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-   -   Have you seen Jonathan Spollen? Missing in Rishikesh since February 3rd, 2012 (http://www.indiamike.com/india/uttarakhand-f135/have-you-seen-jonathan-spollen-missing-in-rishikesh-since-february-3rd-2012-a-t159252/)

kullukid May 4th, 2012 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by prince09 (Post 1398560)
I personally met some of these people and this video is just a small example of various motivations people have to live or disappear in a place like rishikesh.

I'm in contact with Sadhviji & she tells me she's involved with organising the search for J in & around rishikesh.KK

PeakXV May 4th, 2012 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by prince09 (Post 1398560)
The fact is a lot of westerners do go to rishikesh with a hope of finding some remedy/solution/escape for their problems and whatever the police are saying is based on years of observation and investigations of missing cases.

But how many abuse their visa privileges for their own self-indulgence/selfishness?:confused: Are all spiritual tourists that travel to that region potential dropouts, goof-offs and/or presumed that they might attempt a visit extension by playing the 'spiritual immunity' card - in the eyes of the local cops?

Look - Jonathan went for trekking, was thin/dehydrated/not well by last visual accounts, was anxious to return home, & his belongings were 'suddenly' located in a remote area. It doesn't seem like he exactly fits the profile that the two media quoted cops seem to be alluding to. That's all.

Forum Leader May 5th, 2012 00:02

Some off topic posts have been deleted. Off topic posts will continue to be deleted.

new_traveller May 5th, 2012 00:52

Many IMers / non IMers visit this thread to read an update on the search progress or any new theory which has been untapped which could be a crucial approach to find the whereabouts of J

Though this is not an official search site nor is it the only entity which decides the search operation, I and maybe many more believe this is one of the major resources being used to search for J.

I and am also sure many more are refraining from adding to the already chaotic bickering on our differences in opinion.

I personally do not go by the theory of spiritual aspect and have voiced it before but cannot waive off if someone feels this could be a possibility. There are lot of insane (in my opinion but sane in their) people who might do what is being believed as a spiritual journey. I just don't believe J did this. But that is what I differ on with others who feel he did.

About the thread - I just see an argument on how one possibility is reasonable over other. Is it helping find J? I don't think so, will this thread help? I don't know. But is it supposed to add value to the search operation? Yes I believe so.

Sadly it is not since the last few pages. (and I don't have percentages to prove it)

I do not know why has it become an anti PeakVX sentiment, I see others being equally obsessed with proving their points (It's not I wont name them, its just too obvious who am I referring to)

Is the thread lived it life? Can it add no more value? I think it can and we can be focused on what we started with.

Mods - can we start a thread in chit chat or masala chit chat where bickering posts are moved and we can have our own discussions there and keep this thread clean for a lot.

And captain - Great work in calling and just the updates on the thread and no bickering at all.

Paleface May 5th, 2012 03:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by prince09 (Post 1398560)
Does she have to give every detail on what her department is doing in this case in the media? As the top cop, you think she'll have the time and need for discussion in such detail?

Ms. Neeru Garg is not the top cop in the state by a long chalk, no doubt she is a person of integrity as Superintendent of Police (SP) Crime at Police HQ Dehradun. Her immediate boss is the DIG, Crime & Vigilance.

One assumes that a criminal investigation was undertaken and a blank drawn, as David stated, hence Neeru's prognosis and the subsequent concentration on ashram/renunciation - and it was also an admission that, given the evidence, we the Police have no clue as to what has happened. The point was not to cast aspersion, but that if ashrams were systematically notified or searched in Rishi/Hardwar or continue to be so (a hugely time consuming operation) then we would know that it's being covered.

In which case we could look further at locations up the hill for wont of anywhere else to go, as for sure the police will not have trekked up on a wish and a promise as the resources and motivation are not there. Being short of info via 'family' communique's naturally leaves us thrashing about in the dark; frustrations and a few disagreements here and there are a small price to pay for keeping the camaraderie going amongst a group of opinionated strangers, let's not run scared of ruffling a few feathers now and then.

I'd like to know whether J's Uncle (was it?) - press conference actually resulted in any photo's or column inches in English or Hindi, any blanks could be our collective effort to fill.

Paleface May 5th, 2012 03:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by new_traveller (Post 1398642)
I do not know why has it become an anti PeakVX sentiment, I see others being equally obsessed with proving their points .. Is the thread lived it life? Can it add no more value? I think it can and we can be focused on what we started with.

Just your perceptions and pretty poor at that! I see caring avatars from around the world trying to work together and overcome our inevitable differences. Quite impressive really!

nadreg May 5th, 2012 04:40

Folks, I've received multiple complaints from several members about bickering and in-fighting on this thread over the past few weeks. I've also received emails from new members asking to have their accounts shut down because they felt that this thread, in particular, was bringing out the worst in a lot of people. I can't imagine what it must be like for Jonathan's family to have to sort through the trollish behaviour to try and gleam some nuggets of information that will help.

I was initially very proud of this thread because it felt like the entire community was getting together to help a family through some very troubling times. It is, however, becoming an embarrassment now.

You have left me with two options:
1. Shut down this thread completely, which will unfortunately not help a family that is in need.
2. Hand out bans to offending members (regardless of tenure) until we can all learn to behave ourselves.

I am deleting the posts over the last few days that I find to be objectionable.

Let's stick to FACTS from now on. Anything else will be considered off-topic and deleted.

PeakXV May 5th, 2012 04:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paleface (Post 1398693)
Ms. Neeru Garg is not the top cop in the state by a long chalk, no doubt she is a person of integrity as Superintendent of Police (SP) Crime at Police HQ Dehradun. Her immediate boss is the DIG, Crime & Vigilance.

All she had to say was the standard blurb: 'we are continuing to pursue all possibilities as to the circumstances of his disappearance.' A simple concise update with no hint of any bias/stereotyping.

narayanvee May 5th, 2012 21:18

Jonathan pollen
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nadreg (Post 1398703)

I was initially very proud of this thread because it felt like the entire community was getting together to help a family through some very troubling times. It is, however, becoming an embarrassment now.
You have left me with two options:
1. Shut down this thread completely, which will unfortunately not help a family that is in need.
2. Hand out bans to offending members (regardless of tenure) until we can all learn to behave ourselves.
I am deleting the posts over the last few days that I find to be objectionable.
Let's stick to FACTS from now on. Anything else will be considered off-topic and deleted.

:confused:Be kind and let this thread continue as there is a chance- may be remote-of somebody giving some information about Jonathan. It is really tragic that sometimes people respond without understanding what they are saying or doing- immature, shall I say!

Paleface May 6th, 2012 03:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeakXV (Post 1398708)
All she had to say was the standard blurb: 'we are continuing to pursue all possibilities as to the circumstances of his disappearance.' A simple concise update with no hint of any bias/stereotyping.

'Continuing to pursue' has inevitable limitations Peak.

Incidents are hot when initially attention is being focused, but on the whole unless some big noise is personally interested, we know that the next day and the one after is going to bring more crime and sensation and the earlier gets subsumed under the later.. subsequently searching for a missing person, when we have ruled out criminal intent, becomes less and less any sort of priority at all.

I reckon the Police are unable to devote very little if any personpower to this search anymore. Posters may still be up in many places, or still being put up, we don't know the success of the press campaign from J''s uncle, and no recent family communique... which all adds up to a bit of a floundering about as we have nothing much to consider; which might mean it's none of our business any more.

Vee21 May 6th, 2012 13:10

My humble opinion.
 
I find it hard to imagine what sort of people want to close their accounts because of “bickering in this thread”. All they need to do is not come into this thread if they don’t like it. There are SO many more threads they can be involved in.
I am of the opinion that any publicity is good publicity. Any message keeps this thread alive. People are passionate about it. People are passionate and I might say almost desperate for a good outcome for J and his family. They are writing with their hearts maybe rather than their heads. It is easy to be misinterpreted communicating in this way. I am sure everyones’ intentions are nothing but good.. I say let the passion carry this thread along until there is an outcome of one sort or another.
I have been carried along by the passion of this thread every day since its beginning. I feel deeply. I feel an extra kinship with the family because David lives in New Zealand, as do I.
What’s a bit of bickering between friends I say!!
Vee

Paleface May 6th, 2012 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vee21 (Post 1399265)
I find it hard to imagine what sort of people want to close their accounts because of “bickering in this thread”. .. I am of the opinion that any publicity is good publicity. Any message keeps this thread alive.

Completely with you on that.

If anyone has also been in a situation of needing help in the life regarding a huge incident such as this, then anyhow that light remains focused on the event and by any which way the conversation continues, even with disagreements, is helpful rather than unhelpful. No discussion is end of discussion.

PeakXV May 6th, 2012 22:51

It's the region and associated spiritual tourism options that makes this/these case/cases a little more unusual, uneasy, difficult, mysterious ...... & contentious than normal.

davidgreen100 May 7th, 2012 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by nadreg (Post 1398703)
Folks, I've received multiple complaints from several members about bickering and in-fighting on this thread over the past few weeks. I've also received emails from new members asking to have their accounts shut down because they felt that this thread, in particular, was bringing out the worst in a lot of people. I can't imagine what it must be like for Jonathan's family to have to sort through the trollish behaviour to try and gleam some nuggets of information that will help.

I was initially very proud of this thread because it felt like the entire community was getting together to help a family through some very troubling times. It is, however, becoming an embarrassment now.

You have left me with two options:
1. Shut down this thread completely, which will unfortunately not help a family that is in need.
2. Hand out bans to offending members (regardless of tenure) until we can all learn to behave ourselves.

I am deleting the posts over the last few days that I find to be objectionable.

Let's stick to FACTS from now on. Anything else will be considered off-topic and deleted.

Thanks for your comments, Nadreg. Can I say first of all how important this thread is to us? 200,000 hits is an amazing response and the quality of comments has been a real boon to us. You guys have helped us to understand a great deal about India, about Jonathan and ourselves. This has occurred through the sharing of ideas and opinions and I would not want this to stop.
Now, not everyone has the same point of view and just like you, I dislike comments that have a dig at fellow posters rather than address the issue of the day. However, it is through debate, often heated, that the best ideas emerge. You, Nadreg, are left with the unenviable task of deciding which comments further a debate and which ones don't.
I would love to say that we are closer to finding Jonathan. Unfortunately not, but we have been heartened by comments from IMers who recalled other travellers who returned to their families after lengthy periods of silence. It does happen. We are not giving up on him.
It would be great if we had a recent confirmed sighting. We don't, but IM'ers have been working tirelessly to make calls and check out their hunches. Together, we are spreading the word throughout Uttarakhand and further afield. We have learned, through you and with you, to be patient and to believe that a breakthrough is a text or a phone call away. Crucially, we have no evidence to say Jonathan is deceased. In an area as populated as Rishikesh, it would be virtually impossible for the death of a foreigner to go unnoticed.
I am dealing with something I have no textbook for (I'm a teacher...I have textbooks for everything!). This journey is a rollercoaster with no end in sight and the only context outside of the intensity of the search is India Mike. You guys say the things I can't say, you think through the stuff I am scared of thinking about, you illuminate the darkness with your intelligence, insight, compassion and common sense and, through your voices, I can find mine again.
So Nadreg, please don't pull the plug on this thread.

JuliaF May 7th, 2012 17:08

Hi David, it's good to see you here again after a while :)

I'm sorry you don't have any news, and that you feel you are no closer to finding Jonathan.

Is Jonathan's uncle still there in India? How did the media campaign/TV interview go?


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