Have you seen Jonathan Spollen? Missing in Rishikesh since February 3rd, 2012

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#1681 Jun 6th, 2012, 22:12
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#1681
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Originally Posted by kullukid View Post True,but they tend to leave a bit of a mess,which there was no evidence of when the area around the waterfall was searched & even if it was further afield you would imagine that some local or trekking agency of which there are many operating in that area would have stumbled across some evidence by now.KK
Leopards are a very, very different animal though. They've been known to carry their human prey over 4 miles from the point of attack & in that specific region of the world.... regardless of the steepness of the ravines or density of jungle in their path. This according to Jim Corbett's research/findings in The Man-Eating Leopard of Rudraprayag.
We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time. ~
T. S. Eliot

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#1682 Jun 9th, 2012, 14:42
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#1682

Time Has Passed and Still No Wiser

This has gone on too long now, really, don't people think.
If Jonathan's body has not been found in the wilds, if he has not been found ill and trying to recover in some nearby location, if he has not authentically been spotted by anyone anywhere, even in an ashram situation, then, though I hate to say it, and don't want to upset anyone, maybe this disappearance is not self construed but is of a sinister nature.
For I've heard it said that other travellers have disappeared, most notably for me the Australian Ryan Chambers some years earlier, who before he disappeared had been to see a guru like figure, which if I recall correctly left him in a disturbance, and he had been noted to have whip like marks on his back. I think it was stated previously that the to disappearing incidents are thought not to have been connected. But why?
Though we all want to believe in good outcomes, it also has to be accepted that there can be sinister reasons for why people disappear. The nicer suggestions we cling onto with quite some hope, about people wanting to go invisible for spiritual reasons or to drop out, but this could be deflecting from potentially serious threats to other travellers that need to be taken on board.
It was not so many years ago now, that too many people disappeared in the Parvati Valley, cases that were never resolved and so many that they must have been due to sinister interference.
Then even earlier, and I know these was way back in the 70's but it shows how vulnerable travellers can be to charisamatic characters, there was the psychopath, Charles Sobraj, who killed travellers for some time before being caught.
I know we all want to keep hope, but with all seriousness, I think this disappearance should be taken as a cue to investigate what it may be in the Rishikesh area that has led to male travellers disappearing. I don't know how many this may be, but even if it were just Ryan and Jonathan that is two people too many.
Presuming someone to be in an ashram may sound positive hope enough, they help to satiate ones spiritual yearnings, to some degree, but it also has to be realised that ashrams are not all positive places, not by any means. The psychological nature of any cultish group, is that often enough it is led by an overly egotistical and narcissistic leader, who is seen as a god like figure no matter how outrageously he behaves. Inner circles of followers are cultivated who will do anything for these leaders.
I bring this up because I have been in a strange enough ashram myself, and have seen how seemingly sane and intelligent people then become divorced from reality, so that they will believe anything, make excuses for anything, even do terrible things if that is the wish of their guru and see it as divine will and not to be questioned by any average accepted morality.
Ashram and cult figures in the area may have questionable and secret motives, and it is easy, in such a spiritually seeking place for them to prey on people.
The group I was in presented itself as beautiful and moral, but as I learnt in time had a darker side, in the night, in secret, which was contrarily immoral and controversial, all which was ultimately about the worship of Kali.
Once upon a time, long long ago, as most people know, there were human sacrifices to Kali, with the phenomenon of thuggery, which was put an end to in the times of the British Raj. Not to say that any of this still goes on, but it does show how people can by mustered to believe and do absolutely anything, and that while gaining the trust of others, anything is possible, including abuse and killings.
SO, to point out here, gravitating to ashrams is not necessarily a redemptive move.
And in a town that supports ashrams and guru's and sometimes psycho baba's, whose strange behaviours may be seen as holy, of which I'm sorry to add, I have also seen firsthand, violence of a mad baba being explained away as the imparting of shakti, then the belief someone gave that this is a holy and safe place where nothing really bad could happen has to be discarded.
Really people, fellow travellers, this unexplained disappearance, which is not the first, must be taken as a cue for others to be wary when they go to the Rishikesh region, and to not blindly trust anyone who poses as spiritually advanced.
My question still is, who was the person Jonathan fasted with in those final days. Was he being groomed to trust those who it would have been more in his interests to avoid?
Apologies for the lack of hope offered here. Idea's and inspirations simply have to be expressed, because in one of them may lie the clues to solve the mystery.
I want to know Jonathan is alive and well as much as anyone else. I wish that from my heart.
But, as I said, so much time has now passed.
One starts to lose hope.
#1683 Jun 9th, 2012, 16:28
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#1683
These last replies are just mean and cruel!
What authority does one have to solve a sharp mystery and say at loud that the guy was eaten, or was sacrificed to Kali?
I hope you find a better ashram to you, my friend from Europe. With your generalizing quote about them, you are just about to say that Gandhi, Aurobindo, Shankar, Rabindranath and meny other one's ashrams were made to worship them. That's very irresponsable!
Of the very many speculations given here, the one that makes more sense is that he guy is doing some spiritual practise and will reappear or is ill and also will reappear.
Saying that he is dead "after all that time" does not make any sense!!!!
There are similar cases in USA, a very different place and believed to be well-organized of people who decided to disappear, and were successful! And in USA there's not this tradition!!!
Remember Abshiktananda... or Sidarta, or ... well, there are so many that it would be waste of time quoting all them here.
Jon is not missing for a long time. It's less than 6 months!!! He will appear soon, I think. It's almost time.
I am saying this here because I know in Germany cases of people who missed for 5 years; and im my family I have one cousin that missed for 6 years and another one who is missing forever, since 1960's.
And I know he lived well and died in honour, no matter where.
PLEASE!! Don't let people lose their hopes. That produces bad karma, or send you to hell (your choice)
He will appear! And someday I will have notices about my uncle, never seen again since 1960's.
Namaskaram.
#1684 Jun 9th, 2012, 17:18
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#1684
Oh gosh, I am not saying that all spiritual places are sinister and corrupt, but some certainly are, and not just in India, but anywhere in the world. And though I may be from the west that doesn't mean I am inferior and have nothing of worth to say. People will always carry hope,and don't need to be blinkered for nothing will prevent that, but neither should other possibilities should not be ignored either. I merely present an idea, and if it was me searching for my loved one I would want to know every possibility. Because its truth that one is after not illusions. Its just one idea, one I woke up to this morning and felt I needed to say, that's all. The future may still turn out to be kinder and I hope so.
Phrases like 'bad karma' and 'you choose to go to hell' are just the manipulative kinds of words used to stop people using their own brains in questioning matters.
I only want to see a good outcome, just like others.
I talk of this because I have experience of Indian ashrams and baba's,teachings etc, and yes some are beneficent, maybe in spite of a lack of perfection that must be in any person or group that claims its divinity, whereas some are quite the contrary and much darker in intent.
I have been attracted and even still am to the spirituality of India.
But I and other people do need to be wary, and that's simply realism.
Its something much posited here that Jonathan may have been on a spiritual trail. And some travellers are very young and in la la butterfly land about the spiritual wonders they see around them, just like I have been. I've seen too much since those days.
So just let it be there, somewhere in the mind, that anything is possible. Lets be free to speak of that which we have experienced and then ultimately somewhere in there something may help in the solving of this mystery.
#1685 Jun 9th, 2012, 20:12
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#1685
Susiewoo

You are brave in expressing your thoughts - many of us have also felt the same but, have not had the courage to express them on a public forum.

All of us, wish that Jonathan be found alive, in whatever condition, so that he may be nourished to good health. None of us want to hear negative news. But, there is something called closure and for that in a negative sense, takes courage and acceptance. Easy for me say, very hard for those close to Jon.

I wish life were kinder to all of us.

Nattusbs
#1686 Jun 12th, 2012, 15:47
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--Bump--
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#1687 Jun 12th, 2012, 16:50
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#1687
Ok, we are talking our minds by the looks of things. I will say what has been on my mind. About the idea of Jonathon being somewhere in a spiritual place, an ashram, with a saint or a swami or whatever. Personally, I can not in a million years accept that WILLINGLY any child would put his parents and family through the pain and fear that these good people must be suffering. No reasonably intelligent and sociable chap like I presume J to be would do that. IF he is sitting safely somewhere at the feet of a baba he would surely KNOW what his parents are going through. Even if he is high on spirituality and something he is smoking he would still know his parents would be in an agony of worry that they haven't heard from him. This has been weighing down my mind for a long time. Now I say it. I fear J has not contacted his family for more serious reason than simply he doesn't want to.
With deepest respect and apologies and sympathy to David and Lynda, who rightly so will never give up hope.
Please, if any moderator feels they want to remove this post from me... feel free to do so.
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#1688 Jun 12th, 2012, 21:30
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#1688
I say keep the faith........

Light a candle, say a prayer and keep positive. It is not for us to caste a shadow in peoples hearts but to send light to them.

Whatever the outcome...keep this thread alive with positivity and if you feel you need to say something maybe a good word would be

Bump

and hit the send button

With respect and kind thoughts to all
#1689 Jun 12th, 2012, 22:43
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#1689
Well - half a dozen foreigners (that we know of) have disappeared in India & without a trace in the past several years.

Although it's nice to keep a positive attitude & say positive/appropriate things .... it's also our responsibility as a community to make sure these disappearances 'without closure' don't become anymore frequent than they have become. This includes warnings/information of the dangers/issues of the territory - when/where appropriate.

The last thing any of us would want is for some aspiring young newbie trekker to think that everything is ok with these current missing people, that they are all on a bit of a spiritual walkabout et al, & therefore that they can head off willynilly to the region without due care or proper street smarts.
#1690 Jun 15th, 2012, 03:51
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#1690
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Originally Posted by Vee21 View Post Ok, we are talking our minds by the looks of things. I will say what has been on my mind. About the idea of Jonathon being somewhere in a spiritual place, an ashram, with a saint or a swami or whatever. Personally, I can not in a million years accept that WILLINGLY any child would put his parents and family through the pain and fear that these good people must be suffering. No reasonably intelligent and sociable chap like I presume J to be would do that. IF he is sitting safely somewhere at the feet of a baba he would surely KNOW what his parents are going through. Even if he is high on spirituality and something he is smoking he would still know his parents would be in an agony of worry that they haven't heard from him. This has been weighing down my mind for a long time. Now I say it. I fear J has not contacted his family for more serious reason than simply he doesn't want to.
With deepest respect and apologies and sympathy to David and Lynda, who rightly so will never give up hope.
Please, if any moderator feels they want to remove this post from me... feel free to do so.
Firstly this is the first time I've read this post and I hope that Jonathon will be found safely. I will be thinking of him and you all in your hunt for him.

Secondly, to call on what was said about no one willingly doing that to their parent. I don't think it's always that simple,not in all cases. I have no reason to think that Jonathon may be suffering from anxiety or anything like that but when people do suffer that, or other mental Heath problems, it can lead them to do odd things. It's not a matter of wanting to hurt people - I think it's almost like being In a different place mentally and acting like a different person.

As I said, there's nothing to suggest his mental health was anything but standard, however I just wanted to state that I think that there are situations where people who mean no harm to anyone else, end up up unable to contact those who they love dearly.
#1691 Jun 15th, 2012, 04:15
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@PeakXV - I am sorry, I have never heard of big back-packs being on any wild animal meal menu (yes - animals might carry their pray far enough but where is the big back-pack in this case? if it was stolen from there why the small one with money and other valuables were left behind?). If J was attacked by an animal there were definitely traces of a fight. There is something we don't know, like - were there any material evidences picked up from the spot where the small bag and other belongings were found?

@Susiewoo - yes, your ideas are very pertinent - maybe not said in the softest way. Why did all those missing persons are still missing? good question! but I presume the first line of thought is that probably police had approached the "spiritual path" and when they have started to investigate the cases in other directions was too late (witnesses memory is very short and sometime confusing so, more time passing, 0 chances to find anything)

@Schimmells - it was someone on this thread who said something like "might J be on Indiamike forum?" - I think was Erica. With apologizes - why are you so steep in what are you saying? are you Jonathan????? if yes, you might think on your parents who are desperate to find you
#1692 Jun 15th, 2012, 04:21
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If Jonathan's body has not been found in the wilds, if he has not been found ill and trying to recover in some nearby location, if he has not authentically been spotted by anyone anywhere, even in an ashram situation, then
Side comment, interesting case awhile back of the the discovery of 2 bodies of female trakkers in Nepal in one case a couple of years later. Closure is worth something in these sad cases..
#1693 Jun 15th, 2012, 04:31
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Originally Posted by edwardseco View Post Side comment, interesting case awhile back of the the discovery of 2 bodies of female trakkers in Nepal in one case a couple of years later. Closure is worth something in these sad cases..
Did you see this on a site somewhere? I only ask as Julian Wynne (the brother of friend of a friend) disappeared in Nepal in December 2008; they've never heard a thing.
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#1694 Jun 15th, 2012, 05:57
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I didn't keep that one. But a new one has just surfaced..
http://www.thehimalayantimes.com/ful...&NewsID=336009
#1695 Jun 15th, 2012, 16:05
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#1695
Very sorry to go through the threads on Jonathan Spollen and Gerard di Cicci.Am sure they must be holed up somewhere in the Himalayas with some sadhus and saints in search of spiritual salvation.Point to be noted is that some of their their belongings have been found and no traces of combat with wild animals have been located.This gives me the impression that they must be holed up somewhere in search of spiritual salvation, and shall return to their families when they feel fulfilled.Will sure take photographs, try to speak with them etc. if I am able to locate and recognise them during my trip.By the way, I have a distant relation of mine too who left home with his wife in search of spiritual salvation........they did come back to inform their near and dear ones later on,and are still in touch with them,and they expressed their desire to live their lives as sadhu-sanyasins and are happy that way even today when they must be very old people.Their relations never came in their path, and allowed them to live their lives the way they wanted.They are now in some ashram in Kerala amd travel the length and breadth of the country,keep their near and dear ones informed about their well-being and where they actually are,and are happy the way they are. By the way, the distant relation of mine was well established and well-placed in service when he and his wife chose to give up normal life and live the life of sadhus-sanyasins.May be Jonathan and Gerard both felt the feeling come from within, and when the desire comes from within, there is no mighty force that can obstruct that path......neither parents nor family, nothing.But at some point of time they must keep their near and dear ones informed of their decision and their well-being so that no agony is caused to them. Judging from what I have gone through in the Jonathan Swollen thread which states that Jonathan parted with his girlfriend,left his job,was suffering from some kidney ailments, and most importantly was of the age when a person is most likely to embrace the life of sadhus/sanyasis etc., it appears to me that his could be a case of trying to attain spiritual salvation when a lot is lost in life, and he may actually have already become a disciple of some group of saints/sadhus.Having travelled in the Garhwal Uttaranchal, I shall vouch that the sadhus/saints are very pure people who have nothing in life except for their bare clothings, but have the mother nature and the Almighty beside them always, and they do take care of each other, irrespective of colour,language,country et al.I still feel Jonathan would be in some ashram, probably in Gangotri or Yamunotri or Kedarnath or Badrinath dueing these days as the plains of Haridwar and Rishikesh are very hot these days and the sadhus/sanyasis move to the upper Himalayas in summer for spiritual salvation.The fact that only one backpack of Jonathan was located while the other could not be found suggests that he, after meeting up with a group of sadhus/sanyasis, would have moved with his other bag after discarding all his material assets, and may have donated his camera (or may be it could have been picked up by some local boy from the site of the backpack later found).
Regarding Gerard, dunno what he was doing in that area during that time of the year when it snows heavily there.Besides he was not of the age or capability to embrace the life of sadhus/sanyasis.

Sure will post any information that I may happen to locate at any point of time, now or in the future.

For the families of Jonathan and Gerard, I must say that they must never give up hope.May be some day when they feel like they have attained salvation, they may contact their families.As I just said, I have a living example in my distant family.

Mod Note: this post has been moved here from a different thread.
Last edited by OceanTragic; Jun 16th, 2012 at 00:41..
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