Have you seen Jonathan Spollen? Missing in Rishikesh since February 3rd, 2012

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#721 Mar 26th, 2012, 21:19
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#721
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Originally Posted by kullukid View Post Depends how you define bad,it could mean Baba's that want to beg money from you =70% ish

My definition would be ~ one who plays on others insecurities & mental instabilities in a overly controlling manner &/or to hold on to them for extended periods of time.

~20%?
We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time. ~
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#722 Mar 26th, 2012, 21:34
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Originally Posted by afz View Post Thanks. Completely speculating now (and the story I linked to is very short on details), but it seems possible that if he had become involved with such a person who claims supernatural abilities, become close to his circle and subsequently discovered that the individual does in fact eat and drink in secret, especially as he is an international journalist, the group may want to hold him so he has a chance to "reconsider" what he'll tell the world.
You have a valid arguement; however, for your theory to be true in this context, there should be a Baba claiming to have superntural/spiritual powers, residing in or around Rishikesh.

Believe me or not, spiritualism has become a business in India (these are my personal views though) and any Baba who thinks that he can claim an iota of spiritual powers, would be in the news next day. Such babas thrive on popularity and can not survive in oblivian.

The case of Ram Bahadur Bamjan, which you refered to earlier, is different. He has been in controversies since claimed to be a reincarnation of Gautam Budhha (though it is said that the boy himself denies this). Once he went in to meditation for days. His followers (primarily the people of his village) claimed that he had stopped taking food then. It attracted the media from worldover. The place where Bamjan was meditating turned in to a shrine with thousands of pilgrims turning up to see him and donating thousands of rupees (got a clue ). One day Bamjan disappeared suddently to surface again days later. Her family members cited security reasons for his disappearnce.

The controversy around him still persists. May be the woman got a hint of the charade (if it is so as alleged), and hence found herself in such a situation.

If I am correct, there is no such Baba in Rishikesh claiming any reincarnation or possessing any spiritual powers, so as to be under threat of being exposed.
#723 Mar 26th, 2012, 21:42
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Originally Posted by Photofreak View Post Believe me or not, spiritualism has become a business in India (these are my personal views though) and any Baba who thinks that he can claim an iota of spiritual powers, would be in the news next day. Such babas thrive on popularity and can not survive in obscurity.
It wouldn't have to be that extreme. I would imagine most would prefer to fly under the radar. Journalist Scott Carney was doing some research a few years back on westerners who do not return from Indian spiritual journeys.

See Off the Spiritual Deep End

Perhaps he could be contacted, as he may have some input &/or theories into Jonathan's rather abrupt disappearance!?
#724 Mar 26th, 2012, 22:03
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#724
Hare bapre boys - Please stop this "Baba-Cult" speculating theorys!

I think the aspect that hes maybe wandering on a spiritual path hasnīt been neglected in this thread.

But actually it doesnīt bring us one single step further to speculate about how many percentages of babas are good or bad or manipulating people or eating dogs or brains or ....

as long as we donīt have a single trace of a baba Jonathan could follow and any trace that he was even with a guru baba or even has been to an ashram!!
Beside that itīs much more likely in my view, if he follows a spiritual path, that he got fascinated about some aspects of philosophy and is wandering on a spiritual path on his own or is following a sadhu without beeing tracked in a cult.

@kullukid: good idea to widen the net of searching and good idea to do a compilation of gueshouses and so on in a different threat - But I think David and Lynda should decide about it in the end

And: Are Rishikesh and Haridwar "covered"?
Means: Have all guesthouses been informed to check their registration books, ask their guests and hang posters
same with the ashrams
Have travel agents, restaurants, shopkeepers in laxman Jhula been informed.
Villages around Rishikesh
and oh yes, Rikshaw drivers are always a good source.

Didnīt want to interfer but I send a email with the missing poster to three Rafting resorts around Garud Chatti - maybe youīve already done that.
#725 Mar 26th, 2012, 22:05
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Originally Posted by PeakXV View Post It wouldn't have to be that extreme. I would imagine most would prefer to fly under the radar.
I just wanted to say that a crook posing as a Baba and "flying under the radar" has less to lose if exposed, as compared with a Baba who attracts public attention on daily basis.

It would be interesting to know though where did Carney's research end?
#726 Mar 26th, 2012, 22:07
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Originally Posted by cassiopeia View Post Hare bapre boys - Please stop this "Baba-Cult" speculating theorys!

I think the aspect that hes maybe wandering on a spiritual path hasnīt been neglected in this thread.

But actually it doesnīt bring us one step further to speculated about how many percentages of babas are good or bad or manipulating people or eating dogs or brains or ....

as long as we donīt have a single trace of a baba Jonathan could follow and any trace that he was even with a guru baba or even has been to an ashram!!

@kullukid: good idea to widen the net of searching and good idea to do a compilation of gueshouses and so on in a different threat - But I think David and Lynda should decide about it in the end

And: Are Rishikesh and Haridwar "covered"?
Means: Have all guesthouses been informed to check their registration books, ask their guests and hang posters
same with the ashrams
Have travel agents, restaurants, shopkeepers in laxman Jhula been informed.
Villages around Rishikesh
and oh yes, Rikshaw drivers are always a good source.

Didnīt want to interfer but I send a email with the missing poster to three Rafting resorts around Garud Chatti - maybe youīve already done that.
Most of the questions you have raised so far are pertinent and have been rasied by various members previously. I think the Indian police is competent enough to have covered the aspects mentioned by you, by now. Thanks for a recall anyways
#727 Mar 26th, 2012, 22:08
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#727
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Originally Posted by cassiopeia View Post
But actually it doesnīt bring us one step further to speculated about how many percentages of babas are good or bad or manipulating people or eating dogs or brains or ....
True! But then again it doesn't do us any good to be in complete denial &/or attempt to sanitize the more shadier side of spiritual tourism. Or does it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Photofreak View Post I just wanted to say that a crook posing as a Baba and "flying under the radar" has less to lose if exposed, as compared with a Baba who attracts public attention on daily basis.

It would be interesting to know though where did Carney's research end?
Controlling babas want to 'control' their subjects ... not attract public attention. I would assume Carney's research is ongoing. Information of this type is hard to source and even harder to extract. The Spiritual types are very tight lipped on anything negative - it's considered bad Karma Cola.
#728 Mar 26th, 2012, 22:12
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#728
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Originally Posted by PeakXV View Post
See Off the Spiritual Deep End
Quote:
Originally Posted by cassiopeia View Post Hare bapre boys - Please stop this "Baba-Cult" speculating theorys!

I think the aspect that hes maybe wandering on a spiritual path hasnīt been neglected in this thread.

But actually it doesnīt bring us one step further to speculated about how many percentages of babas are good or bad or manipulating people or eating dogs or brains or ....


@kullukid: good idea to widen the net of searching and good idea to do a compilation of gueshouses and so on in a different threat - But I think David and Lynda should decide about it in the end
Well said cassiopeia,glad someone noticed my suggestion amongst all this scaremongering debris!!

Peak i'm sure you mean well, but don't you find it odd that no-one ever replied to his thread & when you go to his website & look at his articles there's no mention of going "off the Spiritual Deepend"???KK
#729 Mar 26th, 2012, 22:18
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Originally Posted by kullukid View Post Peak i'm sure you mean well, but don't you find it odd that no-one ever replied to his thread & when you go to his website & look at his articles there's no mention of going "off the Spiritual Deepend"???KK
No - I find it very, very predictable. Hush-hush is the norm with this topic. The spiritual types get quite perturbed, annoyed when it is even 'suggested'. Bad Karma Cola.

Imo, the topic would take a long, long time to research, investigate & could be a dangerous task as that. I'm sure his work is ongoing.
#730 Mar 26th, 2012, 22:26
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#730
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Originally Posted by PeakXV View Post
Controlling babas want to 'control' their subjects ... not attract public attention.
Controlling babas want to control their subjects for what? if any subject goes out of their loop what harm it does to them?

And who says that babas under public attention do not want to control their subjects?

Anyways.. this was not my starting argument.
#731 Mar 26th, 2012, 22:29
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#731
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Originally Posted by Photofreak View Post Controlling babas want to control their subjects for what?
Control freaks are the same in any corner of the world, aren't they?
#732 Mar 26th, 2012, 22:31
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Originally Posted by DaniMontana View Post This (the caves issue) seems to be very valid info. Whether or not we "should" be going somewhere should not be left up to one or two people to decide, unless the one or two people are the mods. All theories, unless they get way off on a tangent, are valid, but this one was the one that stuck in my mind.
I have to say the babas in the caves has been jumping out of every conversation Myself, stefan and dermot have had in the last few weeks.

S and D spoke about these holymen in the caves above LMJ during the meal where they met Jonathan. They spoke of other westerners that had spent time up there back in 1999 when they (Stef and Dermo were last in Rishi)
They discussed the interesting way that people become involved in the ascetic way of life.

However, It was one of the topics that came up, they found he was very interested and an engaging conversationalist and seemed even interested in the mundane, stefan spoke about me and our kids and what its like having a young family etc.
#733 Mar 26th, 2012, 22:34
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#733
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Originally Posted by kullukid View Post Peak i'm sure you mean well, but don't you find it odd that no-one ever replied to his thread & when you go to his website & look at his articles there's no mention of going "off the Spiritual Deepend"???KK
To add to it, it is one thing to start researching on a subject based on a hypothesis and it is another thing to prove a hypothesis right based on credible evidence
#734 Mar 26th, 2012, 22:34
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#734
not suggesting he has been literally sucked into something dodgy either, maybe just an alternative way of living for a spell
#735 Mar 26th, 2012, 22:36
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#735
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Originally Posted by PeakXV View Post No - I find it very, very predictable. Hush-hush is the norm with this topic. The spiritual types get quite perturbed, annoyed when it is even 'suggested'. Bad Karma Cola.

Imo, the topic would take a long, long time to research, investigate & could be a dangerous task as that. I'm sure his work is ongoing.
So, if you have a precise name of a baba in Rishikesh who is leading some cult you can forward it. If you know a baba Jonathan is following than do the same - as long as not, in respect to the topic of this threat, stop your cult-theories, please

Quote:
Most of the questions you have raised so far are pertinent and have been rasied by various members previously. I think the Indian police is competent enough to have covered the aspects mentioned by you, by now. Thanks for a recall anyways
I really donīt want to question the work and competence of the indian police. But Iīm really sorry to admit that my questioning and recalling of this all is due to the fact that my experiences with indian police until now didnīt give me the feeling that everything what has to be done will be done.
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