Foreigners robbed in train

amogasiddhi

Here's my guide to making yer sack thief proof..... well as good as anyway. Oh and I have a Karrimor 50-70L Global travel sack not a top loading rucksack. It has an un-zippable 'day-sack' of about 15L. This cannot be secured to the main bag, a point which I consider to be a design flaw. However, ingenious me has found a way of packing my valuables into the day sack and all this easily fits into the main bag which, as you will see is all but bomb proof.

This means that the day sack is double lined and the zips are lockable. The main bag is also double lined (four thick, water proof linings) and it's infinitely lockable and securable. Read on.

1. I have small combination padlocks on every zip on my bag. The main zips have loops for the padlock to slide through before being fastened at their base. This prevents the zips from being drawn apart from eachother at the base of the zips. To further secure these zips, I have also another combination padlock on the tabs of the main zips at their very ends to prevent them from being moved at all, as they neatly feed through the attatchment loop where the shoulder strap would normally go. Anything short of a hacksaw would be futile.

2. I have combination padlocked the expansion gusset zips together, the lock and zips neatly tuck away into a nicely thought-out pocket for just that purpose.

3. Another entry point is in the boot section at the bottom of the bag. I have combination padlocked the two zips together and once again have fed them through the loop where the other end of the shoulder strap would normally attatch to the bag. This means that the lock has to be opened before passing it through the strap loop, before trying to open the bag at the bottom. If that does happen, I have opened the drawstring partitioner and I have packed in such a way that nothing is easily accessible apart from dirty washing.

4. Everything inside my bag is double-lined and double-bagged. The outer material of the bag is very thick and is double-skinned apart from the expansion gusset itself which is one skin thick and which at the moment is not being used and is safely secured as above with a combination padlock.

5. If you think that by securing zips you are also securing your bag, you are mistaken. The bag is only material which could be cut with a very, very sharp knife. I go by the premise that prevention is better than cure and though I have studied several martial arts some beyond senior gradings, I would not want to meet the person carrying such a knife as one, if not both of us, would most definitely and at the very least, be seriously injured. No time for discussion via a Hindi phrasebook when there's a knife in the equation. Apologies to you non-defensive types, it just isn't a matter of Karma for me.

6. Every fastening and tightening belt, though they simply have slide buckles which click together, has excess strapping incase you need to totally expand everything and bring a small village back with you. These belts I have wound around the buckles so that they would have to be unraveled first before trying to deal with two combination padlocked zips and a double lined sack and a double lined interior. It's a delay and i'll tell you why in a minute.

7. So that's the bag fastened to itself but that doesn't prevent it from being carried away. Securing your bag to something immovable is very wise indeed and I don't mean a cow. The bag I have selected for my journey has a very good back system which neatly zips away underneath a cover. The zips fasten together but I don't feel that this is necessary or you'd think I was being paranoid and the only thing accessible is the back system itself. The back of the bag is well reinforced so perhaps an angle grinder might do it but not much else. Tucked away behind the flat aluminium bars which support the back system is a coiled, plastic-coated, high tensile, steel cycle leash with two strong eyelets on the ends. From either side of the bag, these can be pulled out from their stowed position behind the support bars, taken around the bag and there's enough left to attatch to something else. This, when used, will have a bigger combination padlock than the zips which doubles as a lock for the inside of my hotel room door. Please, please don't use the same combination for every lock as if you leave one lock open while accessing your bag, someone could see the combination and simply apply it to your other locks. I know it sounds like a pain but after a few goes, it's easy to remember the numbers for each lock.

8. Okay the bag is locked up and locked down, so what if someone even tries to move the thing? For £3.00 in the gadget shop, I bought a little alarm which has, you guessed it, a combination lock and a steel, plastic coated cable. Now this little thing is designed around a 'rape alarm' so if the cable is cut, the 120dB alarm sounds and it ain't over yet. The device has a motion sensor, a relay contact, which no matter how softly it's tilted, will knock the Chappals off any thief. This device can also be used to secure a hotel door from the inside.

Now I suppose there are some of you who don't secure anything under the premise that it draws attention to the item. This may or may not work but I know what works for me. Why go through the hassle of dealing with your extortionate insurance company after talking to Indian Police? Secure it and keep it. If some patient thief really wants to know what's inside my bag and I haven't arrived or woken up yet, then I have done more than necessary to ensure minimal argument from my insurance company. I have photos of everything i'm taking, I have copies of every document i'm taking and my insurance policy is viewable 24hrs a day online with www.worldnomads.com. Receipts have been copied, tickets, passport, driver's license, TC's, vaccination record etc etc have all been copied in triplicate. One for home, one in my bag and one on me in my super-dooper body wallet.

I have resisted the mesh bag cage option as I think they draw too much attention to me and my property. Not only that but they weigh almost 4Kg!

All this safety stuff weighs a couple of hundred grams which is less than 1 litre of water, which weighs 1 kilo.

Insurance rarely comes up in discussion. I spent a while finding this company and someone recommended them to me so I prefer them. This company allows you to detail what you are taking and then they quote you on the value of the items you're taking rather than saying 'we'll give you £150 minus £75 excess for your £500 camera and anything else has to be claimed separately.' This is clearly nonsense and I'd suggest you think carefully before taking something with you that you have to think about 24/7.

I think that's it.

Moga

steven_ber

In India labour is cheap and plentiful, is buying a safe an option?

There will always be coolies around to carry the safe to/from the train and take it to a taxi, at you're hotel you could give the porters an extra tip for taking the safe to/from your room.

Would the small extra cost would be worth it for peace of mind?

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lyndy

Instead of a safe (which mind you, is an exceptional idea) I have sourced a armoured car complete with machine gun turret(s).

One requires an experienced driver and assistant, however one does not require a road.

All supplied, 5000 rupees per 24 hours. Cheap as chips considering the money I'm saving staying at budget hotels.

If you see such a vehicle driving on the road from Hampi to Goa, salute us please!

Over & out!

snowcrab

One of my landlords was so impressed by my not very expensive old camera that he went to the trouble of finding me a desk with lockable drawers and their keys to keep it in. I appreciated the thoughtfullness and kept my passport, extra money and other papers in there. I also knew the lady downstairs would be very interested in anyone other than me trying to get into my place. I think good relationships with people who live close by is your best security in India. Different on a train. Just carried anything I was worried about loosing in a little bag around my neck.

steven_ber

Sorry Moga, I meant to delete my joke reply to you're post, but forgot, my approach to luggage safety was not too far from yours on my first visit to India, but I was forever wanting something from my luggage and it was such a pain to unlock, search, then lock again, normally I'd be looking in the wrong section, so I'd then have to unlock the next section and so on.....

I couldn't disagree more, I think it's exactly the same on a train, the best security is the people in you're compartment/carriage.
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I believe that theft is seen as a much more serious crime in India than it is in England, A thief in India would rather be caught by the police and go to prison than be caught by the public and given a swift bit of 'justice'.

In England, if you stand up to a thief you're likely to be on you're own, others will look the other way (we'd be terrified to hurt the thief as we would get a longer prison term than him), it's not the same in India.

The time to be most vigilant is when you arrive at the station to board the train, the stations (& platforms) can be confusing and chaotic, thieves know how to take advantage of this, it's just the same when you're boarding the train, keep an eye on your luggage until the train has left the city, not just the train station.

Other than that, I believe the trains are very safe, I have only ever lost a bottle of water (and that may have rolled away).

Now I keep everything in the main section of my backpack, I have a small lock that is attached to the zip and a small, thin chain that goes through the lock and around the steel cable underneath the seat. (Passport etc. are always kept on me)


One thing I have noticed from reading Indian newspapers every day for the last 18 months is the following.

About once a week (used to be twice a week) a carriage is raided by a group of armed robbers, they have guns, they take everything of value, and resistance can be fatal, if these robbers are overpowered (as happens about 10% of the time), they will all be lynched by the passengers.

This happens mostly in Bihar and Uttar Pradesh, and mostly in 2nd class unreserved carriages, though sometimes in Sleeper class and it happened once in an air-conditioned carriage.

The Railway protection police now put an officer on most trains.

This kind of crime is highly unlikely to happen to a tourist, there are thousands of trains crossing this area, most with over 20 carriages, but if it ever does, just remember, it's only money.

isabel

I agree with you... and some people don't know even how to wear a money belt! I've seen several of them wearing it on their clothes! When I saw it the first time, I couldn't believe it!

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VIVE Y DEJA VIVIR

amogasiddhi

Perhaps I could be the travel safety mascot. I know, I know.

A friend has just returned and while he was in Bangalore, his bag was slashed while he was being jostled about in a crowd. It must have been a very sharp knife as it cut through his sack and he didn't know about it until the smaller sack inside his fell on the floor. They must have been so pissed off to find nothing inside his main bag other than another bag, which was full of dirty clothes. He never locks anything unless he's on a bus or train.
He did put it all into perspective for me as this is the first time it's ever happened to him on countless trips. Still, it doesn't matter to anyone else but me so i'll start out and see how things develop. A lesson well worth learning.

steven_ber

Moga, reply to this thread when you get back from India, it will be interesting to see how you get along for three months.

Regarding you're other thread, time will slow down once you get to India, it will take a couple of weeks to get out of the 'I'm on holiday' feeling, then things will really slow up, but sadly, it will still all be over before you know it, then the long count down till your next trip will begin.

I've just had confirmation that I can't go at the begining of April, it will now be mid-June before I can go, as I'm not to interested in mountains I think I'm gonna be a little hot.

sadhuji

it is not only foreigners but locals also who get robbed in trains - only sound advice is to take all necessarey precautions, carry money in a number of locations (preferebly on your person!) and be careful not to take any eatables offered by strangers. they may be laced with drugs to knock you out, maybe for a couple of hours to enable them to carry away your belongings.

jens

We felt quite safe on trains of all classes, especially ordinary. Our combination travel/trekking packs have small padlocks on the main compartment and we travel with a pretty crummy collection of clothes and accoutrements, basically nothing we wouldn't be ok losing. We bought silly looking chains and locks in Delhi but never used them. On our day time trains I think it would have been off-putting to chain our luggage up--not that you shouldn't do it, not at all, it just felt that way to me. On the night AC trains we shoved it under our seats, though I could see locking it too. Definitely there were a few local people who chained their luggage-- probably one on every ride, but the handful I saw were older men with suitcases, which chain quite simply. We were always travel-wise (and we are part American at that!), did not flaunt money etc.

We are cautious and 'casually' vigilant; only to the extent that people befriend us; over-the-line is the more vulnerable paranoid state. On the rare occasion that we were bothered or harassed on public transportation folks usually kindly spoke up for us. I actually felt safer on (not boarding or debarking) public transportation, with lots of eyes about then walking down long stretches of lonely road, or in busy sort of anonymous parts of some cities.

All my stuff sans valuables was taken once eons ago in New Zealand, so for me having crummy stuff that I don't care about and a tight grip on my passport and money source, with copies easily accessed, has always been the best defense (along with luck). This also allows me the attention to care for my far more important personal safety. We had few things taken in Argentina a few years ago. They broke into our room (the locked door of the highly LP esteemed hotel cleverly popped opened when pushed hard) as was clearly routine, and grabbed the top locked bag of my friends otherwise unlocked trekking sack. In the most disorganized traveller way, the locked top that they absconded with contained a huge amount of Tang (for the unfamiliar--a vile dehydrated orange colored drink we used trekking) and two rolls of TP--lucky bait.

I think once you've been through it you learn a bunch....of course armed robbery is NOT the same.

Karma Queen

why not?

steven_ber

Sometimes, someone will offer you food or drink that is laced with drugs to put you to sleep; they will then take your money.

I would say that you should remember that this can happen, and then forget about it, I would even argue - "it is very hard to refuse food from strangers", I have accepted food (& shared my own) with about 20 people I've met on trains, it is the Indian way of travelling, of making friends.

I started off refusing food; first time was a family, the look of confusion on their faces, me feeling guilty that I could assume the man (intent on drugging me) must have brought his children and parents with him.

I don't have time to list all the examples I could, but now I always accept food, your instinct will tell you straight away if anything is wrong.

An offer of food is an offer of friendship; some criminals abuse this (though I bet no member here knows anyone who has been drugged).

Another thing, when you accept food, you can then put your food on the table and the Indian family will help their selves (and expect you to help yourself to their food) without asking, this is just the Indian way, it's not impolite, it's just friendliness and acceptance.

Similarly, don't expect a 'thank you' when they accept some food that you offer, and even harder, don't say 'thank you' when accepting their food, it's hard to get used to, but that is the Indian way.

An Indian friend in London refused to bring me any food if I had said “thank you” the previous day, I soon learnt not to say it.

sadhuji

an employee of the organisation where i worked was moving on temporary duty to an airforce base to carry out some repair work on an aircrarft that was having minor damages. he was carrying a box containing special tools, material etc to undertake the repair work. when he failed to report for duty, the airforce base rang us up and we confirmed that the employee had left on time. then the police came on the scene. after a couple of days, the employee was located walking the streets in a totally different town wearing a vacant expression on his face. he was taken into custody and, based on some documents on his persons, the police found his identity and informed us.

it seems he was befriended in the train by some cheats who conked him out by giving him some sweets which contained drugs that induced sleep. they decamped with not only his money but the material required for repairs.

we had to send a second team.

Dino

The best dahl I've tasted in my life was on a train to Bikaneer.The guys who cooked it were from Gujarat.If you guys see this thread PLEASE post the recipe.I'm the Australian guy who had a couple of whiskies with you just after 9/11.I'll put a photo on.

I only remembered later (about two weeks later) that you may have been fiendish dacoits intent on robbing me instead of the nice friendly guys you appeared to be.Anyway,please ,please,please,post that recipe if you read this.

Dino

I didn't attach the photo because I guess I shouldn't put peoples faces on here without their permission first.