Nainital-Almora-Kausani-Ranikhet: Requesting suggestions !!!

capt_mahajan

Odd, that. They didn't even know where I was going. But this was a while ago, so dunno what the scene is now.

And you can stay overnight at KMVN Jageshwar, if you want. In fact, may not be a bad idea in any case.

Dilliwala

Hi km,
This is pure BS from KMVN, there are NO circs under which they can legally force anyone to take a guide for anything (unless it's part of a package tour, but that's an entirely different thing). They do not have any kind of jurisdiction in that area; if anything, it wud be the Forest Dept. Was KMVN able to show you any supporting paperwork? I suspect not.
It's a fair point about the trail though - in that case one can just as well hire someone from the village. The Forest Dept can enforce regulations that require the hiring of a registered guide; I'll be surprised if that is the case and KMVN has the only registered ones. Nor does your wife's nationality (also your own ) go against her in this situation - this is neither a Restricted Area nor an Inner Line area. Next time ask them to show you "the law".

kmalik

I see the points made by Dilliwala. And indeed the so called "requirement" might not be on a sound legal footing, and is not enforceable anyway. However, this is exactly what they advised us when we stayed there in December - 07. Not knowing a whole lot about where the trails led, we did comply with it by taking the guide (although it does add to the expense).

For what it is worth, they did tell us a story of someone who had got lost badly and managed to find his way into some village at night - and offer that as the justification of requiring the guide...

Dilliwala

Good point and for similar or same reasons the Forest Dept (and only them!) can enforce such regulations, and in fact do in some of the NPs like Corbett and Nanda Devi BR. But then there are also checks/guards at all entry/exit points (never mind that some people still manage to slip in/out without paying the fees). But as both Capt and you have mentioned, there's no check when coming from Jageshwar, which is what adds to my suspicion and now conviction that KMVN was purveying BS. At a pinch, I'd say it shud have at least been displayed on the boards at the sanctuary entrance at Ayarpani, they've displayed other regs prominently.

kmalik

Dilliwala,

You are right. There did seem to be money motive involved - as the guide fees were not insignificant. That said, they also gave the argument that there was some wildlife around, which was indeed the case as there had been a kill of a cow in the nearby village we went past within the last week and the mountain lion was believed to be around. Apparently, the villager had come to KMVN to claim compensation from the forest dept. And, the guide did seem to be particularly cautious in certain area.

We were, perhaps stupidly, not afraid of the mountain lion (having hiked equally stupidly in the grizzly bear country in Alaska and the Canadian rockies). However, the argument worked on my parents who were accompanying us on the trip (not the trek).

The most significant argument for taking a guide - regardless of which direction you take - is that the way to any specific destination is not terribly clear. We could see the top of Vriddha Jageshwar from Binsar KMVN (as pointed out by someone there), but the way in the mountains is never quite the straightline. One could ask around - and indeed there seem to be people around. But the density isn't terribly high - and you can go for hour or two without running into one.

Finally, as to the point about posting at the entrance - it seemed to me that the whole reserve belonged to the forest dept and KMVN was a tenent who controlled the small (but the best) part they were located on.

Finally, I want to clearly state that we were very happy with the KMVN Binsar staff. Whether money objective was involved or not, they took really good care of us and we had a thoroughly enjoyable visit. I would recommend the place, particularly to those who stay a bit longer and take the time to see the local area, not just the tremendous view from the terrace / zero point.

Dilliwala

Yes, you've mentioned them grizzlies earlier - you guys really love living on the edge, it seems! Probably a leopard though, Hims are not known for even tigers, let alone lions. (Yes, I know - they said "sher aaya tha"!
Leopard, lion, tiger - "ek hi baat hai" )
I wonder what an unarmed guide wud do against a large cat with sharp teeth, though . Run?
(Capt, in which case 4 legs good, 2 legs bad, huh? )

Quote:

Finally, as to the point about posting at the entrance - it seemed to me that the whole reserve belonged to the forest dept and KMVN was a tenent who controlled the small (but the best) part they were located on.

You are right about the Dept. having control of the area, but KMVN might even own the land the hotel stands on. Becos Khali Estate and the village and likely KMVN were already there before it was made a WLS, that's why they can't/won't be removed.
Just to be clear, Ayarpani is the point where the forest check-post/barrier is on the main road (Almora-Bageshwar), where you have to pay the entry fees to the Forest Dept. I meant their boards there, which display other regs.

capt_mahajan

two legs are never good, unless you are Charlize Theron.

kmalik

DW -

Mountain lion is the same thing as a leopard. See cougar. As it states, cougar aka moutain lion aka panther "is also broadly used to refer to the Old World leopard."

As for grizzly, the possibility of an encounter is very much there if you spend any time hiking in Western Canada or Alaska, or even certain areas in the Northwestern US like Yellowstone. So, we've had to consider that possibility and educate ourselve in the proper etiquette in responding to an encounter. A couple of times that has happened and we have been quite lucky that the grizzly read the same book on etiquette as we did

Anyway, that type of experience and lessons do come in handy - and prevent the worst kind of human reaction (of trying to run away). Don't know if the right behavior in responding to the grizzly would have worked against the leopard, but you apply what you know.

BTW, I understood your reference to Ayarpani. My wife liked the shop there

Dilliwala

I'm not Charlize Theron, unfortunately.
But what about Sharapova? Her 2 legs wud be very useful - in running from a leopard.

In other words - "ek hi baat hai" .
But Old World here is really old. Don't want to get all scientific, but our desi leopard (tendua) is panthera pardus. Tigers, lions and jaguars are also from the panthera genus; I'm surprised to learn from your wiki link that cougars/pumas are actually a different genus, puma.
So that wud make leopards and cougars quite distinct. Very, in fact - not even the same sub-family (Pantherinae and Felinae, respectively).
And the snow leopard is not panthera but uncia, and the clouded leopard is neofelis.
Ok, I'll stop now. Basically all big cats.
( I won't mention the genus leopardus [which has nothing to do with leopards]. Or catopuma or pardofelis. Or the leopard cat, which is neither [genus prionailurus]. Or that the bobcat is actually genus lynx. Bored yet? )

Great link here.

One learns something new everyday. Also that there's really no such thing as a panther (anymore), and that black or white panthers are simply leopards or jaguars with an all-over suntan, or bleach.

And that cheetah (different genus/species! - acinonyx jubatus), altho a word of Indian origin (Hindi, via Sanskrit, via Pali and Prakrit), is now clearly and definitely being rampantly misused in this country - they're practically extinct in India and Pakistan. I was shocked to hear a wildlife photographer (Nanda SJB Rana in fact, husband of the "Tiger Princess". Yeah her, from TV) once say that "leopard and cheetah is the same. English and Hindi for the same animal". NOT!!
The Asiatic cheetah used to live in many parts of Asia (didn't know that, thought they were African) but has almost been wiped out due to large-scale hunting . On account of its fur being a status symbol . Only 50-60 survive in Iran, apart from N. Africa.
(Something to think about - there must have been many more in Asia than in Africa once upon a time, for the sub-species to be called Asiatic).

Sorry, I digressed. Back to topic.
(Educational thread this has turned out to be though )

..

I believe the right etiquette is to quickly don a steel collar with long protruding spikes .
Maybe you've seen some Bhotia dogs with them. In their case, the leopards try to go for the neck. I also read somewhere (Aitken?) that 3 dogs can easily take down a leopard, specially when properly outfitted with a.m. collars.

brownboy66

OMG - animal jargon! You've moved from the electronics thread to the trekking thread.....

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Dilliwala

Hey, be thankful I haven't mentioned phylums and orders and suborders....yet!

brownboy66

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