I've been asked to send 15,000 pounds (sterling) of diamonds to London!

Shiver me Timbers · Sep 26th, 2006, 01:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Satyagraha

The people i met intially were not shady, they were young indian men, and we enjoyed a drink and had some really good conversation. It was only once i arrived at their place that the shady characters started to appear.
It is a sad state of affairs as my idealism is being shattered about the Indian Hospitality which is so famous. I have encountered one genuine case of hospitality which was in Rajasthan and i can only hope that there will be more, and that situations like this don't stop me from visiting people's homes. I promise you it is not so easy to determine whether someone is genuine or not; not for me atleast. This is my first time travelling AND Alone AND to India (of all places). I am learning everything the hard way, but i am learning.

Satya.

Don't let this experience put you off. Remember where you are, in an extremely heavily touristed part of the country, and use your common sense.

In a few weeks time you could be in a small town/village, which sees almost no tourists - how you gonna react to an invite home then?

The general rule - the less tourists, the more genuine the welcome/hospitality/smiles. In places like Goa, parts of Rajasthan etc. it's only natural to be on your guard.

Hope you enjoy the rest of your trip!

Sensi · Sep 26th, 2006, 04:25

The archaic Registration of Foreigner Act, 1939, even has a clause—which is breached more than followed—that makes it necessary for a foreigner to report his passport and visa details to the 'hotel keeper' and the Foreigner Registration Officer (FRO).

If the foreigner is staying with his 'relatives', says the outdated law, it is the duty of that person to give all particulars of the foreigner to the nearest police station or the FRO, failing which the foreigner will be liable to a year in jail or up to Rs 1,000 in fine.

And if the foreigner wants to change his 'registered' address for a continuous period of two weeks, he has to keep the FRO informed with full particulars of his itinerary, places of visit and expected date of return. Any change of address also has to be updated on his permit.

What bugs foreigners most is that if that fall in love with India or with someone in India, getting a residency permit is not easy.

The authorities are clear that only those who have a valid employment visa and are legally employed or married to someone of the opposite sex can get a residency permit...
This condition has come in the way of a US citizen who has a same-sex partner and whose residency permit expired recently. She has lived in India for 12 years and worked for the better part of it.

But now, when she almost feels like a citizen, her lack of employment and 'marriage to an Indian male' has ruled out her residency permit. (Same sex couples are not legal in India)

A request for a six-month tourist visa was also not favoured by the authorities of the external affairs ministry in Delhi and she had to go back home to the United States and return with a 10-year tourist visa, which won't allow her to work.

And, she may not be alone in her situation. A few years back, another such girl got married to an Indian only to get a residency permit. Later, the couple got divorced.

A foreigner who did not want to be named said she rued the fact that India does not have the concept of green cards. Once a foreigner comes on a work permit he/she gets a residency for one year at a time for five years after which it is extended by another five years at a go, she says.

The registration office hands these foreigners a little booklet which is as precious for the foreigner as the visa and passport is.

"The residency permit allows us some facilities. For instance, it allows us same air fare as desis and allows us to send money back home," said a foreigner in Mumbai.

Foreigners also have to be on 24-hour alert. The law says that if any Registration Officer, magistrate or even a head constable makes a demand, the foreigner has to produce a proof of identity within 24 hours.

Lawyers say many foreigners who come to India as tourists land up doing jobs without work permits, often as actors or in beauty or cheesy internet chat room moderators.

machadinha · Sep 26th, 2006, 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick-H

The hotels copy your name and details from your passport.

I've never been in place that didn't do this diligently.

So, unless your name happens to be Mr A Cadabra....

Hm yes well, might depend on your class of hotel. I didn't mind the registering bit, just that it was a hassle getting your passport out of that well-concealed place all the time & revealing the same while you're at it. (Put it down to f* the system I ain't showing my papers. Hey we were young and goofy.) Sort of became a sport to avoid it. True enough, many places wouldn't fall for it and demanded to see the actual document.

Again, I'm not even sure if this was the law or not at the time. Also, thinking about this some more it is not at all impossible or indeed highly likely that this is customary in y'r average European hotel as well. If so it goes so unnoticed that it never struck me. And if so I guess it doesn't sit well with that "hey this is India & should be total freedom for me" kind of trip that some of us fall for.

Finally, the registering probably has more to do with local taxes and stuff than with the hopes of finding us back of course. Ah illusions & the ego, my friends.

dzibead · Sep 26th, 2006, 07:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sensi

What bugs foreigners most is that if that fall in love with India or with someone in India, getting a residency permit is not easy.

The authorities are clear that only those who have a valid employment visa and are legally employed or married to someone of the opposite sex can get a residency permit...
This condition has come in the way of a US citizen who has a same-sex partner and whose residency permit expired recently. She has lived in India for 12 years and worked for the better part of it.

But now, when she almost feels like a citizen, her lack of employment and 'marriage to an Indian male' has ruled out her residency permit. (Same sex couples are not legal in India)

A request for a six-month tourist visa was also not favoured by the authorities of the external affairs ministry in Delhi and she had to go back home to the United States and return with a 10-year tourist visa, which won't allow her to work.

...

A foreigner who did not want to be named said she rued the fact that India does not have the concept of green cards. Once a foreigner comes on a work permit he/she gets a residency for one year at a time for five years after which it is extended by another five years at a go, she says.

India is not unique in any of this. If you have an H1-B (emploment) visa and you lose the particular job that was the basis for your being issued the visa, you lose the visa. You aren't given a general "employment visa" that lets you enter the U.S. with freedom to move from job to job. It is possible to apply for a "green card" (resident alien status) through one's employment, but the process isn't necessarily easy and I don't think it's available for "run of the mill" jobs. Also, in order to get an immigration visa based on marriage, you have to be married to someone of the opposite sex. The federal government, which issues visas, does not recognize same-sex marriages (and most state governments don't either, but even if they did, it wouldn't matter because the Fed. Govt doesn't and it's in charge of immigration). Getting a "green card" in the U.S. is not easy. Someone in the position of the woman in the same-sex relationship you mentioned above would likely have the same problem in the U.S. that she had in India.

greenchutney · Sep 26th, 2006, 07:30

DZ...thanks

..

... a bit of diversion for this thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sensi

What bugs foreigners most is that if that fall in love with India or with someone in India, getting a residency permit is not easy.

I have fallen in love with with many countries in the world. I loved Barcelona. I cant even get a visit visa if i dont have a job/proof of healthcare, insurance/bank statement with certain amount of funds..and you should see the stack of papers..a fat file folder that i prepared just for a week visit to there. All for just a tourist visit on a Indian Passport. No question of residency.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sensi

But now, when she almost feels like a citizen, her lack of employment and 'marriage to an Indian male' has ruled out her residency permit. (Same sex couples are not legal in India)

If feelings were enough..then a lot of us would moving wherever. Same sex couples...which country out there in world is giving civil union/marriage permits/priviledges across borders for this..I would like to know?..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sensi

A foreigner who did not want to be named said she rued the fact that India does not have the concept of green cards. Once a foreigner comes on a work permit he/she gets a residency for one year at a time for five years after which it is extended by another five years at a go, she says.

you know how difficult is it to get a US Green Card?..Just go check the immigration.com forums and people stuck in beaurocracy and what not. and very strict qualification parameters. How many countries out there have this green card system?..and go look at the super-strict requirements they have for this......As far as I know Canada and Australia might be the only exceptions if we have to stretch the argument and their populations could match all of Bombay.

its state of the world we live in. india is not unique by any means sensi. foreigners can rue or bitch about whatever they want...they just have to look into the mirror if there is reciprocity from their govts for similar treatment to indian passport holders. yeah..while i like to think idealistically for open borders, i dont see that happening practically when there billion of us...its just the reality i must accept.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dzibead

India is not unique in any of this. If you have an H1-B (emploment) visa and you lose the particular job that was the basis for your being issued the visa, you lose the visa. You aren't given a general "employment visa" that lets you enter the U.S. with freedom to move from job to job

if you dont have a job or cannot find one within a certain interval after you are laid off/fired on a H1B visa, you must get out of the country. you can do H1 transfers between jobs but the jobs must be similar and there is monitoring on this and the transfer is not approved. the H1B as DZ says is only for certain categories and not for run of the mill categories.

robotvoice · Sep 26th, 2006, 08:10

i had a similar experience just before leaving india. the manager of a hotel where i stayed in kolkata asked me if i could bring an envelope to the u.s. and send it for an american tourist that was staying at his hotel.
i should add that i really trusted this man, in fact i had left some belongings with him, including a valuable cannon camera, to hold for me during my six month trip all of which were returned without a problem. but when he asked me this, my instinct was an unshakeable NO!
i asked him why she didn't just post the letter from india, and he said that it would be cheaper to send it in the states. Bah! what a load of sh--! what american tourist cant afford the couple of rupees to send a letter back home? no way, i wouldn't carry anything for anyone, but this was a particularly suspicious circumstance.

Nick-H · Sep 26th, 2006, 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sensi

The archaic Registration of Foreigner Act, 1939, even has a clause—which is breached more than followed—that makes it necessary for a foreigner to report his passport and visa details to the 'hotel keeper' and the Foreigner Registration Officer (FRO).

The hotelier is responsible for filling in the form. Although it seems from experiences here that this may be overlooked in budget accomodation, as I say I have always had to give the details in every hotel and guest house I have stayed in.

So it is not archaic at all.

There is no requirement whatsoever for a foreigner on a tourist visa to register at a police station or FRO. There is a requirement for foreigners on certain types of visa to register within 14 days of arrival although this often waived if the stay will be for less than 180 days: this will be indicated by a stamp on the visa.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sensi

Yes they do mr nick. Last year goa passed a law requiring tourists to register if staying more than 2 weeks. It's also law that the guesthouse must register you when you stay with anywhere.

So far you are the only person to have heard of this. If it is so, please give us the reference, link etc as requested. The laws I have mentioned are national laws, and apply to the whole of India with the exception of certain restricted areas which have tighter restrictions --- I haven't noticed Goa on the list!

machadinha · Sep 26th, 2006, 09:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick-H

Although it seems from experiences here that this may be overlooked in budget accomodation

No, no, not really. They just may be less adamant about seeing the actual passport. Which is a handy document to carry whilst travelling anyway so it's really a moot point. Just you have to take it out every couple of days -- *sigh* such inconvenience!

GoanCanuck · Sep 26th, 2006, 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenchutney

Same sex couples...which country out there in world is giving civil union/marriage permits/priviledges across borders for this..I would like to know?

Canada offers these privileges.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/sponsor...tml#sponsoring

greenchutney · Sep 26th, 2006, 14:50

thanks GC. i am looking at your link. it says only conjugal partnership is allowed as far this specific situation is concerned. the other two (same sex marriage, common-law) arent..since same sex marriages arent valid in india.

any lawyers here?..that definition of conjugal partnership sure is interestin...whats the fine print?..hats off to canada if not.

Nick-H · Sep 26th, 2006, 14:55

UK recognises 'civil partnership' (yes, that is same-sex) too.

India, of course, does not have same-sex relationships.

Oh, dear me, no... ... ...

greenchutney · Sep 26th, 2006, 14:59

UK does Nick..i think so does Denmark.. but I am curious how this pertains to immigration. Are same rights given to spouses of same sex couples...for immigration?

Nick-H · Sep 26th, 2006, 15:05

I took a quick look at the UK visas site before I posted.

It certainly seems to.

I think there would be an outrage is Brits were allowed to be gay ---but not foreigners!

kayozz · Oct 2nd, 2006, 03:55

....Same thing happened to us in Anjuna. me and my girlfriend were enjoying a quiet meal and we got approached by two really pleasant, young indian lads (one of them called himself Jay by the way...) and basically just got talking to us and sat with us and enjoyed a few drinks... They seemed very friendly and interesting and had a lot to say about things...

We thought no more of it, until we were at the nine bar having a great night, when we bumped into him and his mates again... He said he had his own disco and would be putting on a party that night! He said there'd be loads of other people there and that we'd be more than welcome. We'd also got talking to two cool German guys and I think they were invited too.

We hung out with him for an hour or so, sitting around his expensive car as he pumped out some really good tunes.

Well, stupidly (in hindsight at least), we were a bit drunk and thought 'why not!', so we jumped in his car and went for a drive to his apartment (where he had a disco area set up, all painted in UV colours) - but there was no sign of a party (or any other people)and we became instantly sober and worried.

He gave us drinks and was still very friendly and told us that he owned a jewellers and did we wanna make some easy money? He told us that it was safe and legal and that it was just a way of avoiding tax... So, he gave us a choice: To either travel to London or Australia! and carry a suitcase full of diamonds to a contact who would then give us our £15,000.... (right).

Needless to say, we both refused politely and gave our hints to go. In that time, four or five different people kept coming into the apartment and ignored us.... we felt a bit scared and really wanted to go.

I think he realised that we weren't going to fall for it and he actually drove us back to Anjuna.

Really sounds like it was the same people.

* I know how stupid it seemed, but at the time - we weren't thinking straight. But at least we're alive and can look back at our strange experiences....

machadinha · Oct 5th, 2006, 13:01

Funny thing is, Satyagraha never did call in again...

How you're doing man?

Oct 2nd, 2006, 03:55	#59
kayozz Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: England Posts: 83	same thing happened to us in anjuna ....Same thing happened to us in Anjuna. me and my girlfriend were enjoying a quiet meal and we got approached by two really pleasant, young indian lads (one of them called himself Jay by the way...) and basically just got talking to us and sat with us and enjoyed a few drinks... They seemed very friendly and interesting and had a lot to say about things... We thought no more of it, until we were at the nine bar having a great night, when we bumped into him and his mates again... He said he had his own disco and would be putting on a party that night! He said there'd be loads of other people there and that we'd be more than welcome. We'd also got talking to two cool German guys and I think they were invited too. We hung out with him for an hour or so, sitting around his expensive car as he pumped out some really good tunes. Well, stupidly (in hindsight at least), we were a bit drunk and thought 'why not!', so we jumped in his car and went for a drive to his apartment (where he had a disco area set up, all painted in UV colours) - but there was no sign of a party (or any other people)and we became instantly sober and worried. He gave us drinks and was still very friendly and told us that he owned a jewellers and did we wanna make some easy money? He told us that it was safe and legal and that it was just a way of avoiding tax... So, he gave us a choice: To either travel to London or Australia! and carry a suitcase full of diamonds to a contact who would then give us our £15,000.... (right). Needless to say, we both refused politely and gave our hints to go. In that time, four or five different people kept coming into the apartment and ignored us.... we felt a bit scared and really wanted to go. I think he realised that we weren't going to fall for it and he actually drove us back to Anjuna. Really sounds like it was the same people. * I know how stupid it seemed, but at the time - we weren't thinking straight. But at least we're alive and can look back at our strange experiences....

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Diamonds, Gold and Rings... Is India Considered Cheap?	pravie	Packing Tips for India travel	30	Sep 2nd, 2007 14:32
India asked to send ship to fetch Sri Lankan refugees	Sama	India Travel News and Commentary	1	May 29th, 2006 06:59
Dollars or Sterling?	jollygirl	Chai and Chat	7	May 11th, 2005 23:18
Dollars or Pounds Stirling?	crodge	Chai and Chat	8	Feb 10th, 2005 05:17
Pounds sterling/US Dollars?	jaz	Chai and Chat	14	Mar 3rd, 2004 03:02

Sep 26th, 2006, 04:25	#47
Sensi Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: in a bungalow Posts: 118	The archaic Registration of Foreigner Act, 1939, even has a clause—which is breached more than followed—that makes it necessary for a foreigner to report his passport and visa details to the 'hotel keeper' and the Foreigner Registration Officer (FRO). If the foreigner is staying with his 'relatives', says the outdated law, it is the duty of that person to give all particulars of the foreigner to the nearest police station or the FRO, failing which the foreigner will be liable to a year in jail or up to Rs 1,000 in fine. And if the foreigner wants to change his 'registered' address for a continuous period of two weeks, he has to keep the FRO informed with full particulars of his itinerary, places of visit and expected date of return. Any change of address also has to be updated on his permit. What bugs foreigners most is that if that fall in love with India or with someone in India, getting a residency permit is not easy. The authorities are clear that only those who have a valid employment visa and are legally employed or married to someone of the opposite sex can get a residency permit... This condition has come in the way of a US citizen who has a same-sex partner and whose residency permit expired recently. She has lived in India for 12 years and worked for the better part of it. But now, when she almost feels like a citizen, her lack of employment and 'marriage to an Indian male' has ruled out her residency permit. (Same sex couples are not legal in India) A request for a six-month tourist visa was also not favoured by the authorities of the external affairs ministry in Delhi and she had to go back home to the United States and return with a 10-year tourist visa, which won't allow her to work. And, she may not be alone in her situation. A few years back, another such girl got married to an Indian only to get a residency permit. Later, the couple got divorced. A foreigner who did not want to be named said she rued the fact that India does not have the concept of green cards. Once a foreigner comes on a work permit he/she gets a residency for one year at a time for five years after which it is extended by another five years at a go, she says. The registration office hands these foreigners a little booklet which is as precious for the foreigner as the visa and passport is. "The residency permit allows us some facilities. For instance, it allows us same air fare as desis and allows us to send money back home," said a foreigner in Mumbai. Foreigners also have to be on 24-hour alert. The law says that if any Registration Officer, magistrate or even a head constable makes a demand, the foreigner has to produce a proof of identity within 24 hours. Lawyers say many foreigners who come to India as tourists land up doing jobs without work permits, often as actors or in beauty or cheesy internet chat room moderators.

Sep 26th, 2006, 08:10	#51
robotvoice mikeaholic Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: california Posts: 1,171	i had a similar experience just before leaving india. the manager of a hotel where i stayed in kolkata asked me if i could bring an envelope to the u.s. and send it for an american tourist that was staying at his hotel. i should add that i really trusted this man, in fact i had left some belongings with him, including a valuable cannon camera, to hold for me during my six month trip all of which were returned without a problem. but when he asked me this, my instinct was an unshakeable NO! i asked him why she didn't just post the letter from india, and he said that it would be cheaper to send it in the states. Bah! what a load of sh--! what american tourist cant afford the couple of rupees to send a letter back home? no way, i wouldn't carry anything for anyone, but this was a particularly suspicious circumstance.

Sep 26th, 2006, 14:50	#55
greenchutney Account Closed Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: planet earth Posts: 1,578	thanks GC. i am looking at your link. it says only conjugal partnership is allowed as far this specific situation is concerned. the other two (same sex marriage, common-law) arent..since same sex marriages arent valid in india. any lawyers here?..that definition of conjugal partnership sure is interestin...whats the fine print?..hats off to canada if not.

Sep 26th, 2006, 14:55	#56
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 27,790	UK recognises 'civil partnership' (yes, that is same-sex) too. India, of course, does not have same-sex relationships. Oh, dear me, no... ... ...

Sep 26th, 2006, 14:59	#57
greenchutney Account Closed Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: planet earth Posts: 1,578	UK does Nick..i think so does Denmark.. but I am curious how this pertains to immigration. Are same rights given to spouses of same sex couples...for immigration?

Sep 26th, 2006, 15:05	#58
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 27,790	I took a quick look at the UK visas site before I posted. It certainly seems to. I think there would be an outrage is Brits were allowed to be gay ---but not foreigners!

Oct 5th, 2006, 13:01	#60
machadinha Not Your Guru Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: yörp Posts: 11,153	Funny thing is, Satyagraha never did call in again... How you're doing man?

User Name		Remember Me?
Password