Have you seen Jonathan Spollen? Missing in Rishikesh since February 3rd, 2012

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#886 Apr 2nd, 2012, 16:53
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  • davidgreen100 is offline
#886
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Originally Posted by capt_mahajan View Post Have sent some emails from kullukid's last links- with a short enquiry and the poster attached.
Belated thanks, Captain, for taking the initiative. I can't believe how much information IM'ers have been able to come up with. It's a time consuming business trying to follow it up, especially now that there is just one person in Laxman Jhula at the moment, so your assistance is invaluable.
#887 Apr 2nd, 2012, 17:05
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#887
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Originally Posted by Nick-H View Post It's India. Everything Indian is relevant. Everything specifically pertaining to that area is relevant too. There are no bad ideas, and "thinking outside the box" is a damn good idea. But for every "people just don't..." suggestion, there is probably an answer, "yes, they do."

As long as forty years ago, I used to see, in a London magazine, a weekly strip of two or three photos of missing people. I didn't know or recognise any of them, so it passed without registering much, and without even accumulating the totals. To me it was just two or three missing people. I guess I must have read an article, or seen a tv program, that made me realise that is was tens, and even hundreds, of thousands of people that, with no known reason or expectation, vanish, sometimes for days, sometimes for longer. Unless it happened to someone close to us, we underestimate this phenomenon, and we never met anyone who disappeared, because, as one of the articles quotes, they may have disappeared to those left behind, but not to themselves --- except, maybe, in the rare cases of amnesia.

I think this thread must be followed by many of us that have not posted because we cannot do or say anything useful, whereas a core group of people are contributing local knowledge or doing stuff, or just coming up with good ideas.

Now, I think it might be useful to suggest that those who are already doing so much also get a wider viewpoint.

I knew this has been covered. I googled "why do people disappear." Here's one article from the BBC, another from UK's Independent newspaper. There are many more.

Sorry, if this is a "yeah, yeah: been there, read that, known all that for years." Just... for those who haven't, it might help to open up that thinking box a little more.
As you say, Nick, he is only disappeared to those who know him. To you and everyone else, he is a fellow traveller you might bump into in a cafe or on a mountain trail. How many other young men and women are there in the foothills of the Himalayas who are lost to their families but not to themselves?
This is why I always say to travellers on the road - text or call your family! You have no idea how much it means to them. You may think, because you are on the road, among friends, discovering a different way of life, that it is enough for your family to hear from you every few weeks. Maybe it's enough for you, but for them, you are in a strange world they can never hope to understand unless they have been to India themselves. It's also for your own safety, so that someone knows where you are, or where you can be found. This information can be amazingly important, and it only takes a couple of minutes of your time. If you haven't been in touch in the last week, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, GO ON!!!
#888 Apr 2nd, 2012, 17:11
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#888
Hi David. I've put a link to your detailed post above into the first post of the thread.
#889 Apr 2nd, 2012, 17:30
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Thanks for the detailed update David,this gives us a much clearer picture of some of J's movements & where is head was at during this period. We know you must be very busy, but keep adding any new info as soon as you can to keep us all in the picture,it may just make something click with one of us. KK
#890 Apr 2nd, 2012, 17:37
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#890
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Originally Posted by federica View Post This was written in January 2008
Good point federica,i was in a rush when i saw this yesterday but i still think it would be worth contacting this guy to find out more about Atma Kutir where westerners seem to hangout with Sadhu's & with the Osho woman with the Zen Temple??
Ideally someone or R'kesh police should be visiting this place, since it's fairly close to where J's belongings were found & it sounds like the sort of place someone into Spiritual stuff would find interesting & may want to hangout,could this be where J was on the missing days listed above? he told the English guy he'd just come from the hills???
KK
#891 Apr 2nd, 2012, 18:03
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Originally Posted by Snifferdog View Post Hi,
yes this is the link I posted in trekkingforum.com and it was crossposted here, also. I don´t know how they work but it´s worth to ask them for help. But I know that this dutch search dog group is searching for individuals getting lost worldwide and not only after disasters.




Yes, I´ve read it also and I´m sure they´ve done their very best. But same time, I know very well how difficult it is to search heavy areas exactly. I have no idea how experienced the search party is in search missions, tacticals and so on. I´ve read also that David was worried if one of the volunteers would have an accident by this difficult terrain while searching. If searching without well-trained air scenting dogs, you need a really big team and strict discipline and must be very fit in navigation and keeping search grids.
As I understood, the police brought 1 police dog. One dog in a large, heavy area is not much at all and what I ask me, what was the training skills of this dog? If he was a common tracking dog (working on leash???), he would not have had little change to find a trace of Jonathan. This does not mean the dog was a bad trained one, it depends on the methods you teach your dog. I know excellent Mantrailer dogs but after 4 weeks they can not do anything - it´s simply nature of this method! And for worst case, your dog must be trained for dead scent. I don´t know if this police dog was.

Best regards, Daniela
Thanks for your comprehensive information, Daniela. You have correctly ascertained that our search was made with the best resources we could get at the time. We obtained the use of a police alpinist team, we recruited local trekking guides and we had one sniffer dog for a day. I do not know what skills this dog possessed, but it would have been at least a week after the belongings were left on the ground, because there was mould on Jonathan's book and papers. The mountain area is sizeable - I would guess about 12 sq km of densely vegetated forest. We have followed the most commonly used trails leading to the ridge, from both ends of the mountain, and the waterfall trail which follows a stream to the summit, about midway across the mountain. We did not have the resources or the knowledge to search it in the manner you recommend. I would be interested to hear what you would recommend at this point, as you are an expert in this area. I have also e-mailed the Dutch company you mentioned.
#892 Apr 2nd, 2012, 18:07
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Originally Posted by new_traveller View Post That is what we have heard from Lynda. I was referring to the records from the mobile company.
Someone should have done this - maybe the police. but still if it is not done then getting a detailed call record for the mobile number. Trying to analyze whom he called and what he spoke in case some of the numbers are unknown or local.
Thanks, New Traveller,
We have Jonathan's phone records and the details from where each call was made. This information has helped us to build a picture of his last known movements
#893 Apr 2nd, 2012, 18:16
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#893
Hey,

sent missing posters on 25. March to:

- http://campgangariviera.com/pages/raftingroutes.html (Rafting Camp close to Neelkanth Bridge)

no answer until now

- http://www.jumpinheights.com/ (bungee Jumping center Neelkanth area)
no answer until now

- http://www.aspencamp.in/howtoreach.htm (Raftng Camp close to Neelkanth Bridge)
no answer until now

- http://www.mastweekend.com/
are not operating anymore in Rishikesh

- http://www.treksnrapids.com/

not answered until now.

Capt. maybe you can call them? Told them they should contact Lynda and David if any information and not me, so that infos are kept in one hand - but maybe it was not a good idea as they just ignored it??
#894 Apr 2nd, 2012, 18:21
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#894
Hey David,

thanks for updating and good to hear that you are still keeping up!

Think everyone here is hoping for some good news soon.
#895 Apr 2nd, 2012, 18:23
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Are there any alternative healers in Rishikesh or in that area? Maybe Jonathan has been to one as from David's last posts he was really suffering physically.
#896 Apr 2nd, 2012, 18:43
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Captain:

Sorry, don´t find your Ashram contact list at the moment.

Did you contact Sacha Dham Ashram? (is it closed or what is going on there after their guru expired9

As he was interested in Shantimai who ist in the line of this baba.

there is also a list of other Babas in this line on their homepage

http://www.hansraj-maharajji.org/links.html

Ps: Just checked the links out: Seems that all of the babas of this line are westeners!

Only this Shantimayi is in Rishikesh, all others have their ashrams outside of India.

For me it seems like he was more interested in "Mainstream spiritual teachings" popular with backpacker tourists.

Also his fast moving from guesthouse to guesthouse ?!?!Speaking for myself: As long as i feel comfortable in one guesthouse I´m really lazy to move somewhere else.
For me it seems like, he was searching for company and friends - otherwise I don´t understand why he was changing so fast. Sometimes life of a backpacker can be kind of lonely and sometimes especially in this time we are kind of vunerable to ideas we normally would not spent one second to think about, or we make friends with people we normally wouldn´t...
#897 Apr 2nd, 2012, 18:52
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Good points, Paleface

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paleface View Post Engaging anyone seriously via the phone or expecting a follow up from people busy working a pill shop/clinic is generally a hiding to nothing Capt. And imo rather pointless.

Agreed that we’ve just about run out of steam and straw clutching is where we arrived at days ago. David Green hasn’t updated in a while, hardly surprising given the suffering and there’s probably little to inform anyway.

As David also agreed that local terrain is surely steep sided, and walking up or down off pathway is tricky, often more of a scrabble. But it’s not dense forest, or ravine ridden. Trees are there obviously and consequently people are always searching for fuel wood.

What i’m trying to convey is that one way or another the whole land has someone foraging, goat herding etc through it at some stage and probably more so recently because of the investigation. Yet Snifferdog’s expertise and points have been received by us all loud and clear. It’s an outside chance that the bush might be camouflaging a clue, but who’s in Rishi now to organise anything, which isn't easy at the best of times?
Now that you mention it, Paleface, I was surprised by the number of people on the waterfall track - mostly locals carrying leaf and firewood. It is hard to imagine, if he were still there, that he would not be found.
#898 Apr 2nd, 2012, 19:13
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#898
two more things:

1. Would a guesthouse owner in India really kick somebody out for not eating?!? I don´t think so. If it is a really nice owner, maybe owned by a indian family as I met really many - then they would do their best to make him eat, call a doctor, care for him - but would never kick him out!!!
If the owner is a real business man then he would not care at all if J. was eating or not - why should it bother him?!
Reason for kicking J. out must be something else.

2. Jaipur Gem This is a jewellery emporium - nothing to do with medition.
There is one cafe Ananda close by this emporium - maybe he was talking about thishttp://www.cosmotourist.de/reisetipp...-laxman-jhula/
#899 Apr 2nd, 2012, 19:23
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Originally Posted by cassiopeia View Post 1. Would a guesthouse owner in India really kick somebody out for not eating?!? I don´t think so.
Agree, this just sounds bizarre, I don't know what to make of it.
#900 Apr 2nd, 2012, 19:28
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Originally Posted by cassiopeia View Post
2. Jaipur Gem This is a jewellery emporium - nothing to do with medition.
There is one cafe Ananda close by this emporium - maybe he was talking about thishttp://www.cosmotourist.de/reisetipp...-laxman-jhula/
The owner of Jaipur gems is a very Spiritual man, who has contacts with Swami's such as Western Swami Kriyananda disciple of Yogananda http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GVGB16fncQ

& he arranges for people to meet Swami Jnanananda in Dehra Dun a swiss Swami who's lived in India since walking overland in 1950's after reading "Autobiography of a Yogi"
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