India Travel Forum | IndiaMike.com

India Travel Forum | IndiaMike.com (http://www.indiamike.com/india/)
-   Uttarakhand (http://www.indiamike.com/india/uttarakhand-f135/)
-   -   Have you seen Jonathan Spollen? Missing in Rishikesh since February 3rd, 2012 (http://www.indiamike.com/india/uttarakhand-f135/have-you-seen-jonathan-spollen-missing-in-rishikesh-since-february-3rd-2012-a-t159252/)

Paleface Mar 27th, 2012 02:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by StefRuth (Post 1375089)
This is an alternative and more 'juicy' possibility to the idea that he went walking, ended up getting suddenly sick/ in pain then got lost and ended up in a village with people that don't speak english and that don't know that there is a search on for him.

Rishikesh area is not exactly isolated, it's barely out of the plains and one will not walk too far before encountering locals.

Perhaps contrary to general opinion, a white person hanging out somewhere will most definitely be noticed and talked about at some stage, folks gossip.. and the police do know who's who and what's what. It's another thing if they are not motivated to act, however David's rapport seems to be excellent.

The raison' d'etre of Rishikesh is Ganga. Folks tend to underestimate Ganga's power, evidenced by it barely being mentioned herein. Even at Phool Chatti area when seemingly benign and beguiling, she is dangerous and formidable.

Sure there are n’er do wells all over but the evidence we are party to thus far, is that J. was hanging out by Ganga in the vicinity of his belongings and not being mindnapped somewhere. Moreover the belongings were intact with nothing stolen. Wherever he may have gone, what self-aggrandising opportunity would a crook see in a fella with no cash, credit card, stuff etc. Monkeys, as they do, rifle bags and discard inedible items.

Saddhu’s, especially Naga’s, do have their final initiation and renunciation by Ganga, turn North and walk away naked. J. doing something like this looks as improbable as the idea of being held against his will, still, is checking out the akhara's an idea?

shiva108 Mar 27th, 2012 03:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by afz (Post 1374636)
...he could have fallen under the sway of some guru who is perhaps not allowing him to leave...

Just be aware that some guru use datura to keep people in ashram against their will. The effect of one take can last up to two weeks.

Chris24 Mar 27th, 2012 04:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiva108 (Post 1375112)
Just be aware that some guru use datura to keep people in ashram against their will. The effect of one take can last up to two weeks.

Forgive my lack of knowledge, but, what drugs are being used in this area ? Is it possible that LSD or some kind of payotes are imbibed in this area ? Moreover are there any cases of people's drinks/food being spiked.

I know Jonathan's family and know that he wouldnt have knowingly taken any illegal substances but is there a chance that someone tampered with his drink/food.

It may explain the irrationality of leaving a perfectly good camp without his possessions and maybe forgetting where he left them.

Maybe someone thought they were doing him a favour by offering him their form of enlightenment. Is it common for the religious guides to use these mediums to attain a higher state of mind.

I apologise if this offends anyone but in a thread after there was a sighting of Jonathan someone implied that it might be normal as some of the travellers may indulge in drug use.

Just putting it out there.

kullukid Mar 27th, 2012 04:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by JuliaF (Post 1375026)
I personally am not keen on having separate threads as it will lead to more conversations for David and Lynda and Jonathan's friends to follow. But I think it's a great idea KK to systematically contact guesthouses in the smaller places in Uttarakhand and Himachal, asking them to display posters and to distribute other posters to any eating places and chai stalls etc.

But maybe wait until David or Lynda or George Dargan says 'Yes, please do that' in case it it already being done.

Yes agreed more discussion threads would be too confusing. I was hoping we could have one purely for posting hotel contact details in different towns/villages without any discussions, then someone could systematically go through them & contact each one.

I suppose we could start posting contact details on this thread but we would need to know someone was constantly monitoring & acting on the provided info???
It would certainly be a lot more productive than some of the current conversations taking place here at present. KK

PeakXV Mar 27th, 2012 04:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by kullukid (Post 1375132)
Y
It would certainly be a lot more productive than some of the current conversations taking place here at present. KK

All the posters, searching, calling & knocking on doors has not helped to locate Ryan Chambers after nearly 7 years. Sometimes you have to think outside the box of systematic protocol - regardless of whom it might ire.

Paleface Mar 27th, 2012 04:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris24 (Post 1375130)
Just putting it out there.

Datura is a very obscure one, i mean you can also use it as an ayurvedic treatment if you are an asthmatic, but it can kill you or do damage if you get the dosage wrong and to me this all seems like clutching at straws i'm sad to say..

Of course people get high on grass and hash and even opium, and it's available, less so the opium, LSD = impossible locally, but if J. was not known to partake, why would he suddenly indulge? Spiking food is usually about robbing somebody - and he wasn't robbed right?

Chris24 Mar 27th, 2012 04:49

Would it be possible to post a map with the dates of when he was seen where ? I.e. last confirmed sighting and then where his belongings where found ? Evidently he's on foot now so that might give an indication of the ashrams that are within distance bearing in mind the terrain and weather conditions. I've been checking google maps but a timeline on a map may shed some light. kk, captain et al may then see other places that people need to look/contact.

Kk, I agree, compile a list of those significant places in the area and start contacting them, the final decision is with j's parent as to how they would like this info conveyed but very good idea.

24

Chris24 Mar 27th, 2012 04:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paleface (Post 1375137)
Datura is a very obscure one, i mean you can also use it as an ayurvedic treatment if you are an asthmatic, but it can kill you or do damage if you get the dosage wrong and to me this all seems like clutching at straws i'm sad to say..

Of course people get high on grass and hash and even opium, and it's available, less so the opium, LSD = impossible locally, but if J. was not known to be partake, why would he suddenly indulge? Spiking food is usually about robbing somebody - and he wasn't robbed right?

I think we call that flower angels trumpets, is there any chance he could mistake it for something else ? Also it was mentioned he may have injured himself, if he had an open wound could it enter his system ?

The acts being depicted by the evidence on the ground suggest he was acting out of character. Any chance ? I have limited knowledge in this area but obviously the beatles drug use and subsequent songs may point to an enlightenment of a different kind. Jonathan not being aware of that side of life, may not have realised what it entailed. Like I said he was against drugs but someone could have tricked him.

24

Paleface Mar 27th, 2012 05:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris24 (Post 1375147)
Like I said he was against drugs but someone could have tricked him.

Datura you have to make into a powder, you can't just eat the plant as such.

I don't understand the reasoning behind trickery, where's the motive and if there was one what remunerative advantage has been gained, insofar as money, passport (convertible to money) and i presume credit card were untouched? Where has the tricking benefited any trickster?

Chris24 Mar 27th, 2012 06:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paleface (Post 1375150)
Datura you have to make into a powder, you can't just eat the plant as such.

I don't understand the reasoning behind trickery, where's the motive and if there was one what remunerative advantage has been gained, insofar as money, passport (convertible to money) and i presume credit card were untouched? Where has the tricking benefited any trickster?

Just to follow on from your point.

It does suggest that one of the side affects may be amnesia, amnesia that may mean that you wouldn't call your parents, or find a back-pack.

You guys probably know better than me but how long would the amnesia last for, would anybody know ?

Wikipedia

Due to the potent combination of anticholinergic substances it contains, Datura intoxication typically produces effects similar to that of an anticholinergic delirium (as contrasted to hallucination): a complete inability to differentiate reality from fantasy; hyperthermia; tachycardia; bizarre, and possibly violent behavior; and severe mydriasis with resultant painful photophobia that can last several days. Pronounced amnesia is another commonly reported effect.[13]
No other psychoactive substance has received as many severely negative experience reports as has Datura. The overwhelming majority of those who describe their use of Datura find their experiences extremely unpleasant both mentally and physically and often physically dangerous.[13]

24.

capt_mahajan Mar 27th, 2012 07:03

That theory would imply that he took datura, was hit by amnesia, and then decided to dump his possessions, etc. Unlikely. Of course, he could have dumped his possessions first and then taken whatever, in which case the chances are that he would have certainly been noticed by many.

To me, the proven striking change of character lies in the fact that he did not call home when he could have (at the Shantaram lady time). Whatever else has happened, Jonathan seemed to be in a minimalist state of mind then- and perhaps at the waterfall too.

Also
a) Are the searchers reasonably sure he did not take a train/bus/taxi out towards Kumaon or Himachal or Delhi or anywhere else? Have the transport/rail terminuses etc been thoroughly canvassed? A spiritual journey, if that is what this is, does not have to be in the hills alone.
b) It appears to me that a person can hole up somewhere without money, but not travel too easily without it. How much did he have, I wonder.

davidgreen100 Mar 27th, 2012 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Photofreak (Post 1373882)
Only the portion in bold is true about myself :)

In between, it is so nice to see you interacting more and more with all of us through this thread.

I think by now most of us are emotionally attached with this thread and even a single day without any communication from Jonathan's family makes us restless.

I know that you are not keeping any stone unturned but did you get a chance to meet with the Sadhu baba who lives near Neelkanth temple. He is a known face there and I have heard that when in good mood (which he is most of the time), he offers excellent massala chai to his visitors during evenings. Just in case if Jonathan met with him.I was supposed to meet this Baba ji few months back but had to cancel my visit due to other engagements.

Is this the baba who lives in the small cottage just above the chai shop at Garrud Chatti Bridge? We knocked on his door a couple of times but there was no-one there. Kundann, the police officer, told me later he had spoken with him but there was nothing to report.

davidgreen100 Mar 27th, 2012 14:51

Christian Ashrams
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PeakXV (Post 1373958)
How many Christian Ashrams are there in the Rishikesh region & have they been checked out as well?

The reason I ask is that he was carrying a bible with him ..... & after a little bit of a google found the following blog of a fellow who shared similar interests in ashrams, spirituality, breatharians etc .... & who eventually wound up quite ill in a Christian ashram in Rishikesh.

There are many other names listed in his blog entry ... it appears that he was at least on the same wavelength as Jonathan & like minds often follow the same paths somehow:

http://www.jwhtm.blogspot.ca/

I've just started reading up on Christian Ashrams and inculturation and didn't realise it is such a common phenomenon. It sounds like an avenue worth exploring. Is there a network of Christian Ashrams in the area? I think it would be worth exploring the Christian-Eastern connection to see if there are places where both faiths live side by side. Are there posters who have visited these Ashrams or who have contacts in them? We have spoken to the Christian Ashram in Tapovan. Please share your contacts on this one.

Photofreak Mar 27th, 2012 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidgreen100 (Post 1375317)
Is this the baba who lives in the small cottage just above the chai shop at Garrud Chatti Bridge? We knocked on his door a couple of times but there was no-one there. Kundann, the police officer, told me later he had spoken with him but there was nothing to report.

No. This Babaji lives somewhere near Neelkanth temple. He would be closer (approachwise) from Swargarshram (Ramjhoola) side.

kullukid Mar 27th, 2012 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidgreen100 (Post 1375330)
I've just started reading up on Christian Ashrams and inculturation and didn't realise it is such a common phenomenon. It sounds like an avenue worth exploring. Is there a network of Christian Ashrams in the area? I think it would be worth exploring the Christian-Eastern connection to see if there are places where both faiths live side by side. Are there posters who have visited these Ashrams or who have contacts in them? We have spoken to the Christian Ashram in Tapovan. Please share your contacts on this one.

There is Shantivanam way down south, contact details here:http://www.bedegriffiths.com/shantivanam/

Palface,is there still a Christian Ashram in Uttarkashi connected with the now deceased Frenchman Henry La Saux better known as Swami Abishiktananda??
http://www.worldwisdom.com/public/au...i-Le-Saux.aspx
There was a Abishiktananda Soc. In Rishikesh, I don't know if it still exists but here's the details;
http://www.upanishad.org/lesaux/abhisociety.htm
http://www.upanishad.org/lesaux/abhisociety.htm

It may also be worth checking out the famous Pilot Baba Ashrams in Uttarkashi & Nainital;
http://www.pilotbaba.org/ashram/uttarkashi.htm

full list of his other Ashrams here;
http://www.pilotbaba.org/ashram/


All times are GMT +6.5. The time now is 14:04.


© IndiaMike.com 2017


Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.3.2