Mt Everest legend's final ascent.......

Dilliwala

Well, this cud well be true. We just will never know.

Tenzing never learnt to read and write, bb, I guess u mean the "co-authoring" with James Ramsey Ullman. His son Jamling did write a semi-autobiographical book though, 'Touching my Father's Soul'.
(From wiki) In the former, Tenzing says, "If it is a shame to be the second man on Mount Everest, then I will have to live with this shame."
I suppose this shud put speculation at rest.
I guess the controversy might be becos the photos on top all show Tenzing, which Hillary explains as Tenzing not knowing how to operate the camera. In 1953, entirely plausible.

My one major beef though re the ascent is with the Brits.
(From wiki again) - "Returning to Kathmandu a few days later, they discovered that Hillary was made a KBE, and Hunt a Knight Bachelor for their efforts."

So Hunt gets knighted, and eventually baroned, for not climbing Everest, and all Tenzing got for climbing it was a lousy medal. Typical - "he's only an illiterate sherpa, don't you know, old chap!"

Alohaguy

It is indeed a silly discussion and not worth spending time on. Bringing it up at this time is just plain shameful and small minded.

Nick-H

One supposes that attitudes have changed in 50+ years, and I guess we have to accept that they may not, then, have been as we would want them to be now.

Come to think of it, now, it'd probably be the major corporate that sponsored the event that got its names in the headlines !

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Aishah

And on the climbing gear - parkas, beanies, t-shirts - ice axes as well too, Nick!
Thanks Dilliwalla for your extra bits of info - all interesting and handy to know! You have a mind like an encyclopedia so don't worry if you miss the odd fact or two! Having lived here for a while I now have to go and check my spelling...(that old memory again!) Also, 'gone where no one's gone before' from Sir E.H. -now often in common use, bit like men on the moon isn't it?
Aotearoa - 'land of the long white cloud' indeed - but also I recollect we often used to call it God's Own Country too, which was why I was surprised when I found Kerala is called this way as well.

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"Life can only be understood backwards, but it must be lived forwards."

BabeInTheWoods

Thank you for your thoughts, Dilliwala, you're very kind.

Yes, we're all fond of 'Sir Ed' over here in Aotearoa. He was a great 'Kiwi Bloke' and accomplished some wonderful things, especially for the people of Nepal. He had a long life - a 'great innings' and I'm sure God will be very glad to have him back, having lent him to us for so long.

Blessings to Sir Ed and to his family.

BITW

'You can tell more about a man by what he says about others, than you can by what others say about him.'

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brownboy66

Mallory's gandson in Sydney has come out with a statement....

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/...tid=1048 6581

nicely said Dilli.

yeah.....symptomatic of a time that is, hopefully, long past.

thank you alohaguy. Usually I would ignore this sort of thing - but not with this, and not this time. Had to reply just once - but no more.



as general information - the state funeral is scheduled for January 22nd. The reason for the timing is to allow family members to return from overseas - (Peter Hillary is still travelling home) and to allow Sir Ed to lie in state in Aklnd for about a week, and give people time to pay their respects in person. The various NZ missions around the world will have a condolence book (as is the case in New Delhi) - the intention being, so I understand, that the books will eventually be sent back to NZ to the Hillary family. The books are available to anyone who wants to sign them and leave a comment.

julesa

wouldn't the reason have been that Tenzing, a Nepalese if i'm not mistaken, was ineligible for knighthood on account of his nationality not being a part of the British Empire (later Commonwealth)?

Hillary, on the other hand, was a Kiwi and member of the Empire.

Aishah

Could be a good possibility, Julesa.(Post 37) Interesting link from Herald, bb.

brownboy66

geez...you think that link is interesting, try this....

http://www.whitepages.co.nz/Pages/Se...&Search=Submit

I didn't believe it when I read it on a forum in NZ, but yes - he was such an ordinary bloke he insisted on keeping his number in the phone book just like everyone else (apparently he would get calls from school kids - although usually around tea time as it turned out).

Aishah

You see, he had nothing to worry about - unlike politicians here with their vanguard of security agents, police etc. Mr K couldn't believe it when I told him Prime Ministers in Oz or NZ, go shopping like normal people without a lot of bodyguards. (Might have changed in the last few years since I've been here, but that what was it was like before I came.)

Nick-H

It might indeed have changed; it certainly has in UK.

Dilliwala

One example: Sunil Gavaskar received a knighthood long ago (1980s). Had he been Aussie, Kiwi, Canadian or "similar" nationality he wud have been Sir Sunil Gavaskar. He is barred by virtue of Indian citizenship to add any honorifics/titles to his name, but not to receive any associated honours from other countries.
Same case with Tenzing (or cud have been). I just feel he shud have been treated the same, that's all. There cud have been "corrective action" in later years, but that may not have been in the scheme of things.
I'm not trying to stoke another fire here, I'm a bit disenamoured of titles/honorifics in general, just saying what I've felt for a while.
To clarify: The medal I mentioned was the George Medal, also given by QE2.

Purely for info: Tenzing became an Indian citizen at some point (60s I think), and was so at the time of his death. So are his kids, at least those that didn't acquire other nationalities later (Jamling mentions at least two, I think, in his book). While in the Himalayan regions the concept of allegiance to a particular state, and therefore citizenship/nationality, is a relatively recent, sometimes problematic, concept (a good example being where the same peoples acquired Indian or Chinese nationality in 1962, depending on where they were physically when the border was closed) - it wud be technically correct to say that Tenzing was a citizen of Nepal by virtue of birth. That's why he was more fluent in Nepali than Tibetan, which is what his ancestry clearly was.

EDIT: From the BBC link - it turns out that Tenzing waved an Indian flag along with others. He was already living in Darjeeling for a while at the time, so I guess that was his reason.
Here's the BBC's original story from 1953 - quite interesting.
"Mr Hillary took several photographs of the scenery and of Sherpa Tenzing waving flags representing Britain, Nepal, the United Nations and India."

But WHOAAA! No New Zealand flag??????!!!
Another travesty.

Dilliwala

What about the second number though? What chance it's "Peter Edmund" and "Yvonne M"? (google zindabad! )

U know what's been really annoying in the last 2 days with google? Every time u search for "Hillary", there are at least as many, if not more, hits for that Clinton woman!

Aishah,
You're forgetting Devbhumi Uttaranchal (now Devbhumi Uttarakhand of course).
And Devbhumi Himachal.


(For those who don't know, Devbhumi means 'Land of the Gods')

brownboy66

British expedition.........

PS - Do you sleep at all (posted at 1.42am, edited at 4.53am)? or are you just a really slow typist! No wait - I know - its all that googling into who was living where, what nationality they were at the time, what address they had, what their phone number was (who the other phone number belonged to ), whether or not there was a BBC interview of it, and can it be copied into the post! and you call me a nerd.....

capt_mahajan

Tread softly, and don't upset her. She seems to be weeping her way into the Presidency.

Back OT, it was nice to read his wife plans to continue his excellent work in Nepal.

And poignant to read that his first wife and daughter died in a plane crash there.