Short Trek for High Altitude

vistet

I don´t know about that ... I could think of one or two forums where people would offer suggestions on what brands of umbrellas would be preferable, or the tensile strength of the fabric in them. In fact I have to confess to participating myself in discussions like this.

The disadvantage of sites like these is that there is less repeat postings (except from the guys selling umbrellas) , which means drawing from less experience. The repeat experiences of posters here is also the reason why emotions will surge : anyone who has had a close brush with severe AMS is not likely to treat the subject in an academic matter , since they know the stakes involved. I can also understand the issues of having your basic presumptions questioned in a public board , which is why I try to go outside and count reindeers for a while when I disagree too much with a posting.My first reaction to coca (which is used by Andean indians ) was that it was a tragic misconception , but there is a rationale : cocaine improves blood circulation in the brain .. which is why cocaine snorters often die from brain hemorrhage. Maybe not a good idea after all.

Diamox (which is a conventional drug) works by acidifying the blood, which allows you to breathe deeper. Normally breathing is not regulated by oxygen levels , but by the acidity levels. This is why there is no gradual response at first to moving upwards : you need to reach a sufficiently low oxygen saturation for the oxygen response to kick in.

It also works as a diuretic, which means higher water intake .. with moderation. You´ll often (less frequently here ) hear a high fluid input mentioned as a cure-all for AMS , which is a misconception : you need to monitor your intake as mild nausea can lead to dehydration headache. At the same time a high urine output is how the body initially raises hemoglobin concentration. I favor the approach mentioned by Avid in another thread : learn to monitor the color of your urine , which should be thinner than normally. All headaches at altitude I consider as AMS related , after pushing a liter of fluid without any effect.

returning to the last question , there is little to be added to Bhaswaran´s reply , you will hit 5000 early on the Manali-Leh run , with the same caveats : you really need a night in Keylong before contemplating sleeping higher than that.

You can go up to the Rothang La (3900-ish) after having spent the night in Manali without spending the night up there, you can go really fast up to that altitude without oxygen provided you jump out of the plane (check out umbrellas at our online store if you don´t believe in parachutes)- this is what skydivers do, and you can traverse but not stay around 5000 after a couple of night at Leh´s altitude - but any substantial delay at these altitudes will still mean danger ( see Avid´s comment on the jawans) .

All in all , for such a a short period of time there is probably a lot more fun to be had doing a mini-trek at a lower elevation , without being bogged down by the logistics of acclimatisation. I found Kinnaur delightful.

Bhaswaran

Very good and detailed information. This will be useful for all trekkers.

tacita

we are very fortunate to have a number of highly experienced trekkers on this site, especially vistet and avidtrekker, among others.

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Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing. ~Helen Keller

AvidTrekker

Namaste Raju...

I agree to your 45000 US$ fee to "do" Everest. Shall we do it the day after tomorrow??



Please send me some reindeers. Or maybe only Rudolph with a huge gift sock. I have only cars rushing outside my house. It may make things worse...

We are really blessed with lovely and beautiful thickly forested mountains. Even the trek across Jalori pass [10200 feet] is simply gorgeous with every campsite a must stay for two days at least.

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The Universe is an ellipsoid?... or a Spheroid?? If the sphere smiles... it becomes an ellipse. This IS Creation.

Nick-H

Yep... Fascinating stuff.

And I'm unlikely to set foot higher than our roof !

(well, ok... Nilgiris, Western Ghats; but that's hardly mountains compared to you Himalayas guys)

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Just one member of the IndiaMike Mod Team

kmalik

Vistet - On behalf of Royal Nepalese Commission for Prevention of Unfair Pricing (RNCPUP), we need to ascertain the reason for the low low price of $45000. Please advise which of the following explanation best supports your quote:

• Helicopter evacuation not anticipated as it would not have arrived too late anyway.
• Pankah wallahs would address the oxygen content problem.
• Coca tea would have prevented the altitude sickness? If so, please advise if you planned to use homeopathic or Columbian variety.
• You were offering one-way service only.

We await your response

marshaltit

dear AvidTrekker coca is a homeopathic medicine and not banned in any way.diamox is also a good allopathic medicine but from my experience i can say coca is more effective.

Nick-H

coca is not a homoeopathic medicine, and I am willing to believe that it is an illegal substance in india.

A homoeopathic solution of coca could not possibly be illegal, as a homoeopathic (WOW! my spell check can spell homoeopathic! Which is more than I can!) solution of anything contains no physical trace of the substance.

Right.

That's that one sorted.

Now... what's the highest I can get in a comfortable half-hour drive from Chennai? St Thomas Mount?

jyotipg

I know people who have used revital for better effect during trekking.

Diamox just suppreses the symptoms which helps you know about possible AMS in earlier stage. So, should be better avaoided.

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capt_mahajan

Prasham, seems to me that some experienced folk are giving pretty good advice here, cant hurt to hear it again even if you know it already.

unfortunately, or fortunately, indiamike does not work like a straight question and answer session; which makes it more interesting.

AndreasW

Homoeopathic COCA - "The mountaineer's remedy" is obtainable in India...

I took every year few doses Coca 6c during acclimatizing with success! Drank a lot of fresh himalayan water... Never I used DIAMOX and such "things"...

Did my first high altitude trek in Bolivia and I learned to appreciate Coca tea there.

Try it - of course with all other recommended precautions!!! It's cheap and without side effects.

vistet

Firstly, I feel that medication should be used with caution, after consulting your doc. One of the first reactions from a good doc will be to make sure that medication is not seen as a way of pushing safety limits.And there are contra indications (most importantly having reacted to sulfa drugs) and side effects to be considered, something which can only decided in a real life medical consultation.

Having said that , Diamox does not hide any symtoms. As you start to hyperventilate after having reached a sufficiently low oxygen saturation the blood will become more alkaline, which acts as a brake on respiration. Restoring acid balance with Diamox allows you to hyperventilate again , which means higher oxygen saturation.

Nothing is masked : you are hyperventilating, which is the desired response to lower oxygen saturation , and you are feeling better at the same time as you have a better oxygen saturation.

In the words of the specialists in the field :

If you feel well on Diamox , you are well. If you don´t feel well you need to stop or go down, with or without Diamox . I think this where Diamox (acetazolamide) has got a bad reputation , from people assuming they could ignore their symptoms because of their medication.

travel joy

Hi all,
This is one of the most enjoyable threads I have come across.Starting with one query it moved around getting sarcastic,funny and then very informative indeed.Thanks a lot all of you guys..
One thing I am sure of is that COCA (not to be confused with cocaine) is a homoeopathic medicine indeed.It doesn't have side affects, and it is definitely not banned.A dosage of 30 strength is used by a lot of mountain travellers in India.But still I have seen people suffering from headaches in Tapovan even after taking COCA. So nothing better than controlling the rate of ascent in a trek.

Crickneck

Hi,my apologies for cutting in (rudely!)among you, obviously awesome tekkers. I haven't gone beyond 12,500 ft myself. I have a question: what is the effect of mild alcohol intake beyond 10,000 ft and say upto EBC level?

Bhaswaran

Homeopathic medicines come in different strengths, just like their allopathic counterparts.

COCA 30 will be the mildest, then COCA 200, there is COCA 6X also. I read in magazines that in high altitude trekking, COCA 6X is useful. They advise it to be started two days earlier at your home before the commencement of the journey, actually may be 3-4 days before the start of the trek.

I dont know if it is related to cocaine or not. But it is definitely not banned in India. Just today morning I checked it in a homeopathic medicine shop. It is available.

Even if it is related to cocaine, it might be a derivative or in a very small portion that is helpful for medicinal use. Even snake venoms, in very small portions or derivatives, are used as life saving drugs in cardiac diseases, besides creating their own antidote. So, taking COCA does not mean you are taking cocaine. The medicine shop cannot tell about cocaine but told that it has no side effects. Well, I will check it out with my homeopathic doctor when I meet him next time.