Just Returned from India.....

Zoero · Feb 7th, 2006, 10:40

There are two ways of seeing the dirt and shit in India. One its dirty and unhealthy. Two, its real. More real than the scrubbed, disinfected and polished suburban world that is infecting (in my opinion) America. The dirt, the grime, the fact that trash mostly stays were it is thrown, and the openness of bodily functions provides me a powerful juxapostion. I would love for the ganges to be cleaner, I would love for less disease, I would rather not get the shits when I am in varanasi, but I don't want Varanasi to get scrubbed and polished.

I found the mention of cowshit in the original post interesting. I live in rural agrarian community that is quickly becoming less so. The post reminded me of the complaints that farmers are beginning to hear from new neighbors when they spread manure on fields. I think many of us westerners would rather avoid the realities of life and death. We shit, we die and we can't avoid it. I love India, and Varanasi in particular, because it doesn't hide those facts.

Sama · Feb 7th, 2006, 11:17

however there is always the middle ground. things don't have to be EITHER antiseptically clean OR disgustingly shitty. I personally don't want to use a toilet (western or otherwise) that has piles of somebody else's shit around it! give me a hole in the ground any day over that!

passingby · Feb 7th, 2006, 11:28

Quote:

There are two ways of seeing the dirt and shit in India. One its dirty and unhealthy. Two, its real. More real than the scrubbed, disinfected and polished suburban world that is infecting (in my opinion) America. The dirt, the grime, the fact that trash mostly stays were it is thrown, and the openness of bodily functions provides me a powerful juxapostion. I would love for the ganges to be cleaner, I would love for less disease, I would rather not get the shits when I am in varanasi, but I don't want Varanasi to get scrubbed and polished.

I found the mention of cowshit in the original post interesting. I live in rural agrarian community that is quickly becoming less so. The post reminded me of the complaints that farmers are beginning to hear from new neighbors when they spread manure on fields. I think many of us westerners would rather avoid the realities of life and death. We shit, we die and we can't avoid it. I love India, and Varanasi in particular, because it doesn't hide those facts.

please spear me the spiritual talk. if the sight of shit makes you think and become more spiritual, then good for you. frankly the sight and the smell of shit and pee just make me want to cover my mouth and nose and just think how dirty the people can be.
you know I have passed that stage when I see light and makes me want to become a better person just because I smell somebody elses shit. you know what I don't even like the smell of my own shit, so I don't need to smell somebody elses. There is a reason why they invented toilets, for people to use them. but apperantly some Indians do not like to use toilets. and that makes me very angry and gets me disgusted.

Nick-H · Feb 7th, 2006, 12:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoero

There are two ways of seeing the dirt and shit in India. One its dirty and unhealthy. Two, its real. More real than the scrubbed, disinfected and polished suburban world that is infecting (in my opinion) America.

Yes, it is real. So are the microbes and the death from disease that they cause. Go check out how may Indian babies die from diorhea (never did have a clue how to spell it...) each year.

As a piece of poetry, your post is great. As a piece of practicality it doesn't wash. Oh... no pun intended.

I agree about the hypersterilisation of the West. But that doesn't mean that living in sewage is good.

Zoero · Feb 7th, 2006, 19:12

Please don't misunderstand me. I agree with yogagirl that there is a middle ground. I also believe we need to work hard to clean up the real and dangerous conditions that exist for many in India. I am just concerned with the western trend of hiding all that isn't sterile and perfect. And please Passingby there was nothing in my post that suggested that seeing shit was a "spiritual" experience.

BlueRose · Feb 11th, 2006, 06:51

Oh how this thread brought back the sights and smells of India, and quite vividly too. Yes shit of every kind everywhere. This is why~ among other reasons ~that one must remove thier shoes before going in anywhere, but especially in a home or temple. And washable shoes are imperative. I am sorry but the shit is not just in Varanasi, I remember piles of it in Hampi too. And people crapping in the fields early in the morning as your bus whirls by and you are white knuckling it? gee I wonder sometimes why I want to go back. Between this thread and the food one....

But truly, I explain India to others who have not been there as: a place of extremes, you can see the most vile and disgusting things you ever imagined and also the most beautiful and wonderful. I guess you just have to take the good with the bad.
I told a friend about the piles of garbage everywhere and she said
"no, it cant be!" oh yes it can... they dont show all those piles of garbage and shit in advertising pics now do they?

sezegnin · Feb 11th, 2006, 18:39

Passingby, you have just contradicted the mediaeval French philosopher Michel de Montaigne who in "The Art of Conversatin" cites Erasmus as follows: 'As it was ingeniously and aptly put by the man who first said it: 'Stercus cuique suum bene olet.' (Everyone's shit smells good to himself.)'

And you know, French women don't get fat....

Quote:

Originally Posted by passingby

you know I have passed that stage when I see light and makes me want to become a better person just because I smell somebody elses shit. you know what I don't even like the smell of my own shit, so I don't need to smell somebody elses.

jivan · Feb 25th, 2006, 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by 70s-80s overlander

There has been plenty of evidence on this thread supporting pessimism -- and sadness, even anger. Here's one more note supporting optimism:

"BLESS is currently implementing a pilot project building ECOSAN toilets in selected villages. The best part is that they are child friendly. The toilets are raised above ground with two sealed receptacles that are alternately filled and emptied. This prevents effluent from human waste from seeping into the ground water, a burning issue in Tamil Nadu given the proximity of the water table from the soil. Once decomposed by bacteria, solid waste will provide organic manure for the soil. The liquid/urine flows to a small kitchen garden.Thus far, ECOSAN toilets planned or built with the support of CARE, the European Commission/ ACTED and Wherever The Need have met with a high level of community interest, especially from women. Bless is Now considering changing a number of the individual latrines to an ECOSAN design, an idea that is gaining momentum and support among donors and international NGOs."
http://www.disasterwatch.net/Best%20Practices/BLESS.htm

Would 've loved a better picture of the Bless Toilet as the one on the site doesn't really show the innovation properly. Need some more light source.

70s-80s overlander · Feb 25th, 2006, 21:36

If you type "EcoSan" and "India" into Google -- especially Google Images -- you will come up with a lot of information. It looks like this "European" technology is really taking off across Asia. Let's hope we all get to have some good experiences with EcoSan toilets on our next trips to India.

jivan · Feb 25th, 2006, 21:44

thanx. just looked into it.

Nick-H · Feb 25th, 2006, 23:08

I trod in my first cowpat today

Well.... I trod in my first Indian cowpat. As a children in rural England we used to delight in jumping with two (rubber-booted) feet right into the middle of them and watching them splay outwards. Occasionally splattering the legs of our friends

PeakXV · Feb 26th, 2006, 00:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick-H

I trod in my first cowpat today

Well.... I trod in my first Indian cowpat. As a children in rural England we used to delight in jumping with two (rubber-booted) feet right into the middle of them and watching them splay outwards. Occasionally splattering the legs of our friends

I did myself on my last visit .. it was inevitable that one day I would eventually step into the most lethal of all biodegradable Mine-fields

I went to Chor Bazaar - Sunday Morning Flea Market in old Delhi and was not exactly bright-eyed and bushy-tailed. My Taxi driver who was a good fair fellow wanted to tag along so I said sure! He saw it coming and tried to warn me but too late - I've never surfed before & probably never will but for a brief second I was surfing ol' Delhi style on a big breaker of Cow Doo-Doo!

Blind Blake · Aug 6th, 2006, 07:12

If you have been to India so often why are you so surprised this time by the "dirt". You should visit Singapore more- they are really on the ball about toilets- but you may well die of boredom. I respect your opinion and your right to it but as when someone asked Chuang Tzu "Where is Tao?" He replied "It's in the piss and the shit"
Ok so you are fastidious- thats your right, but the minute they turn India into something like Singapore I won't be going back.Incidentally I am not putting you down. You have a right to how you feel. I just don't feel the same way.

BigDave55 · Oct 15th, 2006, 07:32

I think V.S. Naipul said it best when describing the country of his heritage... The Turd World.

freenote · Oct 15th, 2006, 07:49

Thats it . i retreat from the world . Laila tove.

Feb 7th, 2006, 11:17	#62
Sama a pain in the asana Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: the India inside my heart Posts: 5,468	however there is always the middle ground. things don't have to be EITHER antiseptically clean OR disgustingly shitty. I personally don't want to use a toilet (western or otherwise) that has piles of somebody else's shit around it! give me a hole in the ground any day over that! __________________ *My India, 2005-2008* BE THE REVOLUTION

Feb 25th, 2006, 21:36	#69
70s-80s overlander 70s-80s overlander Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: chicago,il,usa Posts: 171	EcoSan "compost toilets" & "urine-diverting toilets" If you type "EcoSan" and "India" into Google -- especially Google Images -- you will come up with a lot of information. It looks like this "European" technology is really taking off across Asia. Let's hope we all get to have some good experiences with EcoSan toilets on our next trips to India.

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Feb 7th, 2006, 10:40	#61
Zoero Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New Hampshire, USA Posts: 14	There are two ways of seeing the dirt and shit in India. One its dirty and unhealthy. Two, its real. More real than the scrubbed, disinfected and polished suburban world that is infecting (in my opinion) America. The dirt, the grime, the fact that trash mostly stays were it is thrown, and the openness of bodily functions provides me a powerful juxapostion. I would love for the ganges to be cleaner, I would love for less disease, I would rather not get the shits when I am in varanasi, but I don't want Varanasi to get scrubbed and polished. I found the mention of cowshit in the original post interesting. I live in rural agrarian community that is quickly becoming less so. The post reminded me of the complaints that farmers are beginning to hear from new neighbors when they spread manure on fields. I think many of us westerners would rather avoid the realities of life and death. We shit, we die and we can't avoid it. I love India, and Varanasi in particular, because it doesn't hide those facts.

Feb 7th, 2006, 19:12	#65
Zoero Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New Hampshire, USA Posts: 14	Please don't misunderstand me. I agree with yogagirl that there is a middle ground. I also believe we need to work hard to clean up the real and dangerous conditions that exist for many in India. I am just concerned with the western trend of hiding all that isn't sterile and perfect. And please Passingby there was nothing in my post that suggested that seeing shit was a "spiritual" experience.

Feb 11th, 2006, 06:51	#66
BlueRose Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New Mexico Posts: 80	Oh how this thread brought back the sights and smells of India, and quite vividly too. Yes shit of every kind everywhere. This is why~ among other reasons ~that one must remove thier shoes before going in anywhere, but especially in a home or temple. And washable shoes are imperative. I am sorry but the shit is not just in Varanasi, I remember piles of it in Hampi too. And people crapping in the fields early in the morning as your bus whirls by and you are white knuckling it? gee I wonder sometimes why I want to go back. Between this thread and the food one.... But truly, I explain India to others who have not been there as: a place of extremes, you can see the most vile and disgusting things you ever imagined and also the most beautiful and wonderful. I guess you just have to take the good with the bad. I told a friend about the piles of garbage everywhere and she said "no, it cant be!" oh yes it can... they dont show all those piles of garbage and shit in advertising pics now do they?

Feb 25th, 2006, 21:44	#70
jivan Maha Guru Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Pune, India Posts: 836	thanx. just looked into it.

Feb 25th, 2006, 23:08	#71
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 27,790	I trod in my first cowpat today Well.... I trod in my first Indian cowpat. As a children in rural England we used to delight in jumping with two (rubber-booted) feet right into the middle of them and watching them splay outwards. Occasionally splattering the legs of our friends

Aug 6th, 2006, 07:12	#73
Blind Blake Ye elves of hills standing lakes and groves Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: adelaide Posts: 13	If you have been to India so often why are you so surprised this time by the "dirt". You should visit Singapore more- they are really on the ball about toilets- but you may well die of boredom. I respect your opinion and your right to it but as when someone asked Chuang Tzu "Where is Tao?" He replied "It's in the piss and the shit" Ok so you are fastidious- thats your right, but the minute they turn India into something like Singapore I won't be going back.Incidentally I am not putting you down. You have a right to how you feel. I just don't feel the same way.

Oct 15th, 2006, 07:32	#74
BigDave55 Universal Traveller Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 35	I think V.S. Naipul said it best when describing the country of his heritage... The Turd World.

Oct 15th, 2006, 07:49	#75
freenote senior member refused Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: cornwall UK Posts: 1,554	Thats it . i retreat from the world . Laila tove.

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