Tapovan and Kedartal in October 2008.

Rajeev Bora · Jul 9th, 2008, 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashutosh69

I am afraid I do not quite agree with this comment. And I do feel incensed enough to request applying logic before passing a loose remark against a populace.

I am not a Garhwali...In fact I come from same part of India as Bongs...and have seen Uttaranchal from very close quarters and have experienced its people in most trying conditions.

Way back in 1999 one was paying out 300/350 bucks to a good guide..may be 150/200 bucks to a porter. Today...after a decade if a qualified Guide charges 700 Whats the big deal? He is the one who actually saves your life at 17000 feet few days later!!

How much of income increase our people have seen in the same period? A porter, who carries your burden thru most difficult of circumstances ..sometimes in life threatening situations!.if he thinks he deserves a 100 rupee increase over a decade...is it too much to ask? These people earn larger part of their living during 5 months of a year....

Quite unfortunate...its like tolerating a cheating autowallah or taxiwallah for 50 bucks in the city and haggling for a Rickshawwallah and calling him names for 3 Rupees...

Yes...if the guide or the porter arent qualified enough....wanting to flow with the rates that other genuine guys ask for...there is a point

Ashutosh you will need to find more reasons to bail out your garhwali brothers. And start applying logic yourself when you comment! The porter and guide rates were just mentioned to let people know what they look like, the rudity seems to run in their blood, if you didnt notice it, aaybe you had your eyes closed but then thats your problem. Sorry, those are just my views from what I observed in a month that I spent there.

ashutosh69 · Jul 9th, 2008, 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rajeev Bora

Ashutosh you will need to find more reasons to bail out your garhwali brothers. And start applying logic yourself when you comment! The porter and guide rates were just mentioned to let people know what they look like, the rudity seems to run in their blood, if you didnt notice it, aaybe you had your eyes closed but then thats your problem. Sorry, those are just my views from what I observed in a month that I spent there.

Rudity is a pretty relative term and can be applied in different contexts... as can be seen

The people being mentioned are surely not my brothers in the strictest lexical sense.

I do not carry the responsibility of bailing out anybody..but surely I shall express my opinion "to let everybody" get an alternative view point so that their views arent colored by a singlular viewpoint... before they get to interact with such people who are going to be helping them through tough trekking situations.

The opinion that I carry comes from over one and a half decade of varied experience in the same region which probably gets into a cumulative total of 20 odd months of walking a couple of thousand kilometers in the very area... Its difficult to believe I would have closed my eyes all these while

Its not that you wouldnt find cheats there... You shall, if you are in a place of religious pilgrimage (where the culture has degenerated like any other place of Hindu pilgrimage) and if the preparation isnt well enough in terms of referances of people from places such as this forum or people who would have gone the same path ...

I certainly shall not pay out free money to someone who wouldnt be capable. But if you get talking to those people who are experienced, do this as a profession and experience them in the deepest of the nooks of the Great Mountains one shall find it difficult to pass a sweeping generic comment... It just isnt fair in my opinion

Anyways, all of us are entitled to our own opinions ...I do respect the fact that you would have gone thru some bad experiences...the learning from which should be slightly different ..Casting aspersion on a people doesnt solve anything except barring one's own mind from visiting these beatiful parts of Himalayas.

Rajeev Bora · Jul 9th, 2008, 16:46

Look, I do not want to waste my time arguing with you, but I think y comments are totally fair and based on mine and the experiences of several others who were touring the area at the time I was. I havent barred my mind from visiting any place just because of the nature of people you encounter there but just be prepared to deal with the situation....which in this case was the degenerated nature of folks who I met...all that mattered in their life was greed for money..they thought all the folks visiting the area were sitting ducks at their mercy and they could do whatever they wanted..
If someone would plead with e to give the a little ore, I would go all out and spare whatever I could. The filth these people had in their mind was really deplorable.. I wish there were some regulations in place to keep a check on such circumstances!

ashutosh69 · Jul 9th, 2008, 17:00

cool.. Rajeev we have discussed enough. learning for people who are planning is, take guides with referance.. if not anything else take help of GMVN fellas.. they usually have a list. if the guide is good he can arrange for a bunch of decent porters. in places like gangotri any tom dick and harry claims to be a guide to tapovan and kedar taal. the first time i went there in 2000 the guide actually vanished after bhojwasa.

ever since i have identified a known bunch of people who are experienced, technically skilled and have done the area before. you dont mind paying them what they deserve and u are sure of your objective and above all safety.

somnath · Jul 10th, 2008, 01:45

Ani, welcome back. What about your experience? Hope it was good

.
Thanks for the Neel tal (or it is Neela tal) info (Bhaswaran, cheers). Your observation is right – well, not only first timers but also other members including myself would love to have a break at Tapovan. And it is ONLY possible if we are able to do Tapovan to Gangotri on 11th Oct. Hmmmm….. yeah you are right, Babu also did the same.

Now let me come to the 2nd part. Ani, Kedartal planning is good but I am convinced that we should avoid night stay at Kedar tal due to its altitude. It not only for the first timers – considering every member. Actually, we don’t want to take any chance. But if everything goes well then yes, definitely we can change our plan accordingly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ani rch

..... after all treking is not a painstaking activity only we do so much to see and feel the place. ....

True …. and I think we are not keeping one or two days to ‘enjoy’ the place. But again….. time … inadequate holidays and there are so many places / things to see.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashutosh69

..... i have identified a known bunch of people who are experienced, technically skilled and have done the area before......

Ashutosh, could you please share the contact info? May be a PM or another post here in this thread?

Dilliwala · Jul 10th, 2008, 02:45

somnath and urvashi,

Read this:
http://www.indiamike.com/india/trekk...53/#post510554
I recommend you call CWW Dehradun to find out if you can apply for and receive permission thru the post.

Avidbhai,
The Himalayan Club beaten by a non-trekker by 2 weeks?!! Tsk, tsk, standards are slipping!

somnath · Jul 10th, 2008, 12:22

Dilliwala, thanks for your help. Yeah I am reading that thread

. One of our team members is following up with this. As per the latest info we are waiting for the reply from higher authorities.
What is this “beaten by a non-trekker by 2 weeks” ?

BTW, I guess 1 or 2 posts were there in this thread – deleted?

proy_india1 · Jul 10th, 2008, 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by travel joy

We went for Kedartal last year without any permissions or permits.Even Tapovan was done without any such formalities.I don't know whether the scenario has changed this year.
Hope any recent trekker can clarify.

Hi I am Prasenjit I am also Prog.Traking Keder tal This yeay oct.08.So Can u help Me provideing ph # Of Any decent porters or Guide.

Bhaswaran · Jul 10th, 2008, 15:50

Hi Prasenjit,

Welcome to Indiamike

AvidTrekker · Jul 10th, 2008, 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by somnath

What is this “beaten by a non-trekker by 2 weeks” ?

He (Dilliwala) posted the info 14 days before Himalayan Club

But he is "a potential trekker" because he wants to come for a trek.

So a non trekker has not beaten the HC

.
.

Dilliwala · Jul 10th, 2008, 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by AvidTrekker

He (Dilliwala) posted the info 14 days before Himalayan Club

But he is "a potential trekker" because he wants to come for a trek.

So a non trekker has not beaten the HC

.
.

1. WANTS?!!

I am being regularly threatened by some Mumbaiwalas to take me trekking against my will, in exchange for some measly route info I may have given. I fear that their persistence will win in the end, against my will of course. (I hear though that Kalindi Khal is nice on a clear day

)

2. Potential = probable, in the future, no achievements under belt, etc
Non = zero, shunya, no achievements under belt

I.e., until potential is fulfilled, 'non' is correct. QED.
HC is still beaten.

AvidTrekker · Jul 11th, 2008, 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dilliwala

1. WANTS?!!

I am being regularly threatened by some Mumbaiwalas to take me trekking against my will, in exchange for some measly route info I may have given. I fear that their persistence will win in the end, against my will of course.

Is that a hint?

Quote:

(I hear though that Kalindi Khal is nice on a clear day

)

For a potential first time trekker you really are very very ambitious. (chose one of the top ten "difficult treks on the Planet")

Quote:

2. Potential = probable, in the future, no achievements under belt, etc
Non = zero, shunya, no achievements under belt

I.e., until potential is fulfilled, 'non' is correct. QED.
HC is still beaten.

I am now threatening you.... will ensure that HC is not beaten by a "non". (is that a noun? or a prefix? or both?)

Dilliwala · Jul 11th, 2008, 01:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by AvidTrekker

Is that a hint?

For a potential first time trekker you really are very very ambitious. (chose one of the top ten "difficult treks on the Planet")

Potential shmotential - smileys are significant. I picked it (only metaphorically) becos I specifically remember you writing that it's the last trek in India that counts as one before one hits the really big-time - full-fledged mountaineering expeditions.
Any chance they'll make a road there?

I'll prefer that any day.

Quote:

I am now threatening you.... will ensure that HC is not beaten by a "non". (is that a noun? or a prefix? or both?)

I believe it's a non-noun.

somnath · Jul 15th, 2008, 02:05

OK. You carry on guys. Plz don’t stop

. Dilliwala and Mumbaiwala is fighting but rest of the world is getting the benefit…… come oooooon.

Dilliwala · Jul 15th, 2008, 02:32

Me, fight with Avid? Tauba! tauba! tauba!
I have to pick his brain for many years yet!

Jul 10th, 2008, 15:50	#39
Bhaswaran Landscape Photographer Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Kolkata. INDIA bhaswaran@redifmail.com Posts: 957	Hi Prasenjit, Welcome to Indiamike __________________ ....life is a journey.....and the journey is more important than the destination........ http://www.indiamike.com/photopost/s...0/ppuser/15496 Darjeeling trip Video : "Darjeeling - The Queen of Hills" DVD

Jul 15th, 2008, 02:05	#44
somnath Maha Guru Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Calcutta Posts: 2,358	ha ha ha..... OK. You carry on guys. Plz don’t stop . Dilliwala and Mumbaiwala is fighting but rest of the world is getting the benefit…… come oooooon.

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Jul 9th, 2008, 16:46	#33
Rajeev Bora Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 34	Look, I do not want to waste my time arguing with you, but I think y comments are totally fair and based on mine and the experiences of several others who were touring the area at the time I was. I havent barred my mind from visiting any place just because of the nature of people you encounter there but just be prepared to deal with the situation....which in this case was the degenerated nature of folks who I met...all that mattered in their life was greed for money..they thought all the folks visiting the area were sitting ducks at their mercy and they could do whatever they wanted.. If someone would plead with e to give the a little ore, I would go all out and spare whatever I could. The filth these people had in their mind was really deplorable.. I wish there were some regulations in place to keep a check on such circumstances!

Jul 9th, 2008, 17:00	#34
ashutosh69 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Delhi Posts: 121	cool.. Rajeev we have discussed enough. learning for people who are planning is, take guides with referance.. if not anything else take help of GMVN fellas.. they usually have a list. if the guide is good he can arrange for a bunch of decent porters. in places like gangotri any tom dick and harry claims to be a guide to tapovan and kedar taal. the first time i went there in 2000 the guide actually vanished after bhojwasa. ever since i have identified a known bunch of people who are experienced, technically skilled and have done the area before. you dont mind paying them what they deserve and u are sure of your objective and above all safety.

Jul 10th, 2008, 02:45	#36
Dilliwala Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Dilli Posts: 3,243	somnath and urvashi, Read this: http://www.indiamike.com/india/trekk...53/#post510554 I recommend you call CWW Dehradun to find out if you can apply for and receive permission thru the post. Avidbhai, The Himalayan Club beaten by a non-trekker by 2 weeks?!! Tsk, tsk, standards are slipping!

Jul 10th, 2008, 12:22	#37
somnath Maha Guru Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Calcutta Posts: 2,358	Dilliwala, thanks for your help. Yeah I am reading that thread . One of our team members is following up with this. As per the latest info we are waiting for the reply from higher authorities. What is this “beaten by a non-trekker by 2 weeks” ? BTW, I guess 1 or 2 posts were there in this thread – deleted?

Jul 15th, 2008, 02:32	#45
Dilliwala Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Dilli Posts: 3,243	Me, fight with Avid? Tauba! tauba! tauba! I have to pick his brain for many years yet!

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