Sexual Harrassment

suricate

Almost all the people I know that are from Delhi/surroundings, U.P.,
Bihar, always comment about how unsafe it is for females in their
area. Just this morning I was talking to one of my friends
from Haryana (elsewhere now) who was commenting on how
unthinkable it was for his wife/sister/other female relatives
to go out on their own (or even with men) after dark in and
around Delhi/noida. I personally know of several women who
grew up scared in Bihar towns. A lady I know (who grew up in
the US) never felt comfortable going out and spending time
alone in Cubbon Park, Bangalore, a supposedly safe place
with respect to harrassment to women!

PeakXV

Those 10++ year old reruns are on here all the time as well. Time for some enterprising travellers to come up with some new material/footage.

To me it came across as sort of an impromptu & staged video op - set up primarily to discuss the local toddy swill. I don't think it was ever suggested that it was a good or wise thing to do for women (or men) ... the camera crew's presence was implicit & quite sure they only stayed there for the time it took to shoot the minute or so segment.

That said those lonely planet shows have many of those moments that can appear as slightly risky - depending on the travel experience, style & perspective that you are observing it from.

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What lies behind us and what lies ahead of us are tiny matters compared to what lives within us.
~ Oliver Wendell Holmes

Don't go to India ~ Pre-trip Warnings & Misconceptions?

Luci

I suppose its just a matter of common sense, whatever the location.

I am starting off in Delhi for a day, train to Agra and then driving to Pushkar, Jaisalmer and down to Mumbai (with cities/villages in between). No sleeper trains.

I will get noticed, its inevitible. Bright red and black hair, pale skin and blue eyes. And I will tell someone to piss off if they start trying to touch me.

Haylo

That's the attitude!

Nobody's saying India isn't worse than a lot of countries, but it's better than Morocco and Egypt, that's for sure!

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The world is mud-luscious and puddle-wonderful - E.E. Cummings, poet (1894-1962)

PeakXV

.... or the 'don't eff with me stinkeye' which when done with the proper body posture, facial expression cum muscle tension - will send them scurrying like the cockroaches that they are.

Matthew Morris

Don't agree with that, we were in Morocco for 2 weeks recently, the girls with us had absolutely no hassle. The girls wore wedding rings and it was very much respected.

Can't say the same thing for India.

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I have the wisdom of Buddha combined with the body of Peter Andre - oh...no..it's the other way round..

Aupmanyav

Your wish, it will be a loooong road journey, 2,500 kms. on Indian roads?

dillichaat

I can't say about Egypt and Morocco because I've never been there and if I can help it I'll never set foot there either. But I've seen many other countries all over the world both for holidays and professionally, including places like Iran, Afghanistan, Honduras, Colombia and nowhere have I or my wife experienced this type of harassment to the same extent as in Delhi. This is a major problem and it should be dealt with. As capt_mahajan said, it's not the laws that aren't there, it's that they're not enforced and that generally, no-one gives a toss if it's not their wife, sister or family that's being harassed. Couple that with lack of education of the perpetrators and a system that -imho as an outsider- is totally twisted as far as attitudes to boy/girl relationships are concerned and you get this type of situation.

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When the wise man points out the black hole, the fool looks at the finger.

Aupmanyav

The fact is that Indian democracy allows even the rapists to be elected (not guilty unless proved otherwise, British laws), they are the rulers. How can the society improve? Those who torment women may be relatives of politicians, police officials, or administrators (remember - the son of Orissa Deputy Police Chief convicted for rape in Rajasthan, Goa minister's son involved in rape and murder of British girl, and many others, Punjab minister's son involved in Chandigarh rape of a french girl).

dillichaat

The legal system in the UK seems to work though. (Am not that familiar with it because it's common law and I'm from a civil-law system country). Of course, there it's harder to a) bribe the cops so that they refuse to register a FIR b) block the judicial proceedings for years and years c) try to bribe the judge or d) if all else fails and you're finally convicted, pay someone else to to the hard time (obviously this will only work if you're local .

I'm not saying that in Europe it's all working perfectly and here it's a shambles but there definitely is room for improvement. Nobody in his right mind would think about bribing a cop in my country, chances are overwhelmingly that you'd be arrested on the spot. Here bribery seems to be the normal way to do things and that's not just the fault of those who accept bribes but also of those who offer them to cut corners and get things done. Everyone should think about that next time they feel the urge to pay 100 Rs so that a 500 Rs chalan for running a traffic light goes away.

I knew but am amazed that convicted felons/criminals can run for office here. Where I'm from you're normally stripped of your political rights after conviction for a felony/crime so that you can't run for office for a number of years. Also, it's impossible to be appointed as a civil servant if you were ever criminally convicted (except traffic violations).

capt_mahajan

As somebody who invariably gets involved when I see assault on women, may I say that while I can understand foreigners not wanting to get involved in any kind of fracas in a strange country, I find no excuse for Indians- especially males- who stand idly by when something like this is happening in front of them.

It is not a question of personal safety. Many of these incidents happen in places where one's life is not automatically in danger, or even likely to be.

It is a national disgrace, our meek acceptance of this crap.

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Outside the machine

PeakXV

It's ironic for a society that seemingly has more eyes than a pineapple at every given turn - that there is no or little intervention for this apparent abuse. If these were goondas wielding knives then ignoring might be accepted - but by all accounts it is done by snotty nosed teenagers who would probably go running home to their Mommy when stricken with the first tight slap. Therefore any nonintervention by able-bodied male observors must be perceived as some kind of cheap male chauvinist entertainment cum lack of backbone.

namaste_cat

Well-said Capt (and PeakXV)! It sure is a shame.

All it takes is for that one person to intervene, and then I've found others join in. Like with my daughter on our last visit this July, a guy walked by and suddenly grabbed her breasts while she was waiting near the baggage carousel at Delhi domestic airport. I was right behind her, and punched the guy. Thankfully a wonderful Indian gentleman dove in right behind me and hit him even harder. And another was ready to help if needed. By then someone had alerted the airport security guys, and they hauled the bad guy away.

Visiting India is getting to be a harder sell now as my 15 year old is maturing. I want to keep taking her there each year as long as I can so she understands her culture (ok half of it, but her American dad too is really desi in many ways so he too wants her to soak it all in while she can).

But these incidents on just about every visit have her father, all of us really, incredibly upset. He wonders why the good guys don't speak/stand up. I know he and our son would never hesitate to step in if needed. It is hard to see my daughter so traumatized...here in the U.S. she's just not used to it. Sad to say, I grew up with it, and even 30-40 years ago, it was wasn't a whole lot different than it is now.

Aupmanyav

That is the problem, the cases can go on for decades, police, judges, and witnesses can be influenced, bribed, threatened. Till then, the are not convicted criminals, can contest elections, can be elected, can be made ministers (Shibu Soren, a former minister in the department of coal in the last government being one such person).

Lori Steele

I've lived in India (Bangalore) 11 years and I still get men literally grabbing me, and have read and been told countless times that Indian women of all ages (I'm 52) get the exact same treatment if not worse. I've even had rape (and murder) verbally threatened more than once. Of course, I am extremely cautious as a result, and though I haven't been where you mention I wonder how much worse it can be unless you actually were raped by some monster there. You can't take it for granted that all will be well. However, don't let anyone tell you it's your fault if this happens to you. I dress incredibly conservatively (long dresses and sleeves and often a scarf), and actually get touched less often if I wear non-Indian clothing. I also avoid eye contact with unknown males, as it seems to incredibly encourage harrassment. However, it seems it's mostly 60-plus-year-old men doing it, and an Indian woman told me she too gets grabbed much more often by that age group; they seem to view all women as their property. My advice is be very aware and try to stay as far as possible from Indian males and avoid eye contact, or even better keep a male of your acquaintance between you and any unknown males. I've tried shouting but it didn't seem to work, though with over half a billion males in India I'm sure there are exceptions to my experience. Also, harrassment does not happen to me in very upscale hotels and restaurants, so I avoid the others so I can relax. And one last (very weird) tip -- if some man is literally following you around and really bugging you it seems to work if you turn around, actually do establish eye contact and glare at him, and then step directly behind him rather close and don't let him see you, following HIM even if he tries to turn around -- it seems to unnerve them -- BUT DON'T do that in a non-public less safe area, just get away from there as soon as possible.