Spiti to Leh trek : Information wanted

sidred22

hi,
I am planning to do some trekking in late sept or oct and Spiti to Ladhak sounds intersting. If anyone could provide me the details of the route, I shall be very grateful.
thks

Larsuld

I replied to your question in a different thread first, here is a copy, now that I noticed you made a new thread.

Kibber-Tso Moriri
has some info and links. As you can see from that thread, I wanted to go last year, but we never made it further north than Kaza so i can't advise much on the route. Late september or early october is definitely at the end of the season, but I think it should be possible without it turning into a real mountaineering feat, if the weather is good. If the weather is not good then crossing the Parang La could be both difficult and dangeours as far as I understand. in 2007 3 people died there in a blizzard. That's not to scare you away, just to say - don't go unprepared. I would do a bit of research if I was to embark in october.

If you need a contact in Kaza I know a very good travel agent who might be able to give further details. I might be able to find some digital maps that I made by cutting and pasting from google maps last year. I'm not sure whether I hav ethem, but i can take a look. Let me know if you need any of that. The american military maps in the thread I linked to above are not bad - the people we showed them to in Kaza were impressed even though they are more than 50 years old. But finding the route is quite easy and doesn't require much of a map AFTER the Parang La at least AFAIK.

AND I just realized I actually have most of the links I collected last year prior to departure online at my website. http://12357.dk/spiti it has route descriptions from different sources, including some of the smart people here at indiamike. I put them together for comparison because they varied slightly in their itineary suggestions etc.
A very small part of it is in Danish but most is English.
Some of the google maps are not there, but Iwill look for them now.

good luck! Looking forward to seeing your graphic account. I remember the one you posted about your trek from Manali-Leh in 10 days! :-)

Best wishes
Lars

Per

You need an innerline permit for Rupshu which is a subdivision of Ladakh, not sure if you can get it in Spiti which is a subdivision of Himachal.

There are two passes, Takling La and Parang La. No settlements after Kibar or Kiato. You have to be self sufficient to Karzok wiht food and shelter. From Karzok you can catch a jeep to Leh.

We did it to over Takling La some years ago, photo album here http://www.lowdin.nu/Treks/Tsomoriri/TaklingLa98.html

It is also possible to continue by foot, to Hemis.

Larsuld

You have a nice website, Per, I went through all the treks you posted there last year. :-)

Per

Thanks, by the way, I should clarify myself: there are two pases on different routes to Karzok, one just has to cross one, either Takling La if one starts from Kiato or Parang La if one starts from Kibar.

Can add that the main difficulty is the altitude, especially Parang La is very high, and possibly snow that may make progress difficult. And, once across the watershed there is no easy way down and out. In this respect it is better to from Karzok to Spiti, from north to south rather than from south to north.

sidred22

hi,
THks for your prompt reply once again.I did Darcha to Wanla trek in Sept last year and I wish to thank you for your very valuable advice.
Regarding this trek, I wish to know as to how much time does it take from Kaza to Tso moriri incl supply situation enroute and beyond Tso moriri is there a trekking route through Markha valley trek or we have to go to Leh and start afresh.
thks

Per

It takes five days from Karzok, Tso Moriri, to Kaza, for a fit and well acclimatised party. It can most probably be done faster than that by locals. For people acclimatised to sea level I doubt that it can be done safely in less than ten days.

There are a lots of option to hike west from Tso Moriri, to Sarchu via Pankpo La, to Tso Kar via Yalung Nyau La
and Telakung La. One can head for Pang and the Upper Khurna Basin (“Karnak”) via Yar La and on to Markha via Zalung Karpo La and to Hemis via Khonmaru La or Spituk via Ganda La. There is also another pass to Nimaling, Lalung La. Lots of options, most are suitable for pack animals.

Larsuld

I didn't find the map I'd cut and pasted from Googlemaps last year. I had a harddrive crash some time ago so it was probably lost then. Maybe I can get it from a friend if he still has it. But my conclusion last year was that the nicest maps available freely are the google maps.

Here is Kibber/Kibar - the starting point if you want to cross the Parang La
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...211&t=p&z =12

If instead you choose the Takling La that Per mentions I am not sure if Kibber is also the starting point (from the Spiti side).

This portion of the old U.S. map shows the route from Parang La to Karzok. (Just a low res copy I made for overview purposes.)


Dutung (on the map) to the north of the Parang La is on the map, the Parang La is not named. Dutung is where the paths from Takling La (from the West) and Parang La meet.

I don't know anything about the other route but i think Per is a real expert here, he's been all over Ladakh and Spiti. By the way I agree in Per's assessment of how long it will (should) take if you're not already acclimatised.

I hope to come back in some years and do the trek my self.

Did you post about your Zanskar trek, Sidred? I've got to check that out.

Best wishes
Lars

Per

To cross via Takling La one does not start from Kibar. Instead one starts from Kiato, a village some 20 km or so upstream from Kaza in the main valley. http://www.maplandia.com/india/himac...d-spiti/kiato/

Takling La is at the end of the valley that comes down a little bit east of Kiato.

Takling La is lower, some 5200+ wheras Parang La is more than 5500. We intended to do Parang La, and recruited a man from Karzok with a horse. He claimed Takling La was better for the horse. So we wound up doing Takling La. On the crest the horse freaked out in the snow so we chose to send them back, as we did not want to be responsible for the horse breaking its legs in the lose snown.

Takling La is also on the U502 map next sheet, but the map has very low reliability, does not show properly that there is long valley paralell to the Spiti valley from Dutung. We stayed the night in Dutung and spent the beter part of the next day hiking along the valley floor to the foot of Takling La. It is a very high valley, I guess a good bit higher than 4500 m.

sidred22

hi,
thks for the info. I am far more clearer except for the logistics part. SInce I travel without any porter or ponies, this becomes critical by the end of second day and more so on third day specially when you have to ascend. Kindly inform me what can I expect specially towards the Sept - OCt , when the season ends or is about to end.
And yes I have posted a thread of my Darcha-Lamayru trek on India mike and I can be searched by the typing the same letters.
thks

Per

Starting from Spiti you will spend the first days climbing. You will have to camp. On the map Lars posted is a camp ground Jeigthag just under Parang La.

Parang La and Takling La are just north of the Great Himalayan Range, although there is considerably less precipitation in Spiti than on the south side it is far from rain shadow. That means snow can fall any time in September. It may be rather cold all the way to the Indus valley, sub-zero at night, and most of the locals in Rupshu may be on their way to lower elevations. Between Kibar and the Indus you will be consistently above 4000 metres. If there is a spell of clear weather it will just be cold and crisp. If there is a snow storm it might be living hell.

Larsuld

As Per wrote above, there are no villages and no supplies between the Parang La and Karzok. I'm not sure if there is a small hamlet or two above Kibber before the Parang La. But you should probably count on bringing supplies for 10 days. That's what I would do because even if you end up doing it in less, it's better to be prepared for whatever obstacles there might be. It's quite likely that you would be all alone on the route.

Last year a very experienced local guide/travel operator in Kaza (Lotey is the name of the good man) told me and my friend that if one was 1) very strong and in good shape, 2) acclimatised and 3) didn't need to carry anything (had ponies) it would be feasible to go from Kibber to Karzok in 5-6 days. Obvisouly this was also depending on good weather. However, even though I know (from your Manali-Leh trek) you have the stamina and is strong/in very good shape, I would advise you to bring supplies for the normal itineary and not only the reduced one.

While the trek isn't supposed to be very technical it does involve crossing a glacier on the way down from the Parang La, and wading across the river at Norbu sumdo (which will probably be VERY cold at that time of year). It might not be necessary but I would bring crampons for the glacier part at that time of year, especially if I had to go there alone. As the route descriptions are not that clear from the books I'd also spend some time discussing the route with locals in Kibber/Kaza before starting.

But again, if it were me, I'd have liked to do it with a companion, and if I didn't have one, I would probably hire a guide.

I'll see if I can find your Orkut photos later today!

best wishes
Lars

Per

Crampons are useless, without rope, ice-axe, and other gear which you also need if you need crampons. Besides your problem is more likely to be too much snow, that you have to kick up your trail in deep snow. The only piece of climbing gear that might be useful is an ice-axe to feel for crevasses, if there are any. Hiking on a snow covered glacier with large crevasses is one of the most dangerous things one can do as one cannot see the crevasses, the innocous looking snow can suddenly turn out to be a collapsing snow bridge.

As for Norbu Sumdo Lars is right on. We forded it in late August, it was fast, some 40-80 cm deep, with stones rumling along the bottom. Not fun at all. You cross it in broad valley, so you would probably not die if the stream caught you but you would get dreadfully cold and wet.

I support that strongly. There are no settlements at all between Parang La and Karzok. It is much better to have a partner, not least to split the weight of necessary gear such as stove and tent. It is also a good idea to have sufficient food to be able to camp an extra night if the nala is in spate at Norbu Sumdo. Then, it is likely to recede during the night and be easy to ford in the morning. Unless you are going with locals and beasts of burden I would recommend a fording rope. We never trek in Ladakh without one.

voyager61

Hi! I have seen people doing the trek at the beginning of October,and it has already been said that if the weather stays good all the way,there should be no problem in completing it,actually besides the cold(it starts freezing in Kaza at the beginning of October) it is probably an easier time to ford the streams,water levels should definitely be much lower. But if the weather turns nasty then you have a problem and if you are alone you could find yourself in a dangerous situation. Two years back 3 bengali trekkers died near Parang la when they were caught in a storm,around the 11th of October. Last year there was a major snowfall in Spiti,Lahaul and Ladakh on 19 September,and a trekking party that had left Kibber in splendid weather had to rush back and fortunately they had not crossed the pass yet. And anyway it can snow anytime of the year up there,years back there was a snowfall in Kaza on the 8th of June,and last summer snow fell almost every day on one or the other mountain top.

Per

Concerning fords it is not really that bad. When we went we only forded once on the Karzok side, at Norbu Sumdo.

However, coming down to Kiato, there were some really fast fords. Just 500 metres or so from the road head the river has to be crossed three or four times. When we came down late in the afternoon, it was fast and nasty, all silt, so we camped, and went early the next morning, belaying with a rope. We both had small dips.