Saife or Koteshwar I

tok

Ok. So, sitting at home it's easy to be brave, but we can't let go of the dream of reaching 6000m this summer

So, anybody have experience with either Saife or Koteshwar I peaks in Utt?

We have no experience of this type of "mounteneering".
But according to the guide books, these are "easy" to reach and envolve snow plodding.

SO if we are aiming for this, can guides be aquired in Gangtori´?

Has anybody done these and can share? You guys must be dreaming of high peaks as well, maybe these are feasable? Imagine 6000 meters !!!!

We are both well fit (marathon runners), with excellent gear, but will restrict our independent trekking without guide to easy, no-snow( or less snow), areas, to keep i safe. We are however (as in the avatar) quite used to surviving in the snow

Thoughts?

Cheers,
ToK

P.S. We will be bringing down sl bags, mounteneering tent, maps, altimiter and som on. So gear -less glacial equip. is essentialy compleate.

mountaingirl

Hi!

In India, you can not just go and climb a peak - only 04 peaks are 'available' for such climbing.

You need a permit and clearance from Indian Mountaineering Foundation

Illegal climbing especially in Uttaranchal will create problems for you and you might even be jailed for being a spy!

tok

OK! Now that is what I call a useful tip!

Reading up on it, it seems that all peaks are off limits.
(Which 4 CAN you climb without a permit?)

Found one gang who did it. They never made the Saife peak, but the opposing one they did!

http://www.dreamroutes.org/dreams/ganesh_mt_thelu.html

Is it possible for an agent to fix necessary permits in Gangtori, or are we being too optimistik?

The customs in Sweden are very different, here, everything in nature is compleately available, if you dare. It's up to you, and you never need permits for anything. It's actually stated by law that "every man has a right" to enjoy nature as he pleases, assuming he does not disturb anybody else

Well, we will have to read a bit more. Thank you mountaingirl for keeping us out of trouble. (Your advice is invaluable as always) We DEFINATELY don't want to break any laws! We have a great deal of respekt for local customs, or at least, try to find out what they are, so we don't offend anyone.

Thanks again.

mountaingirl

Hej!
When you deal with IMF - you are dealing with the bureaucracy! I don't think they have ANY idea about the mountain climbing or hiking etc!

It takes atleast 6 months to get a clearance. also involves a lot of money - probably the reason why we don't see so many expeditions anymore.

You have to apply yourself or through an agent (delhi based) to get this permit. Your best bet is to join some foreign team climbing - they would have probably secured a permit. They can always change a name or two in their list. When are you coming to India? Try Stok Kangri - between 15 June to 15 september.

tok

June4th-end of august

Don't think we will be heading upp north though. I guess we will have to look at the peaks from the "hills". He he, lots of stuff sround to go scrambeling on, so 5000 should be no problem without running into trouble with law, or , even worse.... mother nature.

No expedition plans, we lack the experience. We will however check up on courses in Darjeeling. Perhaps come back again next may and take a course, then head off to do more advanced trekking. This year, and the summer months is just for getting the feel for the mountains at minimal risk, and, not costing an arma and a leg. We are still students

Perhaps the summer of 2006, we can arrange something, but we try not to rush into anything, this seems to only make you rush inte trouble

kaushiks

mg, is it illegal for Indians to climb peaks also. More importantly, how bad is it if I defy the rules. My guess, it won't be all that bad for Indians. They might just question me or detain me a little or something.

tok

Seems it's better to be indian!
http://www.indmount.org/imf_instr_ie.html

Says nothing of the 5 YEAR prison threat that looms over any foreigner climbing a mound in India!

We also stand a hefty fine, in dollars, plus mosty likely some other nastiness if we go prodding off.

Guess we'll have to leave the exploring to the locals

Oh, well. Well be at the bottom to greet you with tea when you come down .

Good luck and merry mountineering!

kaushiks

I think there might be a clause here. It might be legal for you to go very near the peak without touching it. Don't give up. Pack your stoves, just in case .

tok

Oh u bet!

We will be fully equipped with stove, mountineering tent, down bas, fleece, windjackets, snowpants, and all the rest.

Just in case ....

He he. We will be up high, camping in the snow anyway.

himalayaputra

Hi Tok,

Greetings from uttaranchal Himalayas !!

For some treks of more than 5000mtrs ( upto 5500mtrs) you dont require any permissions.

kamalove

I like the permission system in Russia: if you are enough expirienced to climb the mountain (there is a special graduating system), you may be registered in the rescue service, and they will attend to your climbing. If not, you may climb at your own risk, or hire guides. There is no special permit needed (like in Sweden too, I think:-)
We have ofcourse conservation areas, where any activity is prohibited. You may not buy permit there. But most of mountains are out of that areas, including highest point of Russia - Elbrus mountain, 5642m.

himadventures

I do agree with mountaingirl -but as basic question was saife peak -here is what I want to say..

1. Saife is not a free peak. Even if they declare this-setting foot on it requires mountaineering experience.

2. You have to have a very good guide to climb this peak-role of guide is not only to walk on front but help you when things go 'off way'

3. You can try this peak without permit-only thing is that you should not be climbing with other teams as they had paid heavy amount to Indian Govt.

OPTION: Better climb STOK KANGRI or trekking peaks in Himachal Pradesh like:
Friendship,Ladakhi,Shitidhar although they are not as high as 6000m but you will learn climbing in Himalayas which altogether fifferent than climbing anywhere in the world.

Climbing though IMF is certainly not practcial with dposits of those heavy amounts-and they do nothing except giving you papar of permissions.
There is rescue support and there is no any update of information of any type. It is just like youland up in THAILAND and hire a local girl for communication and....( As everything is in THAI )

tok

After another month of reading up on the subject we will sonfine ourselves to more moderate trekks. We will try to reach high points, but we will not take any chances with authority or health. Hopefully we will reach some snow around Milam glacier and perhaps Roop Kund, but we will not be traversing Saife. We will instead use this summer to get to know the mountains and perhaps make a legal attempt next year. Thanks for all the info

krk

Well the IMF rules are a bit vague. What I hear is that permits are not usually required for peaks below 6000m, but I'm not sure if this holds good for foreigners.
I must say that upstream of gaumukh, the landscape is pretty lunar. On the raktavarn/svetavarn glacier, hiking is quite tiring and difficult because it involves days of walking on terminal moraine which ,putting it politely, _sucks_. And the final stretch to Thelu (which we did around 9am in the morning, slightly late), was literally a river of stones.

A nicer option would be to do treks like Kalindi and Rudugaira (passes) .Since they do not involve summitting, they do not come under the ambit of IMF.

kaushaldesai

hi tok

why u only looking at Uttaranchal ... suggest u look at Himachal free trekking peaks are Shitidhar, Friendship both 5250 mts some amazing ice climbing also possible in the area ......another area is the Dev tibba area where there are similar trekking peaks and a fantstic area to do some exploration... can achieve high points upto 5000 mts ..

also if 6000 mtrs is ur aim look at stok kangri give me a shout if u want more info ....also can run the trip for u if you want.

cheers
kaushal