Touts & Beggars

pundabee · Jul 29th, 2007, 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by shashank.aggarwal

..but I really doubt you being an Indian...and that is the reason you cannot understand my sensibilities on this issue !!

I have been in Tamil Nadu for a couple days; must have lost a whopping Rs. 50 from giving to beggars. Typically, they were people with no arms, no legs or no eyes, i.e. people who would have problems finding jobs in a competitive environment. These people depend on begging for survival, and, strangely, not only foreigners give money; their main source of income are donations from Indians. So, it is not only foreigners (like myself) who believe that (some) beggars should be supported.

The "logic" that only an Indian can understand India is faulty anyway. If this "logic" was to be applied to all aspects of life nothing could be done: good decision making is based on theory and analysis rather than personal experiences. And, as I said, it is dangerous to base decision making on personal experiences.

People who fear that their money, when giving to beggars, is falling into the pockets of a mafia should think about who is benefiting when they do their shopping. Are you sure you are not supporting arms industries, tax evaders, child labour, environmental pollution, the destructions of rain forests and wild life habitats etc.? Supporting such purposes through your shopping habits is much worse than the risk of supporting a localised mafia.

saajan_20 · Jul 29th, 2007, 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by steven_ber

Perhaps it's just me, or perhaps it's just the experiences I've had, but I feel I've changed over the years regarding beggars (and to a lesser extent, touts), I think I used to be a lot more accommodating than I am these days.

oceanfloater, imagine a hungry child (about 8-10 years old) with sorrowful eyes tugging at your clothes, now put a very young baby with no clothes into that child’s arms and place the child in a busy road dodging traffic....this is what you can face in India, your heart will tell you to give the child money, but I can assure you, after 3 or 4 times of giving money, you will have to deal with saying no to the child and the emotional hurt you will feel.

It's only a matter of time till you realise that when you give money, other children will race across busy roads to try to get money from you, everything inside you wants to protect the other child who's running in front of 2 taxis and a rickshaw to try to get to you, it's difficult to explain how it makes you feel inside, that child is only running across the road because they saw you giving money to another child, and all you were doing was trying to help, but wait, there's a third child racing across the road.......

The above scenario is mainly just in high-tourist areas and near large railway stations, but it does happen and it's incredibly difficult to deal with, the only way is to say no to the first child, you know, the 9 year old with the hungry sorrowful eyes and the baby in arms.

I guess I'm saying all this because India will be a huge shock after Thailand (I've not been to Bali), I never felt emotionally pressured by the beggars in Thailand, I never thought they were a big problem (and I've been to most tourist places in Thailand), and the touts were pussycats compared with the touts in India.

But you will have to deal with the beggars/touts in India the way all tourists have to, and it can be difficult, starting a thread here if the first step, but even with all the great advice you will get on indiamike, the emotional step is always the most difficult to overcome.

that s some deep thinking reflecting in ur write up !!!

machadinha · Jul 30th, 2007, 06:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by pundabee

People who fear that their money, when giving to beggars, is falling into the pockets of a mafia should think about who is benefiting when they do their shopping. Are you sure you are not supporting arms industries, tax evaders, child labour, environmental pollution, the destructions of rain forests and wild life habitats etc.? Supporting such purposes through your shopping habits is much worse than the risk of supporting a localised mafia.

It struck me also how the same concerns don't seem to stop the average man at least from visiting prostitutes (trafficking, rape & worse).

And indeed, have you ever stopped to think what percentage of your income goes to your boss, or to the state, or to some multinational, with all their respective dealings? And what business is it to you what that person you just gave something to does with it? Must they fall at your feet in gratitude & buy for it what seems the most needful to you? When is the last time you went without food for several days, or longer, let alone could afford some simple luxuries, lord forbid? Or worrying about your family that you can't support and whatnot, or not knowing how to make it to let alone through the next day?

As for the giving part, what I've observed among many Indians (and have noted here before) and struck me as the elegant way to handle it is carry some small change on you; hand this out (I'm talking paisas or a rupee here) to the first beggars you meet and not make a fuss of it nor accept any crap for it; until it's finished and that's what you did for the day. I suppose it's a functional system as long as enough people participate. Others, like Mrs. NH, may inconspicuously accomplish a lot altogether unseen.

Nick-H · Jul 30th, 2007, 10:48

I do agree that I'm not going to moralise about what the guy spend the money on. If its drink... so be it.

A slight rider to this is, though, is, like Mrs N said to me yesterday: 'don't give that man more than Rs.5: he'll get drunk and beat his wife'. Sadly, the two do very often go together here.

indiadreamer · Jul 30th, 2007, 12:38

I am not indian and I have not spent years in India, only months so of course my experience is extremely limited. That said, it only takes moments in India to come face to face with the struggle of the wild world of beggars in the streets. I have many stories like everyone else and mostly I just felt weary of all the begging by the time I left each summer. But I feel this way in the cities I live near in the US as well and I have tried many different ways to deal with them here at home too.

But one of my first days in Chennai, driving on the street I had a young boy come up to the window of my car begging. He was carrying a pitifully thin, dehydrated looking, lethargic baby missing an arm. The baby broke my heart but it was the look in the boy's eyes that would haunt me. They were hollow and rheumy old man's eyes. More children came up to our windows. We moved along before I could even think about giving any money.

Being there to give medical care I coincidentally ended up seeing these children again. I was able to see them several times and provide really basic, limited care. It was really hard because in some ways it was the kind of care you give your kids when they skin their knees or have a cold. The line of kids wanting even just a bandaid was very long. You know that is the way with kids everywhere but somehow it is multiplied by 1000 in intensity in India. I spent hours just giving mom care. I hated to leave them. In that moment they were just kids.

Jul 30th, 2007, 10:48	#64
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 27,792	I do agree that I'm not going to moralise about what the guy spend the money on. If its drink... so be it. A slight rider to this is, though, is, like Mrs N said to me yesterday: 'don't give that man more than Rs.5: he'll get drunk and beat his wife'. Sadly, the two do very often go together here. __________________ . Just one member of the IndiaMike Mod Team

Jul 30th, 2007, 12:38	#65
indiadreamer workin on my attitude Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Global Village......... ok, California Posts: 216	I am not indian and I have not spent years in India, only months so of course my experience is extremely limited. That said, it only takes moments in India to come face to face with the struggle of the wild world of beggars in the streets. I have many stories like everyone else and mostly I just felt weary of all the begging by the time I left each summer. But I feel this way in the cities I live near in the US as well and I have tried many different ways to deal with them here at home too. But one of my first days in Chennai, driving on the street I had a young boy come up to the window of my car begging. He was carrying a pitifully thin, dehydrated looking, lethargic baby missing an arm. The baby broke my heart but it was the look in the boy's eyes that would haunt me. They were hollow and rheumy old man's eyes. More children came up to our windows. We moved along before I could even think about giving any money. Being there to give medical care I coincidentally ended up seeing these children again. I was able to see them several times and provide really basic, limited care. It was really hard because in some ways it was the kind of care you give your kids when they skin their knees or have a cold. The line of kids wanting even just a bandaid was very long. You know that is the way with kids everywhere but somehow it is multiplied by 1000 in intensity in India. I spent hours just giving mom care. I hated to leave them. In that moment they were just kids. __________________ drmr

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