Have you seen Jonathan Spollen? Missing in Rishikesh since February 3rd, 2012

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#916 Apr 3rd, 2012, 00:05
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#916
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Originally Posted by kullukid View Post Peak,there was never any mention of him staying in a ashram & David's post.
Sorry - he expressed his desire to stay in an 'ashram' to his parents at one point & he was openly looking for places to meditate. Do you normally meditate/fast by yourself in a guesthouse? I really thought an ashram was just a more regimented form of guesthouse or that some ashrams had guesthouses attached & that the two terms could, on occasion, be used interchangeably - especially when talking to parents or in passing & so as not to worry. Guess I was wrong.

If so distinct - would it be 'guesthouses' or 'ashrams' that would be the more concerned about specific eating habits of their guests in that town?
We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time. ~
T. S. Eliot

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#917 Apr 3rd, 2012, 00:22
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#917
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Originally Posted by PeakXV View Post Would guesthouses or ashrams be the more concerned about specific eating habits in that town?
Raiwala is a place midway between Hardwar and Rishikesh; it's a busy spot on the main road precisely because that is about the only location to buy booze and meat.

You won't get it otherwise in either of the two towns, except perhaps surreptitiously, however i guess people drink and eat what they want in their own homes, this should illustrate that 'rules' are not guest house or ashram specific, just that these two towns are like that being what they represent for Hindu's. Frankly though i don't see how this has any bearing on the known facts regarding the final disappearance.
#918 Apr 3rd, 2012, 00:24
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#918
@kullukid:

if you look at wikimapia there is a "Swiss baba" ashram mentioned further down the river, close to the Village Kota - http://wikimapia.org/20206585/Gular-...from-Rishikesh
you know about this one?
#919 Apr 3rd, 2012, 00:32
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#919
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Originally Posted by Paleface View Post Frankly though i don't see how this has any bearing on the known facts regarding the final disappearance.
Like all the other obscure little clues presented so far - they could mean nothing at all ..... or they could mean everything.
Last edited by PeakXV; Apr 3rd, 2012 at 02:28.. Reason: oth.
#920 Apr 3rd, 2012, 01:16
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#920
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Originally Posted by PeakXV View Post Like all other the other obscure little clues presented so far - they could mean nothing at all ..... or they could mean everything.
That can't be doubted Peak - something crucial at the heart of the mystery remains undiscovered i.e. the backpack. Previously i hadn't really sussed that his main bag was not with him at the waterfall discovery location!!
#921 Apr 3rd, 2012, 03:22
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#921
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Originally Posted by Paleface View Post TPreviously i hadn't really sussed that his main bag was not with him at the waterfall discovery location!!
Well one thing is clear - a man who by all accounts looked not well, had taken a fall & had a limp from an earlier trek, had fasted for 10 days, was most likely dehydrated & with a kidney issue could not carry a backpack of any weight, very far. Most likely he stashed it with a friend or with a previous accommodation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidgreen100 View Post Between 31/1-2/2/12- met Nandani, a Dutch nurse, in the German Bakery. He mentioned that he was in a lot of pain and she could see him ache when he moved. J spoke about having just done a 10 day fast with a friend.
Who was that friend? Do backpackers just hookup for fasts? Is that quite usual? Or are there ashrams that specifically organize/monitor these things?

He also spoke to his Mum (for the last time) right after this encounter. He was joking a bit at that time and mentioned to her that he was about to go an a long trek cum spiritual thing.

How much pain was he at the time you last spoke with him, Lynda? Enough to maybe pack it up & head to a hospital in Delhi perhaps ??????????????
#922 Apr 3rd, 2012, 03:27
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#922
Dear David,

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Originally Posted by davidgreen100 View Post Thanks for your comprehensive information, Daniela. You have correctly ascertained that our search was made with the best resources we could get at the time. We obtained the use of a police alpinist team, we recruited local trekking guides and we had one sniffer dog for a day. I do not know what skills this dog possessed, but it would have been at least a week after the belongings were left on the ground, because there was mould on Jonathan's book and papers. The mountain area is sizeable - I would guess about 12 sq km of densely vegetated forest. We have followed the most commonly used trails leading to the ridge, from both ends of the mountain, and the waterfall trail which follows a stream to the summit, about midway across the mountain. We did not have the resources or the knowledge to search it in the manner you recommend. I would be interested to hear what you would recommend at this point, as you are an expert in this area. I have also e-mailed the Dutch company you mentioned.
It sounds you and your ground search team have done a very good job so far. My respect! Maybe you could give me an impression of the area by pointing out the finding place of his belongings, of the lost papers and the ready searched pathes on google maps or google earth? You could mark these points/routes and write their coordinates here, if you have no program to write on a map directly.

Best regards,
Daniela
#923 Apr 3rd, 2012, 03:51
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#923
There is a question that I am wondering all the time.
When I remember correctly, he met this woman after his trekking-trip and they talked about Shantaram and he told something to her that he had a kind of accident at a waterfall and injured his leg.

There was mould on the Shantaram book when David´s search group found it. So these items have been there in moist environment for one week or longer. This place was near a waterfall, also. Was it the same waterfall?

The question is: Could it be that he left his belongings there while his trekking trip/accident before meeting the woman? Or after that meeting?
This question should be easy to answer...

It could change the timeline and the point of last seen/ primary search area if his things were put on this place before that meeting.

Best regards,
Daniela
#924 Apr 3rd, 2012, 04:13
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#924
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Originally Posted by Paleface View Post That can't be doubted Peak - something crucial at the heart of the mystery remains undiscovered i.e. the backpack. Previously i hadn't really sussed that his main bag was not with him at the waterfall discovery location!!
In all likelihood it's sat in a guest house somewhere unclaimed. Probably best to think about the things we do know rather than the things we don't but in saying that, even considering David's latest post, we don't know much.

NB
#925 Apr 3rd, 2012, 04:14
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#925
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Originally Posted by Snifferdog View Post There is a question that I am wondering all the time.
When I remember correctly, he met this woman after his trekking-trip and they talked about Shantaram and he told something to her that he had a kind of accident at a waterfall and injured his leg.

There was mould on the Shantaram book when David´s search group found it. So these items have been there in moist environment for one week or longer. This place was near a waterfall, also. Was it the same waterfall?

The question is: Could it be that he left his belongings there while his trekking trip/accident before meeting the woman? Or after that meeting?
This question should be easy to answer...

Daniela
That's a great point. His fall could have been what led him back to town and he could have quite easily left all that stuff behind and have simply no gone back for it.

NB
#926 Apr 3rd, 2012, 04:33
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#926
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Originally Posted by cassiopeia View Post @kullukid:

if you look at wikimapia there is a "Swiss baba" ashram mentioned further down the river, close to the Village Kota - http://wikimapia.org/20206585/Gular-...from-Rishikesh
you know about this one?

This is not the Swami, who Paleface has already spoken with who is in D Dun not sure where this is the link you provided won't zoom out.
#927 Apr 3rd, 2012, 04:35
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#927
Capt, you could contact this place which is in the right area;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZzCzNZFwqA
#928 Apr 3rd, 2012, 04:56
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#928
Is there any kind of a 'code of silence' that happens in Rishikesh with respect to the goings on of the spiritual community? Are the police & spiritual tourism people/patrons/operators on good communmications / speaking terms? Also would the 'unlicensed' guides be as forthcoming with information if need be.... or would they be likely too cautious / scared of possible repercussions? If not what would be the best way to approach those that operate on the more black/grey side of the market? It's at angle that may not have been explored to it's full potential as of yet.

These are the questions that would first & foremost on my mind - if I were to spend time & effort casing the place for leads/information.
#929 Apr 3rd, 2012, 05:29
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@kullukid: try this one http://wikimapia.org/5729175/Swiss-baba-s-Ashram
you have to zoom in Must be on the other river side of Kirti Herimitage ashram.

Found something else - most propably itś one of the villages where they already searched for Jonathan. http://www.mysecretplanet.com/Rishikesh

If you zoom in the wikimapia map he provided to the area we are talking about youĺl find a spot which is marked as "secret village - no roads to there. Must walk. There are few places to rent here".
#930 Apr 3rd, 2012, 05:51
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#930
Quote:
Also would the 'unlicensed' guides be as forthcoming with information if need be.... or would they be likely too cautious / scared of possible repercussions?
I recall an Indian friend once telling me that Indians don’t often come forward as witnesses or with information as that can lead the police to think they know more than they are saying and then be forced to bribe their way back to innocence. Offering information could put somebody in quite a compromised position, particularly in something a situation as ambiguous as this.
Once in Rishikesh a local pointed out a foreigner to me whom he knew had overstayed his visa by two years and wasn’t much seen in town. I also heard about one western fellow who managed to live illegally in the forrest for 5 years before he came to the attention of the authorities. If Jonathon did drop out and is still in the area he’s with or known by people who keep their guard up.
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