Saving Uttarakhand...

JonathanS · Sep 30th, 2009, 22:43

Hello. I no starter.
Yet I cannot sit and watch.

To begin with, my disgust is not on the way these hill stations are deteriorating but the very fact that people whose lively hoods depend on the scenic beauty of the place are not bothered of protecting it for their future.

I feel its about time, and before it’s too late, to come up with ways on how we can think of ways in which simple people like us, can help the people of Uttarakhand realize that what they are doing is not right.

I have been to other countries and have seen for myself, that people co-exit with their environment and find ways to make a living with their habitat.

I don’t know how, but a simple thing like, ensuring that no PET bottle or plastic bag is allowed in Uttarakhand would go a long way in saving the Himalayas.

I saw a father showing off to his 10 year old kid with a PEPSI PET bottle. As soon as the kid had finished off drinking the Pepsi, his father took the bottle and flung it far into the khud, just to prove to his son, how far he could throw the bottle. Isn’t this site so common? All you need to drive past the Bhatta falls on your way to Mussoorie and one can see the countless empty PET bottles, plastic bags and potato chip wrappers scattered all over the road-side. Similar site is seen when one passes thru the small waterfall that comes just as we go further up from Khurpatal… on the way to Nainital.

Thru this forum, I am inviting views of other IM members on ways of how we can do in our little bit, and save our precious Himalayas.

livinhimalayas · Sep 30th, 2009, 23:55

A good thought if ever there was one, do you know what a huge task it is. We are trying to do something similar here in Uttarkashi and so far no go! People think we are crazy, listen to us say yes yes yes and go back to their plastic bag culture. But if you do start something count me in.

Paleface · Oct 1st, 2009, 02:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonathanS

To begin with, my disgust is not on the way these hill stations are deteriorating but the very fact that people whose lively hoods depend on the scenic beauty of the place are not bothered of protecting it for their future.

Yes good, but the majority of Pahari's are not dependent upon the scenic beauty, they are dependent upon their fields and someone in the family earning an income. It's a complex web of forces - not the least exacerbated by the fact that Pahari loge are generally just subsisting, and tourism is a two month season, so options of generating alternative income are limited. If you have no savings or assets it's extremely difficult to become an entrepreneur - and to not collect grass from the hillsides for the cattle, to not collect/cut wood for fuel, to slog all day every day leaving little energy or time (especially the women) for deep ecology.

livinhimalayas · Oct 1st, 2009, 10:59

come on Paleface, we are talking of plastic culture and you yourself are a BIG opposer of it so why this?

kaustabh · Oct 1st, 2009, 12:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by livinhimalayas

come on Paleface, we are talking of plastic culture and you yourself are a BIG opposer of it so why this?

Hi, I think what Paleface want to say has some base. The statement may be bitter to listen but it is the ground reality. Mountain economy is trying not to be tourist dependent. Not fully done yet and may be never it will happen completely but attempts are being made.

One example, please take no offense. Some parasites coexists peacefully with the host and some kills its host. If we look at nature both type of species are thriving. If we human race follow the second path and destroy our host then how we can convince them? It is a very difficult task. There are huge short term success to show.

jyotirmoy · Oct 1st, 2009, 12:23

Sikkim has shown what can be done to preserve nature.

kaustabh · Oct 1st, 2009, 12:27

Hi JonathanS,
It is a fact that what you want to do is very difficult. I agree fully with livinhimalayas that most of the people are simply unaware of the need to save the nature. This involves creating mass awareness and education. Very few people will accept it willingly and gladly as it will harm their short term comfort and economic interests, but it is not a mission impossible. We need not do herculean tasks but give our small contributions. People like you are in minority but alone never. Here is one more person appreciate your thinking and ready to make his contributions.

trooooon · Oct 1st, 2009, 12:38

Plastic and pollution is but one part, important no doubt, what really gets me is when industry is shifted to the hills, or local construction typologies are phased out to bring in the same insensitive concrete houses which are going to cover the earth some day . . . When I see a small spitian village being concretised I wonder what answer I can give the locals for my displeasure, when it obviously fits right in to their view of development and a better world. Why should some of us have the right to pollute and not others. The closest answer I find is the tussle between America and China, one trying to attain the first world wasteful lifestyle and the other trying to push everyone off the top of the pyramid of consumption . . . Maybe we are better off targeting plastic actually

Paleface · Oct 1st, 2009, 14:06

Oh sorry JS, i see you were meaning plastics only! 'Saving Uttarakhand from Plastic'. Plastic bloody bags, bottles and Mad Angles packs are so easy to deal with that it continues to amaze me that 'conscious' folks don't put them in their pocket and take them home and to deal with later. Oh i put my plastic trash in the wastebin in my room at the hotel in Gangotri/Yamunotri/Badrinath/Kedar - they'll deal with it.

Problem about building is that i find myself having built a house, so thus denying others is a bit of hypocritical problem. Anyway at least i stay put in the main and plant trees and preserve, even enhance hopefully what natural surroundings we have, which are no doubt spectacular, pure perennial stream in the back yard etc.

The most stressful pressure on resources and cause for their diminishing availability is Tourism or Yatra... can it be stopped?

kaustabh · Oct 1st, 2009, 14:46

We should not think item wise, like plastic is a problem etc etc. The way we use it is the problem. The problem is increasing due to changing lifestyle/demand, increasing population, increasing number of tourists etc. But these things can not be stopped. That option is not there, all we can do is controlling and conducting it properly. Not all people do carry their water bottles to the dustbins, otherwise there would be no garbage dump next to Bheempool. Wareness must be created to solve this people. People will only act when they realize that this must be done.

trooooon · Oct 1st, 2009, 15:00

Its a big misnomer that dustbins help with waste management, its what happens after the dusbins . . . landfills mostly down stream of the village are everywhere, plastic is burnt or simply thrown down the khud by the panchayat or nagar nigam . . . plastic really needs to be banned, that's the on;y way, and that means no chips in plastic, no coke in pet bottles and most importantly water bottles!

JonathanS · Oct 1st, 2009, 15:43

Hi, trooooon is absolutely right, one has to just stop and see the face of real Nainital while your driving from the lake side towards Bhowali. Just near to where the Tourist buses are parked, there is a huge landfill... you cannot miss the stink and heaps of waste thrown carelessly into the khud.

Dear IM members, my intention of starting this thread, is not to make anyone feel guilty of not doing their bit. We all know and recognize that there is a problem. The intention in this thread is not to discuss the problem but how to tackle it. To find a way forward?

I know there are countless number of people who would be willing to show their support for this cause. I thank each one of you for that. But the need of the hour is... as a community and responsible citizens, what's the way forward...

Please advise.

Thanks
JS.

kaustabh · Oct 1st, 2009, 16:14

Plastic is poison, no doubt about that. But simply banning wont going to work. Before banning an alternative must be created. Plastic has penetrated all possible areas of our day to day activity. Considering our weak law enforcement and peoples lack of respect for laws I cant see success with a ban. Plastic carry bags are banned in Kolkata, so you can find it everywhere. Alternative must be created first and people must be educated.

The treatment of garbage is another major issue, thanks trooooon for bringing it up. Authorities are to be blamed. But we can not escape either. Authorities do not take it seriously because they knows we are not serious about it. They knows it is not a prime election issue. We have to make it one.

JonathanS · Oct 1st, 2009, 16:28

what about paper bags (brown colour) in place of plastic bags... i have seen shops in delhi (reliance fresh) ensuring that their customers either bring their own carry bags or they would charge extra Rs.5 for a green colour bag. this has really worked.

JonathanS · Oct 1st, 2009, 16:31

even our local chole bhature wala in our neighborhood market, gives his food-stuff in paper bags.
a couple of months back, i saw school children going about in the market and giving paper bags (made of newspaper) to shopkeepers and taking back their plastic bags.
it's not difficult to change the mindset if done logically and rationally.
Cheers. JS.

Sep 30th, 2009, 22:43	#1
JonathanS Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Delhi Posts: 27	Saving Uttarakhand... Hello. I no starter. Yet I cannot sit and watch. To begin with, my disgust is not on the way these hill stations are deteriorating but the very fact that people whose lively hoods depend on the scenic beauty of the place are not bothered of protecting it for their future. I feel its about time, and before it’s too late, to come up with ways on how we can think of ways in which simple people like us, can help the people of Uttarakhand realize that what they are doing is not right. I have been to other countries and have seen for myself, that people co-exit with their environment and find ways to make a living with their habitat. I don’t know how, but a simple thing like, ensuring that no PET bottle or plastic bag is allowed in Uttarakhand would go a long way in saving the Himalayas. I saw a father showing off to his 10 year old kid with a PEPSI PET bottle. As soon as the kid had finished off drinking the Pepsi, his father took the bottle and flung it far into the khud, just to prove to his son, how far he could throw the bottle. Isn’t this site so common? All you need to drive past the Bhatta falls on your way to Mussoorie and one can see the countless empty PET bottles, plastic bags and potato chip wrappers scattered all over the road-side. Similar site is seen when one passes thru the small waterfall that comes just as we go further up from Khurpatal… on the way to Nainital. Thru this forum, I am inviting views of other IM members on ways of how we can do in our little bit, and save our precious Himalayas. __________________ Attitude is a little thing that makes a big difference.

Sep 30th, 2009, 23:55	#2
livinhimalayas still learning Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: The Abode of Snow Posts: 3,337	A good thought if ever there was one, do you know what a huge task it is. We are trying to do something similar here in Uttarkashi and so far no go! People think we are crazy, listen to us say yes yes yes and go back to their plastic bag culture. But if you do start something count me in. __________________ He that would live in peace and at ease must not speak all he knows or all he sees. - Benjamin Franklin

Oct 1st, 2009, 12:38	#8
trooooon tj Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Vasant Kunj, New Delhi Posts: 849	Plastic and pollution is but one part, important no doubt, what really gets me is when industry is shifted to the hills, or local construction typologies are phased out to bring in the same insensitive concrete houses which are going to cover the earth some day . . . When I see a small spitian village being concretised I wonder what answer I can give the locals for my displeasure, when it obviously fits right in to their view of development and a better world. Why should some of us have the right to pollute and not others. The closest answer I find is the tussle between America and China, one trying to attain the first world wasteful lifestyle and the other trying to push everyone off the top of the pyramid of consumption . . . Maybe we are better off targeting plastic actually __________________ what if . . . maybe . . . say . . . suppose!

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Oct 1st, 2009, 10:59	#4
livinhimalayas still learning Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: The Abode of Snow Posts: 3,337	come on Paleface, we are talking of plastic culture and you yourself are a BIG opposer of it so why this?

Oct 1st, 2009, 12:23	#6
jyotirmoy Maha Guru Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: India Posts: 5,223	Sikkim has shown what can be done to preserve nature.

Oct 1st, 2009, 12:27	#7
kaustabh Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Burdwan/Kolkata, India Posts: 94	Hi JonathanS, It is a fact that what you want to do is very difficult. I agree fully with livinhimalayas that most of the people are simply unaware of the need to save the nature. This involves creating mass awareness and education. Very few people will accept it willingly and gladly as it will harm their short term comfort and economic interests, but it is not a mission impossible. We need not do herculean tasks but give our small contributions. People like you are in minority but alone never. Here is one more person appreciate your thinking and ready to make his contributions.

Oct 1st, 2009, 14:06	#9
Paleface Maha Guru Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Garhwal Himalaya Posts: 1,786	Oh sorry JS, i see you were meaning plastics only! 'Saving Uttarakhand from Plastic'. Plastic bloody bags, bottles and Mad Angles packs are so easy to deal with that it continues to amaze me that 'conscious' folks don't put them in their pocket and take them home and to deal with later. Oh i put my plastic trash in the wastebin in my room at the hotel in Gangotri/Yamunotri/Badrinath/Kedar - they'll deal with it. Problem about building is that i find myself having built a house, so thus denying others is a bit of hypocritical problem. Anyway at least i stay put in the main and plant trees and preserve, even enhance hopefully what natural surroundings we have, which are no doubt spectacular, pure perennial stream in the back yard etc. The most stressful pressure on resources and cause for their diminishing availability is Tourism or Yatra... can it be stopped?

Oct 1st, 2009, 14:46	#10
kaustabh Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Burdwan/Kolkata, India Posts: 94	We should not think item wise, like plastic is a problem etc etc. The way we use it is the problem. The problem is increasing due to changing lifestyle/demand, increasing population, increasing number of tourists etc. But these things can not be stopped. That option is not there, all we can do is controlling and conducting it properly. Not all people do carry their water bottles to the dustbins, otherwise there would be no garbage dump next to Bheempool. Wareness must be created to solve this people. People will only act when they realize that this must be done.

Oct 1st, 2009, 15:00	#11
trooooon tj Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Vasant Kunj, New Delhi Posts: 849	Its a big misnomer that dustbins help with waste management, its what happens after the dusbins . . . landfills mostly down stream of the village are everywhere, plastic is burnt or simply thrown down the khud by the panchayat or nagar nigam . . . plastic really needs to be banned, that's the on;y way, and that means no chips in plastic, no coke in pet bottles and most importantly water bottles!

Oct 1st, 2009, 15:43	#12
JonathanS Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Delhi Posts: 27	Hi, trooooon is absolutely right, one has to just stop and see the face of real Nainital while your driving from the lake side towards Bhowali. Just near to where the Tourist buses are parked, there is a huge landfill... you cannot miss the stink and heaps of waste thrown carelessly into the khud. Dear IM members, my intention of starting this thread, is not to make anyone feel guilty of not doing their bit. We all know and recognize that there is a problem. The intention in this thread is not to discuss the problem but how to tackle it. To find a way forward? I know there are countless number of people who would be willing to show their support for this cause. I thank each one of you for that. But the need of the hour is... as a community and responsible citizens, what's the way forward... Please advise. Thanks JS.

Oct 1st, 2009, 16:14	#13
kaustabh Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Burdwan/Kolkata, India Posts: 94	Plastic is poison, no doubt about that. But simply banning wont going to work. Before banning an alternative must be created. Plastic has penetrated all possible areas of our day to day activity. Considering our weak law enforcement and peoples lack of respect for laws I cant see success with a ban. Plastic carry bags are banned in Kolkata, so you can find it everywhere. Alternative must be created first and people must be educated. The treatment of garbage is another major issue, thanks trooooon for bringing it up. Authorities are to be blamed. But we can not escape either. Authorities do not take it seriously because they knows we are not serious about it. They knows it is not a prime election issue. We have to make it one.

Oct 1st, 2009, 16:28	#14
JonathanS Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Delhi Posts: 27	what about paper bags (brown colour) in place of plastic bags... i have seen shops in delhi (reliance fresh) ensuring that their customers either bring their own carry bags or they would charge extra Rs.5 for a green colour bag. this has really worked.

Oct 1st, 2009, 16:31	#15
JonathanS Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Delhi Posts: 27	even our local chole bhature wala in our neighborhood market, gives his food-stuff in paper bags. a couple of months back, i saw school children going about in the market and giving paper bags (made of newspaper) to shopkeepers and taking back their plastic bags. it's not difficult to change the mindset if done logically and rationally. Cheers. JS.