Another partisan impressions of Tamil Nadu

davyd

I found in one old thread very interesting words about Tamil Nadu from Digital Drifter. You can find it at:
All about TamilNadu; A partisan look!
Later discussion was held on linguistic topics and is of not big interest to me. However I would like to post some comments on original letter.

Digital Drifter: All about TamilNadu; A partisan look!

This is about my state Tamil Nadu[1], the one & only hold-out against
the national integration idea that everyone speak Hindi! The State
that repeatedly launches into threats of seceding from the Union of
India.

Commentary - sounds strange for people who are the most conservative and traditional Indians to threat of seceding! Lungi is very much in fashion for men, sari for women, hinduism observations are fervently fulfilled everywhere.

Food in Tamil Nadu is pretty much safer than up in the North though
I'm quite unqualified to make that statement. Idli, vadai, Dosai,
chutney & sambar are the staple in any hotel(throw in pongal too,
available in the mornings, generally). If you suspect something,
stick to freshly,steamed idlis(rice cakes, is the closest description
I can come to it). That's freshly steamed. Now is the best time to
whack all the packed sugar tubes from airlines and resturants and
carry them with you. Not a good idea to trust the hotel sugar; not
that it's ersatz or adulterated, just my tip(to understand this,
ask for sugar when you get the idlis, you'll see the point). Idlis
are the safest to eat, if you don't trust any food out there but it's
bland, hence the sugar. When you order a plate, there're usually to 2
to a plate.
Dosai or crepes?(how does one get a grave accent on this keyboard?)
are the next standard fare and you get a variety of them (onion,
masala, rava, butter, paper(yep, thin as a sheet of paper), plain).
Chaps down south don't quite know how to make North Indian dishes
well, as the others on this forum will vouch, so give them the go by;
This advice should not stop you from having them if you really crave them.
Meals down South consists of a three course one; Sambar, Rasam and
curd(buttermilk) rice with an assortment of vegetable curries with an
fried Appalam(popudums,as it's called in the UK). You're either
served in steel plates or on a plantain leaf, so it's a dicey thing if
you want to attack the food with knife & fork. A banana leaf does not
offer much resistance to a spoon much less the knife. Tipping is
optional but recommended. Asking the waiter what they have ready now,
is also a good idea, in case you're in a hurry.

Commentary: This is good explanation of Tamil food so Tamil kitchen is not everyone's lunch. I found it very difficult to travel in Tamil Nadu because of lack good restaurants and food. Thali - I can eat only meagre carrots plus a bit of rice and one pappadam - I leave the dining table hungry. I cannot eat liquid spicy Sambar and Rasam (there is nothing to eat inside), curd is usually has no fat, untasty and conspiciously old. From other ingredients of thali I could eat coconut puree but I have allergy for coconut milk. What else, spinach - first this is grass, not food, and locally prepared of bad taste.
OK, you would say - eat something else if you cannot digest meals. No other food available at lunchtime I can say in many places of Tamil Nadu except Mamallapuram, Chennai and Pondicherry. Only meals. Take Thanjavur - I could not find even dosas at local restaurants at lunchtime - I walked down all this central East Main Rd, mistakenly mentioned in Lonely Planet as Gandhiji Rd (locals do not this name). Dosas, I really like dosas - not in Tamil Nadu or Karnataka but in Delhi or Jaipur, where dosas are really tasty and crispy with good mashed potato mix. Vadai are not possible to digest who are on anticholesterine diet - they are very greasy and I just don't like their taste. Overall on my personal opinion Tamil kitchen is of peculiar taste and of low nutrition, no comparison to North Indian or Western. Tamil restaurants are simply non existant. No culture of North Indian dhabas where it's possible to spend hours watching people. All these Saravanas have grubby too quick service - what do you need, this is not available, that also, only meals, pay and go. Coffee - it's not real coffee. Chai is not real chai.

Digital Drifter:
Tamil Nadu during the rains or after is the best time to visit.
Tirunelveli is particularly beautiful during the monsoons being in the
rain shadow. So is Tanjore. Summer can be ferociously hot and
sweaty. Madras, truth be told, is NOT representative of Tamil Nadu.
Madras is edgy, sarcastic and a little competitive. On health,
literacy and state stats, Tamil Nadu scores well with the odd bout of
caste clashes, female infanticide and the government refusal to look
at the AIDS issue. People are better informed & educated and speak
English a whole lot better than up North, in my not so humble opinion.
(I just cant resist taking digs at people, randomly). Of course, the
odds are that you will talk to someone who will leave you rolling with
laughter.

Commentary:
These statements are totally questionable (except first a-la guidebook words). English is no better spoken than in the North India especially comparing to all Himalayan states, where children are fluent in English since 3 years old when they go to school. If people in Tamil Nadu were better educated or informed they would not return corrupt politicians (like many previous chief ministers) and ineffectual megastars like MGR to power each time.

And last - Tamil Nadu is the first state in India I visited where most people are looking gloomy, they just never smile.

However, despite its obvious shotcomings in tourism (poor service and quality of rooms in many medium range and budget hotels, lack of quality restaurants) there are good sides of travel in Tamil Nadu - some decent or half decent places to stay, good roads and good transport system.
Temples are awesome, people and sceneries are mostly beautiful, only towns, with exception of Pondicherry, are very congested and dirty.

sirensongs

Thanks for this, Davyd. I would have to add:
-Sugar with idlis? GROSS.

-Dosa are traditionally a breakfast food ("tiffin item") so in lots of places, you can't get them after 11am or so. I know, a pain. They are much better than most of the "meals." North Indian curd is also better, creamier and richer.

-Tamils take themselves extreeeeeeeeeeeeeemely seriously. that's why they never smile, as you noted. They are so proud, they are above smiling.

-I believe there are other states, or at least parts of other states (Bodoland in Assam, other places in the Northeast, Telengana in Andhra, and formerly part of the Punjab) which have secessionist notions;

-you are right on about the East Main Road in Tanjavur.

-I too was bewildered at the blinding efficiency "cum" rudeness of the Meals Hotels vs. the dhaba culture. Eat and run!
But I love real South Indian coffee. Saravana Bhavan in Madras does it best, and can make it strong if you ask.

In case you're wondering, Madras was the first place I landed in India, and I spent an aggregate year in Tamil Nadu (mostly Madras and Pondy), in addition to socializing with lots of Tamils in my American temple which was dominated by Tamils. That's what my observations are based on.

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davyd

thank you, Sirenesongs for kindly sharing my inner thoughts that i expressed here. For Tamils on site - No offence was meant, just curiousity and astonishment. By many parameters Tamil Nadu is unique and no doubt interesting state, worthwile for exploration, but for casual tourists there are many obstacles. One of them (indirect) is oppressive tax policy I presume. Second thing - government tourist organizations could launch training courses for hoteliers and restaurateurs or send some tourist workers to successful North Indian states to learn about their experience. I think it would definitely help to promote tourism in Tamil Nadu.

sirensongs

Ahem, Tamils cannot possibly learn anything from North Indians. They have a great, ancient culture and are just fine on their own without any northern interference! even if it means success and progress! how dare you suggest otherwise!
at least, that is the projected response to your (otherwise reasonable) proposal above.

Nick-H

For casual tourists there are many obstacles

You make it sound like a really difficult place to visit!

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sirensongs

I wouldn't agree that there were literally "many obstacles," just that Tamil Nadu has done very little to make itself amenable to visitors, which results in both a lack of conveniences and a preservation of a less adulterated way of life. That is, they have made few concessions to tourists so in a way it's more "authentic" though less convenient. I rather like that about it. Everywhere can't be Kathmandu (wow, the amenities there are amazing because tourism is so central to the economy).

bijapuri

FOR ME . . . .
TN has the best live temples. One of the best road and rail networks. Some of the best food. Reasonable prices. Always "warm" weather. Friendly to me, dunno about others. English widely understood in rural areas. Internet everywhere. Flowers in women's well-oiled hair what's not to like?

With all sincerity, if one finds TN not to their liking, vive la diference- the rest of india awaits you. Example: I wouldn't give 2 paisa for most of the mountain spots of the north. Vive le diference!

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Digital Drifter

*sniff*

Bij,

You've made my year! :-)

The next dosa at Brindavan Hotel is on me. Please tell me when & where we can meet. Either in Indiranagar or MG Road.

PM if you'd like to

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davyd

How I dared to advice training in the North? Very simply. Even today I read in newspapers self congratulatory article about boom of tourism and hotel industry in Tamil Nadu and Chennai in particular. However only management of Taj Coromandel was interviewed that is not representative of tourism industry - I am sure ordinary tourists do not stay in this hotel or other 5 stars which exist servicing business travellers.

It means that Tamil tourist industry and tourist authorities simply have lack of self knowledge, they don't know anything about development in other states. This has no any relevance to Tamil nationalism if only tourist industry was not infected by shauvinism. It should not be infected.

Otherwise some people seduced by ads like Enchanting Tamil Nadu will visit state once and never again. But long term aim of any state with good initial conditions for tourism (pleasant climate most of the year, lively temples, beautiful scenery) will desintegrate without returning visitors - there are not so many tourists in the world interested in India to compete for them with other parts of India.

Why I say that touristic infrastructure of Tamil Nadu in shambles? I almost didn't see new hotels. Existing ones charge higher rates for nothing. In many places staff is very eager for tips or look like they would be happy somewhere else. In one hotel in Kumbakonam I was told to give tips for all 3 men who was present in the lobby. When I asked for what, they did not have an answer. They used to sit and chat in lobby all days with breaks for food and sleep.

Budget hotels are pretty dire and dingy with dirty walls, linen, endless corridors with musty smell. Some of them may refuse to accept foreigners because they were not accustommed to them. Some may accept like one in Trichy if foreigner can produce photocopies of his passport pages and visa - they do not make copies so tourists should have them in hand.

Absolutely everywhere (I don't know only about top-end hotels) visitors are not trusted and asked to make front payment, for how many days they would like to stay. For example room rent is 200-300Rs however at least 500Rs deposit is asked. If tourist doesn't know how many days he would stay he may asked to vacate his room on his last paid day - his room possibly booked by others. I was asked to vacate my room after 2 days at 8 o'clock in the morning in one hotel in Pondicherry because I did not pay in advance. Manager just said - your room is booked, please vacate it before 9, we have to clean it.

In internet cafes around the state connection is very poor or light goes out very often. In the North for no-service nobody charge money, in Tamil Nadu everybody does. Even for cold drinks - almost everywhere special extras for freezing are in place (I don't know is it legal to sell something above Maximum Retail Price). In another restaurant in hotel Park Plaza in Madurai I was just given wrong change by 10 Rs - I assume it was made deliberately because some visitors do not give tip, so it was charged tip in advance. And many many cases of this kind small cheating (beginning with autorickshaws and taxi drivers), overall spoiling good impression of the state and its people.

About food and lack of quality food and restaurants I said earlier.

Of course most people do not notice all this just because they did not venture towards North India, they did not visit many cities and hotels and cannot compare.

beebah

Many of the negative aspects you list against the name of Tmil Nadu could jsut as easily be levelled against Northern states too.

My experience of India, up until a week or so ago, was only of north India and I've only visited Bangalore and Chennai on this very short break from my studies. BUT I reckon S. Indian food is very tasty!
I had to say something in defence of Tamil food after the delicious stuff I've been eating over the last few days. It felt really nice going to a fancy restaurant eating meal and leaving VERY satsified with the range of flavours and quantities! I've just had the "meal" at Karaikudi in Chennai for example - 50 rupees or so and very tasty - salty sweet sour savoury. lots of interesting tastes and textures. the restaurant itself is ac and very nice looking too.

Food is a very subjective topic so I understand not everyone will agree with me!

Nick-H

Davyd, each to their own, and nobody will force you to like TN, but you seem to have built up a number of, mostly small, quibbles...

What difference if the hotel asks for a deposit? I'm sure it hurts you less than the hotel got hurt by non-payers.

You talk as if TN is going to disapear if it doesn't gear itself up to tourism. As Sirensongs and Bij have said, the fact that TN is geared to ordinary Indian life is one of its attractions to many.

It may not be approaching tourism with the same intensity and success of Kerala (and when you dismiss Southern tourism, please remember this very sucessful state) but then it doesn't have quite the same concentration of natural beauty that Kerala has.

phantom

Temples you say ?? Those are not temples, those are money making showrooms of god. Only in south have I seen, different queues based on how much gate money you are paying. This is utterly ridiculous. I went to Meenakshi temple in Madurai last week and was filled with convulsion on seeing it happen there too. I have seen it in Tirupati earlier.. i mean.. they have made it a real business out here.

davyd

I don't know Kerala, I am going today there. I am anticipating high prices, hawkers, overpriced hotels but hope Keralans will not be so gloomy as Tamils that I seen. Tamils seem are not ready to help each other, eveready to make obstacles on each other's way and have very divisive society with discrimination of low castes or even subdivision within low castes. Scenes of casual discriminations disturbed me most.
I did not say anything that TN is going to disappear. It will be alive very much, with or without tourists.
Deposits are asked only by Karnataka or TN hotels and seedy places in Paharganj in New Delhi to my knowledge. It says many many things in itself. I have no information about non-payers in North Indian hotels. Wherever I went in North India I was stunned by friendly and easy going people, especially in tourist industry. That's not happened in Karnataka or TN.
TN is geared to ordinary Indian life? From this forum I thought all Tamils are dreaming of secession from North India.

bijapuri

well, Davyd . . . sounds like TN is not for you, and others ADORE the place.
so live and let live, Brother!!!

Auntyji

Bijapuri, for your kind words on TN, this Tamilian says, "romba tanks!!!"

To each his own; every state has something to offer and Tamil Nadu may not be everyone's cup of tea.