Is enlightenment an illusion?

http://www.aypsite.com/283.html

a question has been raised in various threads in this forum about whether or not enlightenment is possible or even "real". I used to get updates from the AYP website and have recently gone back to reading it. The above link is the author's view on the subject -- you can judge for yourself.

personally, I've found his website very informative insofar as pranayama and the esoteric yoga practices. You can also download his e-books.

as Yogani says, the guru is in you.

There is no comprehensive definition of 'enlightenment, therefore the question will be left to the individual to decide

Rightfully so

This is why I am often so flippant on the subject of 'enlightenment'. It can't be quantified nor subjected to review by peers.

It's all you

by Van Morrison--


Chop that wood
Carry water
What's the sound of one hand clapping
Enlightenment, don't know what it is

Every second, every minute
It keeps changing to something different
Enlightenment, don't know what it is
Enlightenment, don't know what it is
It says it's non attachment
Non attachment. non attachment

I'm in the here and now, and I'm meditating
And still I'm suffering but that's my problem
Enlightenment, don't know what it is

Wake up

Enlightenment says the world is nothing
Nothing but a dream, everything's an illusion
And nothing is real

Good or bad baby
You can change it anyway you want
You can rearrange it
Enlightenment, don't know what it is
Chop that wood
And carry water
What's the sound of one hand clapping
Enlightenment, don't know what it is

All around baby. you can see
You're making your own reality. everyday because
Enlightenment, don't know what it is

Enlightenment. don't know what it is
It's up to you
Enlightenment. don't know what it is
It's up to you everyday
Enlightenment, don't know what it is
It's always up to you
Enlightenment, don't know what it is

and that's why the guru is in YOU

the operative phrase in Van the Man's song is "wake up"

I think I said it in a few threads by now. To me enlightment is something you cannot measure or prove. There have been many gurus in India who claimed faked enlightment that I am kind of skeptical by now. Even if they were enlightened at some point in their lives, after enlightment they prove themselves to preach what exactly enlightment is not about: greediness and egocentric behavior.

Personally, if there is a notion of enlightment then it is impossible that only in Eastern religions you can find enlightened people, but not in the West. If there is a correlation between enlightment and doing good to the society, then many people in the Western as well as in the Eastern cultures have been and are enlightened.

Religion is a way to control the mass of people. Each religion has a belief, western religions control the mass by imposing the 10 commandments. and the eastern religions control the mass by meditation. To me meditation, which is a way of thinking of your actions and clearing up the soul is equivalent to the Sunday confession to the priest in the Western religion.

You can argue religion so much, but what it comes down to is similar rules to control the mass from doing harm to others.

Yoga and meditation is a way of life to be a good person, to keep your body healthy and not to do any harm to others. To live your life as a good person.

Confessions and following the 10 commandments is similar to the Eastern yoga and meditation. But of course Eastern religion is more philosophical and more sophisticated that Western religion, one might say. But how can I think that if I never read the Bible, nor have I ever studied my own religion enough?

we look at the East because we are more exposed to Religion when we go to India, than we are exposed to religion in our own country.
In our own country, we think religion is not something cool, but all of the sudden religion in India becomes very cool.
Religion is religion everywhere we go, we just think that enlightment in the Eastern world is much cooler than following our own religion.

sure...3 hours of enlightenment for 2 easy payments of $9.99. free shipping and handling..tune in to my infomercial at 11:30pm GMT.

for some people everything needs to be measured, caliberated and sold in kilograms or litres or something..why?..

how i can prove to you if i am enlightened? what is it you require?..maybe we look at certain folks to say maybe they were..maharishi, chandrashekara saraswati, ramanuja, aurobindo?

i am happy that i am on the path atleast. hope to achieve sometime before i die...if not so be it..but the path itself is amazing. ...acquisition of knowledge, control over emotions, detachments from crazy needs and wants..a yogic way of living...

different states in meditation, cross this human world, go to the nether regions..eyes closed, all noise blanked out, my energy focused on going higher in my brain levels.. i am so refreshed every time i do this. yes i am on the path...and no enlightenment is not illusion atleast in this path.

http://www.aypsite.com/260.html

food for thought.

"Enlightened gurus make mistakes. As long as we expect perfection from the enlightened, the transmission of knowledge from them will be retarded, and that helps no one. There is a divine paradox here. By recognizing the earthly imperfections of enlightened ones we can gain the most from them, because we are neither defending them or being repelled by them."

When you stop worrying about it, you've got it.

and when ya know ya know....

you are on the right path greenchutney...

it is sanatana dharma in india and i hope you research what that means. please understand the difference between western organized religions and eastern ways of living. your caliberations of it being cool, uber cool, lukewarm and/or hot is only you and the fad followers who are the minority. there are many others who seek out in their personal journey.

hmmm....when did anyone say that there are no enlightened people in the west and the west was short of philosphers?

control the masses? yeah we have a pope of meditation. he issues fatwas through hidden electrical waves....here plug into this socket in your lotus pose please

no..you sort it out yourself in meditation

please name me one enlightened westerner, not of Indian origins.
that is according to the Hinduism religion.

what you think are misconceptions some other people might think are not. just because you see it one way it doesn't mean it is right. I am not saying I am right in my sayings. I am only posting my oppinions that's all.

passingby and greenchutney, both your posts have been edited to remove any reference to picking fights on other forums. all the mods here are aware of what has gone on in another forum recently, so let's keep any fights out of this forum, especially in a discussion on enlightenment! it serves no purpose.

we all can agree to disagree, but let's keep out any nastiness or negative energy. your cooperation is appreciated!

thanks moderator.

hinduism is not a religion. if you refer to it as sanatana dharma, you will understand what it is. there were/are many dharmas in the land.

annie besant is my opinion was one such person. again enlightnment is not something definable and is through personal connections, journey whatever you want to call it. she was a learned person, a theologian, a philospher. maybe she was enlightened..maybe she was not. another one is mother teresa..maybe she was enlightened through her service or what not. she was an albanian if i am not wrong..

eitherways i dont think sanatana dharma or eastern ways of living have trademark over the word enlightenment or the state of it or whatever it was/is. you are limiting it or putting it in buckets eastern or western.

If you're a Hindu, the Guru isn't in you, but is you and everything. Atman/Paratman Siva/Paramashiva Brahman/Paramabrahman

Is enlightenment real? Yes... What is enlightenment? Find a TRUE Guru/Archarya, not one of the million fakes out there, one whom belongs to a true living lineage and ask them.

I laugh alot at this and so does my preceptor. People think that "enlightened"(God i hate that word), scratch that.. People think that Beings who abide in ultimate reality/abide in Self, are going to be some otherworldy folk. As long as one is in the body, none are perfect. What they really Know is that reality is perfect and full, but on the gross level, especially while dealing with the mind as the INSTRUMENT it is, and not identifying with it as your self,there will be flaws.

Take Ramana Maharishi for example, that great Soul couldn't even read or write. Guru's who abide in Self make mistakes, get angry, so on and so fourth. The differnce between them and us is that the anger is fleeting and they Know it. They aren't attached to it and have no ego to bruise.

The western world makes so many mistakes romanticizing it because it is still new to them. Enlightenment isn't something super natural or other worldy(well going beyond mind can seem that way), it is your Self, it is in the hrit, its all there... you just need to find it.

Jai Gurudev Markandeya Jai Abhinavagupta Om Namoh Bhagavate Nityanandaya

PS.. I make no claims to be anything, im just sharing a lil wisdom that has been passed down to me through my great lineage. Guru Om