MISSING Czech botanist in Ladakh - more info

machadinha

A note on those hotel forms: Some foreigners get a little crazy of having to fill them in all the time, so they may enter something like "John Doe -- concert pianist." The owner should technically ask to see your passport and copy its number and your details from there, but they don't always do, or they may find it hard to read (as noted above, this may be more strictly observed in Ladakh though, to keep an eye on trekkers and because of the nearby border).

I'm not trying to discourage you, but this can be a complication.

Best of luck with your search. Is there anyone in his wider surroundings who can manage to go over there? I think it would be by far the best option to have someone go make enquiries in person.

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tichym

There is no problem of somebody going to Leh (after getting visa)and spending there few weeks. The pragmatic question is whether in makes sense to have a person(s) speaking only English to make searh in Ladakh in December. Maybe it does?

machadinha

I assume most visitors there speak only English, maybe not as their first language, but at least not Ladakhi. I've never been to that region, but my guess would be they'd be well accustomed to English-speaking foreigners. You could look into hiring a translator/guide on the ground if needed and to increase your chances (good idea really).

If you can send someone there, do so, by all means. That is not to say making enquiries here like you're doing now doesn't make sense btw.

Again, best of luck with it. Maybe others can advise on whether it's better to go through your embassy if you send someone, or if it's better not to. I imagine it could help you in getting the proper contacts with the local authorities; or it may just unnecessarily complicate things. Indian bureaucracy is tricky and they generally don't like to feel that foreigners are meddling with them, so maybe it's best to just go and enquire in person and not go through the official channels. I'm not sure what to advise on this one. Individual officials can be most helpful if they want to btw. I think I'd just go and make my own enquiries with the police etc., but others will have the better advice here. There's no harm in at least asking your embassy about it though, or to keep in touch with them for backup.

My guess is the local tourist business won't like to see foreigners disappearing there, so I imagine they'd try to help you. Or they may be evasive because of it. Or they may just want to be helpful, period.

nayan

If he was to go to nubra valley he would definitely need permit.The permit is issued from district collectors(as far as I remember)office in Leh.
So there you have one more lead
it would definitely help if your embassy can help you in getting some media coverage. the police may then try to be more pro-active.

machadinha

That's another great tip by Nayan, keep it coming.

I guess having both official pressure and someone making personal enquiries unofficially on the ground would be a good combination.

I'm not trying to pretend to know what to do here, as I don't. However another thought that struck me is that in India, it's customary to answer "yes" or give some other affirmative answer, even if you don't know. It's just a cultural trait to consider it rude to say "no" or "I don't know" to someone. This can make it hard to ask for directions for instance, to give a very simple example.

I imagine in a search like this this could be another complication, especially when enquiring with non-official people on the ground. Again, don't let this discourage you, but keep it in the back of your mind. Not every answer will be an answer, so you'll need some patience to decipher it all (I think. The Ladakhis are a breed of their own though, I hear, I'm not sure if it works the same way here.)

VSK Sharma

Hi,
I went through the entire thread and I think one has to move step by step if the person has to be traced.
(a)First the Forigners registration office at Delhi need to be contacted with the details of the person and his passport and his VISA validity and type of VISA he had for this trip.
(b) then find for sure that he moved to Leh and not to any other place. He could have moved by Air and so the few Airlines who fly to Leh need to be contacted on thier web site. Other wise if he moved from Manali by road the the plice check post where forigners have to register at Sarchu if I am correct. If it is confirmed he had reached Leh then again contact the collector's office to confirm he was given permit to visit Nubra valley which is for 7 day max.
One may request Mr Motup of Rimo Expeditions for help.
One thing is for sure he can not be in Nubra now where the tourists are allowed upto Hunder.
If he has moved to some other unrestricted area then its a different story.
What ever you want to do it fast.
VSK

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nayan

I would agree with Mach and VSK that you need to do things fast. This incidence is from august and it is already november. the trail must have gone cold by now. Most hotels/guesthouses/tour agencies/shops will be closed for winter by now. Most of the ladakhis go back to their villages during the winters. the non ladakhis(from the tourist trade)mostly move to Goa.

The people associated with tourist trade/law enforcement in ladakh can speak very good english. So donot hesitate on that count.
try to get some family/friend to come to India as quickly as possible. the person has to have both tact and perseverence.

capt_mahajan

Agree with nayan and others.

My sense, is, too, that many places will be closing down for the winter.

What I would do is

-get somebody there asap (with fliers bearing photograph, contact no. and promise of reward), send fliers to villages along with whoever is going there.

-find out what the cops know and what they suspect.

-start retracing his footsteps.

-involve embassy

-involve media if possible.

The main negatives (to repeat what others have said) are that he has been missing for 3 months, and winter is here.

tichym

Thanks again for all the advice. Even things that may seem obvious to you are new to me (Like the fact that most people in Leh will not speak Hindi). Probably I should stop writing and start doing something. But I will be still reading :-)

At the moment we are stuck at Leos arrival to Leh. We know that he made it sefely to Delhi, where he had three hours to get to the domestic airport. However, we do not know whether he checked in for his flight to Leh. The fligt was on Aug 7, with Jet Airlines, flight number 609. The Czech representative of Jet Airlines would apparently only talk to police (I have not talk to tham personally yet - I will). If you know another way how to find out, please try.
I can send a copy of his ticket(Mr. Leos Klimes) by e-mail. You can write me to tichym at alga.cz

capt_mahajan

Tichym, the following are contradictory. (from your earlier posts)



The obvious first step:

It should be a simple matter to get his embassy involved to check with Jet (or the Airports authority) whether he boarded the flight from Delhi.

Or even without the embassy. Airlines people can be very helpful if approached directly.. simple question, was so and so on the flight?

Surely the cops wouldve asked that question.

From what you say, it seems to me that he may be missing in Delhi and not Ladakh.

Sama

I've emailed an IM member who I know is in Ladakh right now, maybe she has heard something....

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tichym

The police says that no permit was issued to Leos Klimes. So it probably was not the Nubra valley (If he made it to Leh) I will talk to Jet Airlines tomorrow and will try to contact Mr Motup of Rimo Expeditions as suggested.

machadinha

<cross-posting with several other posts>

An extremely generalized observation that I made before, then deleted because of it: In my experience (others may well disagree) the Himalayan and/or Buddhist peoples elsewhere can be very friendly and helpful and gregarious on the one hand, yet are very good at hiding their true thoughts and feelings on the other hand. Again, it's a vast over-generalization that I don't really like to make, but it's another of those cultural traits you may have to deal with in this particular area.

Yes, winter and the tourist season closing down and so on will be further complications. The person going should also be aware of issues in Ladakh regarding the cold and AMS (Acute Mountain Sickness). You will find information on this in this site's Ladakh and Trekking forums; note the "stickies" there (threads "stuck" on top of those forums), which should be helpful in this respect. And get a good guidebook for the area, by all means. Tomorrow!

ps I don't know about Hindi there, I assume some would speak it. But I wouldn't expect it to be very common (I may be wrong.) And yes, if someone I know went missing I'd expect to be able to call the airline if they were on plane X (?) Or at least to have personnel not be indifferent to it and help me further, if they can't answer directly.

tichym

You are rigt, the word Apparently is misleading here. Seemingly would be better. We do not know is best

PeakXV

Check this thread on the Nubra Valley here, the posters appear to be still active and it discusses the necessity of obtaining/applying an inner line permit and guides/maps from J&K tourist office and the possible need to travel in a group of 4 to that region. You may well be able to narrow down the search by determining if he tackled any of these procedures ..... or not!

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