what's a normal price?

BenJay

Dear All

I only arrived three days ago and I'm still in that slightly jetlagged, slightly sick, completely baffled and with not enough reference points to evaluate whether anything is a fair price or not, and still baffled about how to guess who is trustworthy.

I arrived from Delhi this afternoon - it's so hot there now, constantly being hassled for money and feeling like everyone is lying to you - probably a very common story.

I'm getting quoted a price of 370 GBP for a four day trek starting 100km from Sri Nagar plus two more nights on a houseboat, jeep to Leh, borrowing gear and vege food on the trek.

The photos do indeed look wonderful and I don't really have any doubts about the quality of the trek, I'm just concerned about the rate I'm going through money so far and how little control I have over it, as I've got to make it last three months.

Is this a normal price?

A reply ASAP would be extremely helpful.

Thanks

machadinha

I find it very hard to say and have no experience with such treks or anything, but at over 30,000 Rs.* for what doesn't look like that much at all it would strike me as a little steep yes

Hopefully (and probably) others will be in to give you the lowdown, maybe it is realistic, I really can't tell you.

This may be too late for you as you already seem to have gotten into territory where you want to "get going," but normally and certainly given that you seem to have some time, I'd advise to take it easy for a bit until you've had a chance to develop some "feel" for the worth of things, before engaging in activities with the potential to substantially lose out on your financial transactions.

Fellow travelers who must be around where you're at (I'm not clear are you now in Delhi? Srinagar? Other?) will also usually be a good source of information for going rates for various services.

Well, good luck with it, and again I'm sure some others will reply, so wait for more answers to come in. Mind you, if you're on a tight budget and need to make it stretch for a while, some typical tourist activities will naturally just fall out of your league, there's nothing to do about it. But I imagine a simple trek should be available for a lot less.

Another good and general lesson: You need to start thinking in Rupees asap, not in Pounds or whatever your home currency may be. (Although for the occasional splurge or extra activity, if the price seems outrageous for Indian standards and/but provided you can afford it, it may indeed pay to think of what the experience would cost you at home. One needs to know how to value and how to dose this to avoid getting absolutely fleeced though, and spoiling the path for those who'll come after you in doing so.)

For most daily affairs though, it's not just so many pounds, it's so many ff'ing Rupees!

* Having said all that, I guess it works out to around Rs. 5000 a day, pretty much all included. That still wouldn't be my way of going, but I'm quite sure others do, and depending on the class of those houseboats and your food and general treatment on the way and so on, I guess it may be quite fair even. Again, I just find it very hard to say.

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VSK Sharma

Hi,
You are being asked for too much money. First you should spend some time in India and then think of trekking. Best for you is to move to Leh and do some trekking there. For going to Leh from Srinagar catch a State Transport Bus. Once you are used to Leh you can come back and do trekking in Kashmir. In any case it seems that the rates you are being told are for a Luxury trek with all facilities thrown in.
At Leh you can join groups going trekking and that would be a good experience.
All the best

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PeakXV

Sounds like you're prime pickings for a fleecing at the moment - take a deep breath & relax for a few days, get your India sea legs, don't commit to anything yet, browse & ask advice on Indiamike ... and above all stay away from those smooth talking Kashmiri touts at Connaught Place. Or maybe you already dealt with that lot, and as a result, have arrived in Srinagar??? Getting your location and trekking aspirations will help the resident experts here - help plan as frugal a trip as possible!?

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Don't go to India ~ Pre-trip Warnings & Misconceptions?

camelgirl

Good advice already. You don't say when you planned on going to Srinagar and Leh. Now? And what else you have planned for your 3 months.

Your first impressions are quite accurate, which is why you need to slow down & get used to your new & often difficult environment.

Three months is a nice long time. Give yourself some time to get over the jet lag. You should get out of Delhi to somewhere cooler. Any of the hill stations for a week to relax, Mussorri, Shimla, etc.. Srinigar is beautiful--hang out for awhile there, then head to Leh.

Use the Government Tourist Offices--the real one, not the ones that say "Approved Govt. Tourist Office" or something like that. You can get all kinds of excellent information and even arrange inexpensive tours. Take a 1/2 day tour of Delhi.

It gets better & cheaper as you get more used to everything!

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snookie

Just returned from 6 weeks of trekking in uttarakand (gharwal & kumaon ) ..

Here is my experience on the pricing .. I had done all 3 modes of trekking.

These prices do not include transportation costs to get to base camp for the start of the trek. If transportation requires private car/jeep then this significantly adds to cost.

Once on the trekking trail ...

a) Fully self / solo i.e. no guide, no porter, self provisioned: costs were approx. Rs. 400 a day on the trekking trail .. sleep in "dorms" or a bed in the village. Food was prepared in the village tea shop or dhaba. This assumes there are villages along the way.

b) With One Guide cum porter: Approx Rs. 1,000 a DAY (rS. 400 a day for guide /porter plus food for guide/porter). This again assumes there are villages along the way.

c) Fully provisioned with tents incl guide AND porter: Approx. Rs. 2,000 to 2,500 a day. Assuming nothing is available en route.

In general, make arrangements ONCE you get to the closest town to the trekking trail ... doing it in Dehli adds a lot of middlemen and additional costs.

Happy Trekking !!!

singsub

so OP, wont you tell us what you ultimately did...

Mickey S

Give him a chance... he only posted his question 5 hours ago and it's now the middle of the night in India...

BenJay

Dear All

thankyou for all your very sensible advice.

This is basically the decision I had come to as well, to say no for now and just relax and compare prices and decide later, however...

In brief it turned out that the official ITDC office in Delhi, who pressurized me into going to Srinagar and charged my debit card for significantly more than what I agreed to and what the receipt I kept says, also handed me over to an even worse arm of their tourism-mafia ring, who started pressurizing me as soon as I'd arrived, wouldn't even just let me rest and eat first, and gradually escalated the pressure over about 5 hrs to bringing in the cheif of tourism police (or so he said), who took me into his office against my will, threatened to drown me in the lake and remove all traces of me ever having come to kashmir, drove me into the office deliberately much more dangerously than usual to intimidate me more, and continued terrorising me until 10 o clock when i was so exhausted and scared and really felt that he might just mean it that he would kill me that I signed for whatever he put in front of me, which was supposed to be about 150 gbp's worth.

I obviously couldn't sleep at all, and then showered and snook away at first light and made my own way to the airport and then hired my own prepaid jeep taxi from the airport to Leh, which was 9085 Rs, which seems reasonable to me. I insisted very strongly that I would not go back to the tourism office and I did not want to see the tourism police again, and that the driver would take me to the hotel of my choice in Leh not where he wanted and that I would not be forced into buying anything more when I get there.

Fingers crossed, it seems to be going ok now. I'm in Kargil now, halfway to Leh. I'm staying in the govt. tourism bungalow no.1 (recommended in the Rough Guide). It seems good so far, and so far it feels like a retired british raj-era military officer and gentleman's place - and it's also reassuring that since there are (probably senior) army officers staying, there are armed military guards patrolling as well. And as soon as I settled in a large pot of milky English tea arrive which I drank on the veranda with some amazingly English macaroons from the bakery here! Quite comforting compared to yesterday's nightmare...

So when i get to Leh, so far I'm thinking of going to the mid-range guesthouse mentioned in the rough guide that it says is run by a retired army officer - so far from my experience in the tourism office here in Kargil an elderly gentlemanly army officer feels like a safe person.

I've also observed that so far it seems the ordinary poorer people are relatively much more honest and kind than the rich and powerful people.

I'm afraid so far I have been mostly being ripped off on most things and setting bad precedents for people coming after me - I
know and I'm sorry and I'm trying to get back control and then keep the boundary clear from now on that I decide where I go and what I buy and how much I tip.

If I can find somewhere safe and relaxing in Leh, I intend to just hang out and chill for at least a week, maybe up to a month. So far my first week has been almost nothing but stressful and I'm feeling really exhausted, but I'm not going to give up and I'll try to keep an open mind for a good while longer.

I did think of just bailing out and fleeing to Thailand where I know how things work and can more or less speak the language, or just running away back home, but today has been much better. The road from Sri Nagar to Leh is extremely beautiful, and in the last three villages we've stopped in, noone has tried to rip me off - which is the first, second and third time so far for me anyone has not tried to rip me off as much as possible!

The mafia ring I fell victim to in delhi and srinagar also both charged far more than I'd agreed to (second time under threat of death so I don't consider that 'agreed'!), so I've reported it to thomas cook prepaid debit card emergency line and they've stopped that card and transferred the balance to my spare and will dispute the two fraudulent transactions when they clear in a day or two. They also very helpfully agreed to inform the consulate exactly where I am and what kind of problems I've been having (in case I 'disappear' - which felt quite a possibility last night!) and also put me through to my brother.

Yesterday was really really scary but I think I'm ok now. And I will do exactly as you say and try to find somewhere to just chill for at least a week and not make allow myself to be pressured or intimidated into any more big spends.

My recommendation to everybody would be to completely avoid Kashmir - and not give in to pressure from any tour operators to send you here. If you find yourself being pressured to buy anything, just walk out straightaway, don't entertain it for a second minute and don't allow them to put you in the position of a helpless victim, as I did.

Phew...

Thanks and love to you all

Kester

BenJay

This is exactly what I intended to do originally and I'm even more set on it now - not only do the middle men overcharge but as I detailed above they terrorised me into agreeing to their package with threats.

I will ask when I get to the guesthouse I'm thinking of in Leh whether they sell anything other than accomodation and food, and if they do I'll probably go elsewhere.

I'm quite experienced with organising my own mountain treks in Scotland and around the coasts in England, the only thing is I don't have gear with me. It would be nice to have a local guide, but I don't need or particularly want him to carry my gear or treat me like a privileged rich delicate flower.

thanks again
Kester

BenJay

As far as I can be sure of anything at the mo, this really truly was the ITDC who did this.

It said ITDC outside, a stranger took me there, their receipt book said ITDC (which the fake govt. tourist agency which did my taxi tour round the city didn't have - their receipt book said the real name of their company but I didn't notice until too late).

I guess it means you've also got to be careful of the official govt. tourist agencies/ police, as some of them are/ behave like hardcore mafia.

BenJay

PPPS

and on a barely related topic, because I'm not allowed to start a new topic in the 'India for Beginners' section, would one of the mods kindly start a topic there or write a post with something like:

"Guideline Prices in India 2008"

and then list maybe 20 varied reference points, like - average weekly income, normal price of a sack of rice, a can of coke, a rickshaw ride v. approx price per km... etc.

doesn't have to be comprehensive or definitive or anything like that, just some reference points for beginners...

thx

machadinha

Phew. Just a quick word now to try and keep the chin up & consider you've just had the worst of it, Ben. I trust it can only get better from here. Try and relax in Leh yes, and just take it easy for a bit. Those Kashmiri touts (and not just in Kashmir) are infamous for their tricks yes, although it sounds like you sure got the worst of it! Too bad we weren't around to protect you from having to go through this. It sounds pretty extreme, really, I don't envy you a bit.

I (and no doubt others) will drop some more comprehensive thoughts later, don't have the time now. Take it easy, and don't let it put you off of India, or not just yet. It doesn't have to be so bad a place, at all.

ps Spoiling the game for other tourists should be the least of your worries right now, I mean really. Again, I'm very sorry you had to go through all of this at all.

camelgirl

What a horrendous experience! I now feel bad for recommending the ITDC (India Tourism Development Corp.) office to you. I've never heard anything so horrible. I've had fair to excellent experiences for 30 years using the official government tourist offices (really the State Tourist Offices) all over India. Met a few jerks & incompetent people, but generally OK.

Was it any of these tourist offices in Delhi? http://www.tourisminindia.com/indiai...hi/contact.htm I guess I'm hoping is wasn't & that you got screwed by another fake.

I'm hoping that this is some awful aberration and not what things have come to.

Kashmir is infamous for how overbearing and tricky the behavior is towards tourists. Apparently, from your post, you did go directly there but you are now on your way to a better time. It will only get better! We promise!!

Marius

From all that I have read, the Kashmiris can be brutal when it comes to business, but your dealings with them tops the cake! I am going to Ladakh in September, and have been doing extensive research on the area. I think that you will find the Ladakhi people much more trustworthy than the Kashmiri (not that ALL Kashmiri behave so badly, but they do seem to have an overwhelmingly bad reputation). When making plans there, I will try and deal with local Ladakhis, whenever possible. Many of the guesthouses have a "travel desk", where they will help you with arrangements. I have never heard of anyone having any problems with Ladakhi guesthouses trying to "muscle" you around. A majority of them are Buddhist, so it is not their way.

Note to the rest of the IM'ers. This is my first post, so I apologize for not introducing myself beforehand. I've been "lurking" for a while, enjoying the posts. I live in Florida, and am a full-time photographer by trade. I'll be visiting Ladakh and Himachal Pradesh this September and October...and will probably be making more posts with lots of my own questions shortly!