Have you seen Jonathan Spollen? Missing in Rishikesh since February 3rd, 2012

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#901 Apr 2nd, 2012, 18:45
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#901
Been in touch with Swami Jnanananda in Dehra Dun, extremely gracious but has no news.
#902 Apr 2nd, 2012, 19:23
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#902
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Originally Posted by kullukid View Post So far the search for Jonathon has mainly been restricted to Rishikesh & Joshimath/Chopta area,we all know what a vast area the Himalaya's are to cover,but based on the assumption that Jonathon has gone on a "Spiritual walkabout" i think we should start spreading the net over a much wider area.

I was thinking that it may be a good idea to have a seperate thread where members could strictly post contact details of various small guesthouses they may know of or have stayed at in the hills of Uttarakhand & Himachal Pradesh,in fact most of the details we need will probably be available in the hotel listings of IM.

If we had a list of phone numbers & email add's then maybe someone could volunteer to systematically go through the list & contact the GH's asking them to display a poster in each town/village, this way we could cover the whole of the Himalaya's in a short time.

Thought's on this anyone/Mod's????
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuliaF View Post I personally am not keen on having separate threads as it will lead to more conversations for David and Lynda and Jonathan's friends to follow. But I think it's a great idea KK to systematically contact guesthouses in the smaller places in Uttarakhand and Himachal, asking them to display posters and to distribute other posters to any eating places and chai stalls etc.

I would suggest that if there is someone who is fairly familiar with the area and has time, they could volunteer to compile a list from our IM hotel listings, from other threads here, from Lonely Planet etc. But maybe wait until David or Lynda or George Dargan says 'Yes, please do that' in case it it already being done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuliaF View Post Or alternatively, and to make it less of a daunting task, different people could do lists for Garwhal, Kumaon and Himachal ??

I've been discussing the above idea's with JuliaF & how we could put this into practise, a problem which Capt pointed out is that a lot of places in India don't have access to colour printers & also why should somone even bother helping complete strangers.

Julia is reluctant to have another thread running on jonathon & i agree it would be too confusing.

Another idea is to watch out for people in other posts saying going to Shimla, Mussourie or wherever in 2 days & post a request asking them to take posters to the area & display them. I've already started doing this, here are some examples of what i mean;
Delhi-Kasol-Tosh-Delhi from 11-17 April, 2012

Kullu/Parvati early april

I'm sure if a few of us started doing this we could have posters all over India in no time at all, we have great resouces here to get this done & it would be a shame not to take advantage of them.
I'm concentrating on Himalayan threads in HP & Uttarakhand,if any other members are willing to do this in other forums such as Goa , R'stan etc please say so then we know someone is dealing with threads for those area's. KK
#903 Apr 2nd, 2012, 20:18
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#903
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Originally Posted by cassiopeia View Post Captain:

Sorry, donīt find your Ashram contact list at the moment.

.
Have you seen Jonathan Spollen? Missing in Rishikesh since February 3rd, 2012
.
This is computer generated drivel. No signature is required.
#904 Apr 2nd, 2012, 20:24
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Originally Posted by davidgreen100 View Post 10/1/12-talked with Sitigiri, a South African female Sadhu. She thought he didnt look well. Jonathan told her he had just been kicked out of his guest-house (for not eating?).
I do not know how a guest-house would know if you were eating or not?

However, the following rules were highlighted as apart of the 'North India' Rishikesh segment of the Lonely Planet - Pilot Guides TV series. Here's what the ashram rules stated:
Quote:
"Compulsory for every inmate: No onions, no garlic, no meat, no fish, no eggs, no liquor, no smoking, no card playing, no chess, no nudity, no political discussions, no undesirable gestures & no joke telling."
Sounds like a barrel of laughs! Does one 'have' to eat in some ashrams as a part of the package? Would it be considered 'impure' to go out to a restaurant, have some meat & eggs, booze, toke & then reenter the ashram you are staying at? I ask because, I have no clue about this way of life. Please enlighten the unenlightened.




Quote:
Or he may have left it with somewhere for safekeeping in Laxman Jula – anyone any suggestions where people leave big bags if they are going trekking?
Yes, the norm is to 'park' at the accommodation you were last staying at. They will look after it, even if you are not going to stay there after you return from your excursion.
We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time. ~
T. S. Eliot

http://www.derekgrantdigital.com
#905 Apr 2nd, 2012, 20:31
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Originally Posted by PeakXV View Post Please enlighten the unenlightened.
Sorry you are beyond hope. Mission impossible!! KK
#906 Apr 2nd, 2012, 20:44
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Originally Posted by kullukid View Post Sorry you are beyond hope. Mission impossible!! KK
..... for the flippant response, yes!

I'm sure his parents & others don't know all the 'rules' either. Thus the open question. With all the niggly little 'rules' about - it seems daunting that 'that' particular ashram <which may hold a clue to his health, state-of-mind, disposition, direction> could be tracked down & questioned at this point.

.... but that 'no food' stipulation-thing seems pretty obscure even by Rishi standards & it just might be.
#907 Apr 2nd, 2012, 20:45
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Originally Posted by davidgreen100 View Post 10/1/12-talked with Sitigiri, a South African female Sadhu. She thought he didnt look well. Jonathan told her he had just been kicked out of his guest-house (for not eating?). He was shocked and incredulous that this was allowed to happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cassiopeia View Post 1. Would a guesthouse owner in India really kick somebody out for not eating?!? I donīt think so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiver me Timbers View Post Agree, this just sounds bizarre, I don't know what to make of it.
I don't think we should get too bogged down with this. My take on it is that Jonathan looked unwell and the guesthouse-owner didn't want to have to deal with contacting doctors etc if things got worse. He couldn't be bothered and also didn't want to attract attention from the 'authorities'.

It IS bizarre, and not in-keeping with our ideas of Indian hospitality. But strange things like this do happen. I was refused accommodation by more than one hotel in Krishnanagar, West Bengal. IMer Mousourik went there a couple of years later and asked them why and the manager said they didn't accept single foreign females in case they committed suicide . My point is just that hotel owners can sometimes have funny ideas, especially where foreigners are concerned.

This not-eating thing does crop up a lot though.

Jonathan had more than once visited that non-eating baba (in Gujurat?). He thought he had been kicked out of the guesthouse for not eating (whatever the reason for being kicked out, this does show that he probably wasn't eating, or not much anyway). He mentioned in conversation in early Feb that he had done a 10-day fast with a friend.

Where does this lead us? I don't know
#908 Apr 2nd, 2012, 20:51
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Originally Posted by cassiopeia View Post Hey,

sent missing posters on 25. March to:

- http://campgangariviera.com/pages/raftingroutes.html (Rafting Camp close to Neelkanth Bridge)

no answer until now

- http://www.jumpinheights.com/ (bungee Jumping center Neelkanth area)
no answer until now

- http://www.aspencamp.in/howtoreach.htm (Raftng Camp close to Neelkanth Bridge)
no answer until now

- http://www.mastweekend.com/
are not operating anymore in Rishikesh

- http://www.treksnrapids.com/

not answered until now.

Capt. maybe you can call them? Told them they should contact Lynda and David if any information and not me, so that infos are kept in one hand - but maybe it was not a good idea as they just ignored it??
Called/tried all....

Ganga Riveria, spoke to Anil Bisht: Not there, never came. He has seen posters around (plus the one emailed to him by you) and will get his guys to keep an eye out. He said most camps get people who stop at Rishikesh anyway, and Lakshman Jhula etc is well covered with posters of J. He said they get their crowd from Delhi who come directly to them. (I am sure some others do so too).


Jumping Heights, No Jonathan

Aspen Camp, No Jonathan

Mast weekend: Couldn't get through

Treks and Rapids.. No Jonathan.
#909 Apr 2nd, 2012, 21:00
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Originally Posted by JuliaF View Post d

This not-eating thing does crop up a lot though.

Jonathan had more than once visited that non-eating baba (in Gujurat?). He thought he had been kicked out of the guesthouse for not eating (whatever the reason for being kicked out, this does show that he probably wasn't eating, or not much anyway). He mentioned in conversation in early Feb that he had done a 10-day fast with a friend.

Where does this lead us? I don't know
It's not the eating thing as much as his need for water/hydration that is the greatest worry to me. Especially in India. Normal, coherent thinking can go out the window pretty quickly when dehydration sets in as the brain is 70% water.

Thus those breatharian gurus have to be partly fact & mostly fiction.
#910 Apr 2nd, 2012, 21:48
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Originally Posted by new_traveller View Post Just thinking out loud here and I might not make sense but , one never knows what can.

I see there are largly 2 root causes for J's disappearance -
  1. By choice (The much discussed probability of he reading shantaram or wanting a spiritual journey etc.
  2. Unwilling (could be by illness/drug/mental state or whatever)

In point 1 - One cannot be entirely secretive about this. His change in thoughts and urge to want a different way of life could have reflected in many ways to friends and family. Which maybe was not evident then, but might make sense now.

I do not believe a book can make completly transorm a person to do something like leaving his current life and moving into a new life. There must have been a desire and underlying stream of thoughts and urge which gave out some signals.

His close friends/family/people at work should be able to analyze this and confirm if he had any underlying thoughts which they can think of now.

IF all the closed ones are sure that option 1 is out of question then this can be eliminated and the focus can move on the 2nd possibility.

Which then can be broken down into
2.1 accident
2.2 Abduction (Can be eliminated as no contact from anyone)
2.3 Physical Health
2.4 Mental imbalance by substance or 2.3
and so on

This might help in narrowing down the possibilities and focusing more on the right ways to search.
I would not have wanted to bring this post of mine again, BUT Davids detailed post makes me again wonder if we are focusing too much on assuming he is in some ashram, wanting to change his life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidgreen100 View Post Thanks, New Traveller,
We have Jonathan's phone records and the details from where each call was made. This information has helped us to build a picture of his last known movements
David -I am not just suggesting on tracing a picture of his movements. I am suggesting to picture his state of mind.

This is my opinion and I could be wrong but wanted to put it across.
I do not see he being a person who would want to vanish as a yogi all of a sudden. He might be excited and amazed by the gurus or the spiritual places he visited. His friends whom he last spoke might be able to enlighten you more on it.
I for that matter can only analyze him as a person based on what we have read so far, BUT you are the right one to analyze.

Sorry Snifferdog, I know you might not agree on this method.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeakXV View Post It's not the eating thing as much as his need for water/hydration that is the greatest worry to me. Especially in India. Normal, coherent thinking can go out the window pretty quickly when dehydration sets in as the brain is 70% water.

Thus those breatharian gurus have to be partly fact & mostly fiction.

This is what also what worries me. There are times when a traveler shares his tough times with fellow travelers, but they are more of sharing it as a travel experience. I do share with other how tough the ride to ladakh was and how much of a pain it was for my back and a$$, but this is more of sharing the challenges of my journey.

But what I see with J is much more than that. He was also becoming weak. I would disagree on a guesthouse owner kicking him out for not eating, BUT is it not possible that he was so dehydrated and weak that he appeared stoned. The guesthouse owner might have misunderstood him to be high with some illegal substance, and could have asked him to leave.

Should the search not be more focused on hospitals, medical shops, guesthouse, local huts on his trek paths?
Bike rides - Kashmir to Leh and Sikkim, Jungle safaris - Corbett,Chikhaldara, Kanha and Gorumara. Traveled through MP, Himachal, J&K, Maharashtra, W.Bengal, Sikkim, Uttarakhand, Goa, Karnataka, AP . . . Yet feel so New to traveling in India.
#911 Apr 2nd, 2012, 22:04
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Originally Posted by new_traveller View Post I would disagree on a guesthouse owner kicking him out for not eating, BUT is it not possible that he was so dehydrated and weak that he appeared stoned. The guesthouse owner might have misunderstood him to be high with some illegal substance, and could have asked him to leave.

Should the search not be more focused on hospitals, medical shops, guesthouse, local huts on his trek paths?
Yes - very good observations. I might add the kidney stones are often a result of dehydration. The most common cause of kidney stones is not drinking enough water. The way to pass a kidney stone faster is through plenty of fluids. He may have become confused &/or gotten bad/poor information from his 'gurus' on this one.

Quote:
13/1/12-last cash withdrawn in 2 transactions of IR10,000 and IR5,000 (location Swargashram ATM - in bank records, date of 17th)
That's about $300 bucks withdrawn on January 13th. How long does that last the average backpacker in backpacker land?
#912 Apr 2nd, 2012, 22:31
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Originally Posted by capt_mahajan View Post Called/tried all....

Ganga Riveria, spoke to Anil Bisht: Not there, never came. He has seen posters around (plus the one emailed to him by you) and will get his guys to keep an eye out. He said most camps get people who stop at Rishikesh anyway, and Lakshman Jhula etc is well covered with posters of J. He said they get their crowd from Delhi who come directly to them. (I am sure some others do so too).


Jumping Heights, No Jonathan

Aspen Camp, No Jonathan

Mast weekend: Couldn't get through

Treks and Rapids.. No Jonathan.
Thanks Captain

Thought they might have seen him as these camps are close to the Neelkanth Bridge, Garud Chatti ... and also on one website they posted a snap of a group venturing to one waterfall..

No need to call Mast weekend - he was the onlyne answering: they are not operating in Rishikesh anymore. to

Will send a message to this sacha dham ashram if they are still operating.


What I really do not get: People who saw him said he had pain caused by his kidney stone and was very skinny - how can he go on a trek in this condition
#913 Apr 2nd, 2012, 22:53
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Originally Posted by PeakXV View Post
Here's what the ashram rules stated:


Sounds like a barrel of laughs! Does one 'have' to eat in some ashrams as a part of the package? Would it be considered 'impure' to go out to a restaurant, have some meat & eggs, booze, toke & then reenter the ashram you are staying at? I ask because, I have no clue about this way of life. Please enlighten the unenlightened.

.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeakXV View Post ..... for the flippant response, yes!

I'm sure his parents & others don't know all the 'rules' either. Thus the open question. With all the niggly little 'rules' about - it seems daunting that 'that' particular ashram <which may hold a clue to his health, state-of-mind, disposition, direction> could be tracked down & questioned at this point.

.... but that 'no food' stipulation-thing seems pretty obscure even by Rishi standards & it just might be.

Peak,there was never any mention of him staying in a ashram & David's post. But to answer your question, yes some ashrams you can go out everyday & do what you like,others have verrreeee strict rules,they vary enormously.KK
#914 Apr 2nd, 2012, 22:55
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Originally Posted by PeakXV View Post
That's about $300 bucks withdrawn on January 13th. How long does that last the average backpacker in backpacker land?
A month if you are careful, a lot longer if you are sleeping in the wild & not paying for hotels & expensive cafes/restaurants.KK
#915 Apr 2nd, 2012, 22:58
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Originally Posted by cassiopeia View Post
Will send a message to this sacha dham ashram if they are still operating.

He won't be there, i put David in touch with someone who goes there everyday & he hadn't seen him, it's right near the centre of the tourist area,not secluded.KK
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