Have you seen Jonathan Spollen? Missing in Rishikesh since February 3rd, 2012

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#1471 May 4th, 2012, 00:41
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#1471
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Originally Posted by machadinha View Post But not by some highly random web survey, Peak. Have you seen the average poll here, or anywhere else on the web? They mean nothing. As in really zilch.
Collective minds of senior members who are serious about a subject .... is far different than loosely worded polls that attract the usual suspects / trolls.

There's already been an unofficial/untabulated poll made by people speculating & thinking out loud in this thread. It might be wrong not to put some kind of chart/graph to it. Especially since we are now at three months - with no recent leads.
We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time. ~
T. S. Eliot

http://www.derekgrantdigital.com
#1472 May 4th, 2012, 00:49
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#1472
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Originally Posted by capt_mahajan View Post I usually approach this thread with the assumption that Jonathan's family- and the authorities- are sensibly and logically exploring all possibilities and avenues, that they are better qualified to do this than me, that they cannot post everything they are doing here, and so my contribution to this thread should be limited to useful posts or as a means of providing concrete help. This post is therefore an exception.

I have insufficient qualifications to speculate or play detective with part information anyway.

You never know, one persons speculation is another's lead.

Still cant believe that there is no trace whatsoever since the bag though.
#1473 May 4th, 2012, 01:12
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#1473
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Originally Posted by PeakXV View Post Collective minds of senior members who are serious about a subject .... is far different than loosely worded polls that attract the usual suspects / trolls.
OK, that isn't incorrect. But in that case, I suppose the various positions would already be clear: Some think of a spiritual walkabout; me personally, I'm thinking quite likely any combination of disease and/or accident and/or robbery. In which case he would probably need to be found in the vicinity. The how's and why's I can explain no more than anyone else can. (Why was his stuff found in a camp-like situation there?)

Wild animals I've never brought up yet, out of a sense of discretion, but some others discreetly have. I don't know Rishikesh, nor how much wildlife is out there. I know there reportedly is quite some higher up in those hills, aka mountains (Rishikesh as such isn't at all very high up, in my understanding. Foothills at best, indeed, or so I hear. David should be able to confirm or deny this: he's been there.) But I guess it needs to be asked: Given enough time, how much chance of anything being found? I don't know that, it's why I'm asking.

PaleFace has hinted a couple of times at the power of the Ganges, not to be underestimated. An ill-considered decision to take a dip there or at the wrong spot and with rapids and stuff, let alone all by yourself, could turn out fatal, and of course drag a body away to miles away, and never to be found again. It's a notorious problem with drownings. The river originates not far from here, and it is indeed said to be powerful, not the gently meandering and wide stream it becomes further downstream, though sometimes treacherous even there.

I am really sorry to put it this way, David and Lynda and others, and these are of course themselves no more than speculations. (And I do assume it's been brought up in your dealings with the local authorities, as well.) I do of course hope Jonathan may be found back, and in one piece. Wouldn't we all breathe a sigh of relief if hopefully it turns out so, and I'm sure a little gathering in the hills there with plenty of bubblies and delicious snacks would be very much in order.
Last edited by machadinha; May 4th, 2012 at 01:41.. Reason: edited
#1474 May 4th, 2012, 02:36
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#1474
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Originally Posted by machadinha View Post hinted a couple of times at the power of the Ganges, not to be underestimated.
Before the eyes a very fit Peter drowned in an innocous looking stretch of Bhagirathi near Uttarkashi. Much higher then Rishi obviously, however the volume is greater downstream and when Ganga encounters a bend as near Phool chatti, rips can be there. Of course, the why J. would go down to the river or up the path, from the w/fall is missing info. From Rishi, the next barrage on the river is at Hardwar, 26kms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeakXV View Post “We are searching scores of ashrams in Rishikesh and also co-ordinating with police from the neighbouring district of Haridwar to expand our reach to ashrams there too,” she says. “He may have wanted to ‘disappear’, and to do so in the ashrams is easy.”
I missed that actual quote, was away for a while but if it is to be believed, then nothing has came of it to date; is the tough challenge of searching ashrams still underway?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StefRuth View Post You never know, one persons speculation is another's lead.
Well you are not wrong about it, and everything is still fluid. Uttarakhand has a new Govt. A friend's brother (cousin) is a cabinet minister, links to the ADG police are there.. i don't know if any of that could be useful. Stepping on toes might be an issue as well, which is why until we are told otherwise, and as capt_mahajan stated, "the assumption is that Jonathan's family- and the authorities- are sensibly and logically exploring all possibilities and avenues"
#1475 May 4th, 2012, 03:31
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#1475
@machadinha

I am 35 years old - I have finished my Bh in 2000.
I work for Metropolitan Police in Bucharest on the Forensics Division (generally named this way because there are multiple sections). I have a MA in Criminology and honestly I don't care what you think about me as long as you can't do what you are asking me to do: read my posts and try to understand the idea of Methodology of the Investigation.
Probably, in fact, no one here would really know what that is because no one is on the search field in Rishikesh.
Why do I bother myself with these posts? Because I am human and because I have a family and it might happening some time my son to be missing and definitely I will accept all help.
And also I am here because I can make the difference between a caucasian skull and a "black" skull. I can also determine the height of a person by measuring the femur bone, etc.
In other words, I can perform better than some novices or some pseudo investigators....of course, if someone will bother to read what I am saying and try to think before judge...
#1476 May 4th, 2012, 03:31
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#1476
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Originally Posted by Paleface View Post I missed that actual quote, was away for a while but if it is to be believed, then nothing has came of it to date; is the tough challenge of searching ashrams still underway?
That was a direct quote from the District Police Chief. Is there a question of integrity with police media/public relations in India. That's an unfortunate & serious problem/intangible if so.



Quote:
The district police chief, Neeru Garg, told The Irish Times she believes Spollen is alive and may be at one of the region’s numerous ashrams. “We are searching scores of ashrams in Rishikesh and also co-ordinating with police from the neighbouring district of Haridwar to expand our reach to ashrams there too,” she says. “He may have wanted to ‘disappear’, and to do so in the ashrams is easy.”
#1477 May 4th, 2012, 03:41
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#1477
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Originally Posted by PeakXV View Post That was a direct quote from the District Police Chief. Is there a question of integrity with police media/public relations in India. That's an unfortunate & serious problem/intangible if so.
You funnin' me bub
#1478 May 4th, 2012, 03:51
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#1478
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Originally Posted by PeakXV View Post That was a direct quote from the District Police Chief. Is there a question of integrity with police media/public relations in India. That's an unfortunate & serious problem/intangible if so.
Peak... An example of how the media works, you can find these examples daily, not just in the tabloids, either, and I'm sorry if I must for getting way :

There was a Mayday so Labor Day demonstration here in Amsterdam, so this last May 1st, had been called for for quite some time. Against capitalism, and all that. And against the current economic crisis management, and such.

As the date drew nearer, our national and local media presented it as a "squatter's demonstration," which and so funnily it really wasn't, it didn't originate there and was carried much more broadly, and how they were out to trash the city. (They actually gathered in an outer district, as had been publicly announced, and never came anywhere close to the city center. I remember thinking why would you even want to have this demonstration way out there. I guess one reason could have been precisely to avoid confrontations, besides it being a modern and highly multi-ethnic working-class disctrict.) Our (socialist!) mayor expressed grave concern at the possibility of public disturbances, but how he didn't want to disallow it as he values the freedom of demonstration and of expression.

What happened was some whopping 150 people showed up there (yes, the "movement" isn't currently so large anymore), then not long after starting their march found themselves rounded in by riot police and plainclothes cops, and being beaten up and arrested by them. Out of those, some 23 were arrested, to be released again the day after, on the vaguest of charges. Part of the whole excuse had been that people would be wearing either face masks or sticks, yet witnesses say there was little of such to be seen. Nor was there otherwise the slightest reason for this police action, they were just walking there. No violence, no nothing. Except until the authorities started, then.

This is just one of those tiny examples, but that is easily verifiable within one's own surroundings. Still, the media are swallowing all that in whole, and diligently reporting it as presented to them. And of course you won't get the latter account of events there. Again: Don't believe all you read.

What's a pity is both these police and media tactics would have garnered some more criticism and outrage some time ago; apparently less so again today, which is why of course they apparently get away with it more easily once again.
Last edited by machadinha; May 4th, 2012 at 05:44.. Reason: edited
#1479 May 4th, 2012, 03:55
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#1479
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Originally Posted by Paleface View Post You funnin' me bub
Unfortunately & within the context and the seriousness of this particular time sensitive issue .... NO. Police chiefs telling 'campfire stories' is exactly the intangible you don't need at this point.
#1480 May 4th, 2012, 03:59
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#1480
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Originally Posted by machadinha View Post Still, the media are swallowing all that in whole, and diligently reporting it as presented to them. Again: Don't believe all you read.
Which contrary to common sense, how things will work in the vernacular press in India is that a press conference is on the whole a waste of oxygen - like it or not pay for it and you have some odds on guarantee that it'll be printed.
#1481 May 4th, 2012, 04:03
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#1481
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Originally Posted by PeakXV View Post Unfortunately & within the context and the seriousness of this particular time sensitive issue .... NO. Police chiefs telling 'campfire stories' is exactly the intangible you don't need at this point.
no doubt, but a general naivete is in the atmosphere in Asia when foreigners are concerned, and so in this case paying for services is often better terms than banking on goodwill - which does fizz out!
#1482 May 4th, 2012, 09:34
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#1482
Paleface, Peak and Machadinha

I really don't know why you are consuming valuable space in discussing topics (police chief comments, media reports) that are tangential to the efforts to finding J. These folks will say things and it is for us to filter the noise out of the message. Leave it there.

Nattusbs
#1483 May 4th, 2012, 12:19
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#1483
Well, Nattusbs, you are just bossy here, all of this including your input is just virtual stuff. If you think you are the one who can contribute in the real world, go to Rishikesh and search for yourself. Everyone here is aware of the dim chance of a good outcome, but everyone here also can just do "finger-work", and at the most do what the captain does so well, while even that is just done from a distance.
#1484 May 4th, 2012, 15:35
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#1484
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Originally Posted by Paleface View Post You funnin' me bub

SOS: Missing Person...

Please look at this thread: http://www.indiamike.com/india/uttar...012-a-t159252/

He could be anywhere now: You might have met him, be able to help, or give information.
#1485 May 4th, 2012, 15:49
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#1485
There is a hospital ashram in Rishikesh,which mainly caters for poor hillfolk/villagers from what i can make out. I would hope that everyone in Rishikesh is aware of J's disappearance by now, but it might be worth checking out;

http://www.nirmalhospitals.com/
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