas on this any more than the welfare thing. But then, I'm a bit of an old-fashioned leftie too: I believe that government's job is to look after people, and to levy taxes so that that is financed.

There is certainly room for charity in India, and there are many charitable people. Lots of good people, for instance, pay for the education of children of poorer families.

Interesting posts from you guys. I was wondering, last night, if I should be more shocked than I am about the conditions I see around me here. In a better India, there would not be people living on the streets. I see plenty of those people, and I know that life is pretty damned hard, and unpleasant at times, for them --- but I do not see starvation. In fact some of those families, with itinerant workers, are not at all short of money on a day-to-day basis.

Bwass

Hi there guys!

Suzi; On second thought I think you're totally right the debate is quite useless. Oh, and I really didn't need the last part, I'm sure you're a tremendous person and I'm absolutely not judging your volunteering choice (who would I be to judge anyway, I still haven't been there) Anyway as I pointed out earlier I was more asking because I was an animal lover as a kid, signing petitions, etc. and as inconsiderate as it may seem, I'm just basically just shocked at how much I really just don't seem to care anymore about the animals, unless if it's in a way linked to the humans who share an ecosystem/planet with them.

Nick-H ; I' a leftie too but what I believe is that a government also has the responsibility to ensure that the future generations will have the financial means to maintain those social programs (wellfare, universal healthcare and education, etc.) that's why it's good to have a few government cashcows like the electric company here in Quebec to keep everything running for the future and to help maintaining a healthy economy. I also strongly believe that social entrepreneurship can do a lot for the world if we develop a culture of strong and profitable companies (not just NGO's) whose ultimate goals are BOTH to make profit and to help people, hence fair trade, micro credit etc. NGO's surely have a lot to do too, but people still have to earn a living so why not do both at the same time? You definitely have more time and energy to devote to helping people if it's also your job than if, in your great sense of personal sacrifice and devotion to your values, find time to volunteer apart from getting the kids to school, filing that important report, make dinner etc. Plus if it becomes mainstream, the "bad guys" lose and people who don't care or don't have time, etc. also start working for the empowerment of the poor or the opressed: everybody wins. AND like it or not, it's sort of a plus that on top of everything else, there's someone who cares who gets rich instead of Dick Cheney (which, by the way has absolutely no chance in the world of not being Satan/Lucifer/the Antechrist)

My two cents (mmm perhaps three there lol)

P.S. : No seriously, no metaphor there, the guy is satan, the sweep-over is to hide his pointed horns.

kristinm

Nick, I agree the wealthy Indians - and boy are they wealthy - should definitely find room for charity. I have nothing against philanthropy - particularly for one's own people, and particularly when you are the beneficiary of very very cheap labour and favourable business conditions - lets not forget the Indian economic miracle is being built on the back of cheap labour and unregulated working conditions. If Indian contruction companies say had to observe a fraction of the health and safety regulations that they do here, their profits would plummet.

Like I said I have no problem with other countries or NGOs providing training or whatever.. Its more the charities from outside that build schools etc... what they should do (IMO) is lobby the Indian or local Government to build the schools & draw attention to the fact that that area has no school, and offer to train teachers or provide voluntary English teachers.. and don't get me started about charities with a religious agenda.. that really concerns me.

grikoo

On my first trip to India, I hired a bicycle rickshaw driver for a couple of weeks in Varanasi. Eventually, he invited me to his 'house' for tea. He had moved there from calcutta, and lived in a sort of concrete shanty in a slum area. Garbage and sewage all over the road. It was the dirtiest, most foul area I had ever been in at the time. But when I went in to his 3x3 m room, it was absolutely and totally clean, everything in order, the dirt floor somehow dust free. And his wife was absolutely gorgeous and obviously happy and well cared for. I was so surprised to see the level of dignity that they had in their meager lives. It really opened my eyes to the situation there.

I think much of our perception of poverty comes from our ethnocentric view of what's 'proper'. If your family is well fed and you make an honest living, what does it matter if you live in a shack?

It's very different than the western way.

grikoo

I think it's specifically due to the reasons you state that it's unlikely to have government intervention.

Personally, I'm against the teaching of english in rural areas, as the residents simply then move to the cities, further aggravating overpopulation in those areas.

kristinm

Exactly - I did not have much patience with those people who were wailing and carrying on about the poverty - I've even heard of people who 'couldn't handle it' and came home. Firstly its offensive to assume that a different way of life is worse than your own & also, if people really are suffering - and some are of course - why make it all about yourself?

And secondly it is, as you say, a very Eurocentric view on life.

Of course people should have access to health care and education and basic requirements which in many cases they don't...

& I guess some of the more unpalatable 'traditions' will die out as India joins the developing world (child labour, suppression of women etc).

You do have a point about the English teaching too - unless of course there is an industry such as tourism in the local area which could provide employment for an English speaker - we ran across quite a few guesthouse owners etc who were using their kids English skills to draw in customers and communicate with them.

Bwass

Griko, I totally and completely with you, there are different ways of living and you don't necessarily need a lot to live happily, and some people not only in India, live very happily with almost nothing.
However I think there are limitations to this that need to be addressed:
1- People who want to change their situation should be given a fair opportunity to do so (education, government help, etc.)
2- People should have access to food, and live in conditions that permit them to be healthy (sanitation, access to healthcare)
I guess this is pretty obvious, but in a lot of the world it's quite far from reality unfortunately...