Have you seen Jonathan Spollen? Missing in Rishikesh since February 3rd, 2012

#2011 Feb 28th, 2017, 15:37
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#2011
Another small article here by the Newspaper Jonathon worked for;

http://www.thenational.ae/opinion/ed...-disappearance
SOS: Missing Person...

Please look at this thread: http://www.indiamike.com/india/uttar...012-a-t159252/

He could be anywhere now: You might have met him, be able to help, or give information.
#2012 Feb 28th, 2017, 17:43
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#2012
Can someone who has followed this thread please explain why the obvious .. he might have been carried away by a leopard has apparently been dismissed?
#2013 Feb 28th, 2017, 17:48
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#2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by old india hand View Post Can someone who has followed this thread please explain why the obvious .. he might have been carried away by a leopard has apparently been dismissed?

I thought the same thing. Apparently a large predator such as a leopard drags their prey and would have left traces in the undergrowth.

My thoughts are with Jonathan 's family.
"Everything is hard before it is easy." - Goethe
#2014 Feb 28th, 2017, 17:53
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#2014
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Originally Posted by theyyamdancer View Post
Apparently a large predator such as a leopard drags their prey and would have left traces in the undergrowth.

Were there some days or weeks before search and wet, any rain ?
#2015 Feb 28th, 2017, 17:59
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#2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by old india hand View Post Can someone who has followed this thread please explain why the obvious .. he might have been carried away by a leopard has apparently been dismissed?
I think this disproves that theory;

"In the following days, some scrunched-up cards and papers, including his health card and Hong Kong travel pass, were found on a narrow trail a kilometre way."

Did the leopard take the papers out of his pocket & scrunch them up?
Wouldn't there have been remnants of his clothing?
#2016 Feb 28th, 2017, 18:19
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#2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by kullukid View Post I think this disproves that theory;

"In the following days, some scrunched-up cards and papers, including his health card and Hong Kong travel pass, were found on a narrow trail a kilometre way."

Did the leopard take the papers out of his pocket & scrunch them up?
Wouldn't there have been remnants of his clothing?


leopard drags body along trail therefore little traces .. pocket breaks open, papers fall out .. leopards know how to hide .. remnants in a deep gully very unlikely to find.
#2017 Feb 28th, 2017, 18:24
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#2017
I've decided to post on Facebook after much deliberation no to. Having been up the mountains in HP myself. The speed in which these torrents can race down the rivers and sweep you away. Plus a body floating for a while even a white person, once it's been bruised and bashed and swollen in the sun would look pretty much like a local. And in the great tradition of Buddhist, Hindu and Jain people union finding a body, would probably dispose of it, as many Thai monks did after the tsunami, cremation get the body and doing a service to it. Here in the west we would rail against that. But in India it is a practical and morally justifiable act to cremate a body of a body they found in a river. Without looking for identification. Anyone agree?
#2018 Feb 28th, 2017, 18:32
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#2018
There are not only those scrumched-up docs. Sleeping gear (a sleeping bag if memory serves) was found at an improvised campsite, together with other belongings and cash. No sign of a disturbance or struggle. It's like he stood up and walked off. Also, these elements were investigated by locals who know the lay of the land, I'm sure they considered the possibility of a four-legged predator and discarded it.
"It is preferable to have a criminal for a servant rather than a fool because a criminal's actions are predictable and you can protect yourself against them, whereas there is no telling what a fool's next move will be.
#2019 Mar 1st, 2017, 03:49
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#2019
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Originally Posted by dillichaat View Post
at an improvised campsite, together with other belongings and cash. No sign of a disturbance or struggle.
... investigated by locals who know the lay of the land, I'm sure they considered the possibility of a four-legged predator and discarded it.


Leopards strike from behind to the neck, if leopard on target, neck snaps on first impact, victim gone in an instant and unaware.
Jonathan appears tall but thin and had been unwell in India .. he was probably not a heavy weight.
Faith in willing abilities of local police to search how many square kilometres of rugged forest !

How many days between last appearance and finding of belongings ?
#2020 Mar 1st, 2017, 11:12
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#2020
Does any know the Google Earth co-ordinates of the location, where John's belongings, his bag and other stuff were found? Please post if you have the correct co-ordinates.
#2021 Mar 1st, 2017, 11:31
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#2021
Quote:
Originally Posted by old india hand View Post Leopards strike from behind to the neck, if leopard on target, neck snaps on first impact, victim gone in an instant and unaware.
Jonathan appears tall but thin and had been unwell in India .. he was probably not a heavy weight.
Faith in willing abilities of local police to search how many square kilometres of rugged forest !

How many days between last appearance and finding of belongings ?
You should make the effort of at least reading the first 40 pages of this thread before starting to build theories out of thin air and trying to make a leopard fit the bill while there are myriad other explanations.....

If you'd have done so then you'd know that:
- Last document confirmed sighting on 02/03 Feb (C-form from lodge)
- Last conversation on 03 Feb at 09:48 India time (talk to mother over the phone). Phone switched off since then.
- Last seen by witnesses (not substantiated by documents) on or about 12-14 Feb (meeting at a café where they talked to him)
- Sleeping bag etc found on or about 11 march, other docs quickly thereafter.
- Stuff was found in the vicinity of Garud ki chatti waterfall (water there not deep enough to drown in). You'd need gps coordinates, it's not an easy place to find, a traveller wandered over 'm by accident. Indications were that his gear had been there a while.
#2022 Mar 1st, 2017, 12:05
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#2022
Quote:
Originally Posted by dillichaat View Post You should make the effort of at least reading the first 40 pages of this thread before starting to build theories out of thin air and trying to make a leopard fit the bill while there are myriad other explanations.....

If you'd have done so then you'd know that:
- Last document confirmed sighting on 02/03 Feb (C-form from lodge)
- Last conversation at 09:48 India time (talk to mother over the phone)
- Last seen by witnesses (not substantiated by documents) on or about 12-14 Feb (meeting at a café where they talked to him)
- Sleeping bag etc found on or about 11 march, other docs quickly thereafter.
- Stuff was found in the vicinity of Garud ki chatti waterfall (water there not deep enough to drown in). You'd need gps coordinates, it's not an easy place to find, a traveller wandered over 'm by accident. Indications were that his gear had been there a while.


So belongings possibly in forest for about one month, any rainfall recorded during those weeks?

You forgot to mention at post # 525
Cards & documents (E1-11 Health form etc) discovered 1km away further up the trail in a small hollow on 12th March. In good condition. In two piles about 1m from each other. They were balled up and discarded
Somewhat an inconsistency, either ‘good condition’ or ‘balled up’?

Have skim read up to 23 March #562 .. are some thoughts of possible robbery, found no discussion of animal attack.

You know how common leopards are?
#2023 Mar 1st, 2017, 12:39
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#2023
Quote:
Originally Posted by old india hand View Post So belongings possibly in forest for about one month, any rainfall recorded during those weeks?

You forgot to mention at post # 525
Cards & documents (E1-11 Health form etc) discovered 1km away further up the trail in a small hollow on 12th March. In good condition. In two piles about 1m from each other. They were balled up and discarded
Somewhat an inconsistency, either ‘good condition’ or ‘balled up’?

Have skim read up to 23 March #562 .. are some thoughts of possible robbery, found no discussion of animal attack.

You know how common leopards are?
p(meteor strike)<p(leopard)<p(accident) I guess. Locals would have known about a leopard roaming about at that time (there were sightings in 2014). But that's not the point. What does constructing one more unsubstantiated theory bring at this stage?

I'm aware of the other docs. Thorough reading would have shown you that it rained more than average in the weeks preceding 11 March.

Second guessing is easy, what I believe happened regarding the search is that initially the authorities were not too concerned; many people go 'missing' in that area and most return. In retrospect that lack of interest appears crass, from a practical point I can understand their reluctance. The net result however was that the initial effort in the field was uncoordinated (though intensively supported by a couple of posters here). All of that changed after the gear and cash were found and searches, including with dogs, were conducted in the area. Authorities went into high gear at that stage. But much time was lost, first of all in checking records in order to reconstruct his movements at the end of Jan, beginning of Feb, then the huge and unexplained gap between Feb 3 and the last witness sighting on Feb 12-14 (the witnesses appear reliable but if you've ever dealt with witness reports then you'll know it's better to back'm up with physical evidence). Also, his visa expired on Feb. 21.

Lots of questions, very little hard established facts. 5 years down the road it's up to chance.
#2024 Mar 1st, 2017, 13:06
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#2024
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Originally Posted by dillichaat View Post
All of that changed after the gear and cash were found and searches, including with dogs, were conducted in the area. Authorities went into high gear at that stage.



Given the pressure on the case .. would the local police say ‘sorry is likely he’s been eaten and there’s not much to find’ .. or go through the motions .. with dogs after weeks with rain!?

With hundreds of posts here on IM dedicated to hope and search would anybody say the unsayable. Did the narrative of the search take on such a momentum that is has to continue.

Disclaimer .. have not read beyond post #562 .. .
#2025 Mar 1st, 2017, 13:44
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#2025
Quote:
Originally Posted by old india hand View Post Given the pressure on the case .. would the local police say ‘sorry is likely he’s been eaten and there’s not much to find’ .. or go through the motions .. with dogs after weeks with rain!?

With hundreds of posts here on IM dedicated to hope and search would anybody say the unsayable. Did the narrative of the search take on such a momentum that is has to continue.

Disclaimer .. have not read beyond post #562 .. .
Police everywhere prefer closing a case to having it on the books. Fwiw, an acquaintance of mine (I was based in Delhi back then) who was at the time professionally involved in 'missing' tourist cases for a country that has its fair share of nationals go off the radar in India told me that he talked with the LEO in charge of the file, somewhere toward the end of 2012 and mentioned this case (he was there for another reason). He reckons they made a decent effort, taking into account the circumstances and other stuff they have on their plate. Local police have their own theory (that does not involve a leopard) about what happened, based on experience with similar cases but in the ansence of evidence it's only that, a theory, and I hardly think this is the place to speculate.
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