For goodness sake get a life!

#1 Feb 7th, 2004, 19:43
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  • adrian smith is offline
#1
By far the worst aspect of my visit to India has been the behaviour of many of my fellow travellers. Often rude and surly it's hard to believe they might have come here to enjoy themselves.

Like the girl complaining at the Internet cafe minimum charge of 10 rupees: "But I only want to send an email. Five minutes only!!"

Like the Israeli guy smoking in a no-smoking area: "This is India. It's only a sign"

The constant moaning and whinging at not getting luxury service when they're only willing to pay what equates to peanuts back home.

Get a life.
#2 Feb 7th, 2004, 20:10
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#2
I spent my first two months in India mainly with Indians so when I started travelling I was surprised how many tourists wore clothes I considered a bit innapropriate for the occasion. I know Goa is a different story but I wondered about the girls wearing tiny tops and shorts in Kerala, especially after getting plenty of attention from malayali guys.
Last edited by bindi; Feb 7th, 2004 at 22:05..
#3 Feb 7th, 2004, 21:36
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#3
Adrian
The worst people I have come accross are the Indians from the US and the UK. These guys treat the locals like crap and for some strange reason think they are superior.
Bill
Too Many Gandus, Too Few Bullets.
#4 Feb 8th, 2004, 18:19
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#4
Agree with all the above.

Ultimately, oldhippie's signature says it all !
Whoever said money can't buy happiness didn't know where to shop !
#5 Feb 8th, 2004, 22:03
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#5

re Indians with Indians

I notice a similarity between India and my country of birth. In both cases, goverment appears to have little respect for an individual. It spreads over to the population, and individuals end up having little respect for each other. Just an observation!

forgive me, Indians, I have only been here for two weeks. I may be totally wrong. In fact, I would be happy if someone points out that I am wrong.
#6 Feb 9th, 2004, 07:41
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#6
Volga,

Any commodity which is available in plenty always has scarce value. In India, people are available in plenty.

As for the Indian Government respecting its people, it does so every five years. You will soon witness the pitiable sight of white topis with hands in a "namaste", going around begging for votes !
#7 Feb 9th, 2004, 11:32
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#7
Reality isn't just one perspective but many. In this thread many sad truths have been laid out..
#8 Feb 9th, 2004, 13:19
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#8
The answer to the question is at the end (for the impatient readers!)

Scholars (not me) asked to themselves “Why was it that all civilizations began only at the river banks or the likes? ”
It is true that prehistoric men were living everywhere and still all the known civilizations had river as its nodal point.

For the ancient cavemen everyday life had been a battle, both for survival and food. He could not even sleep peacefully in the forest without fear of animal attack. They spent most of their time hunting or battling wild animals. No peaceful time at all.

Those ancient people lived by riverbanks invented agriculture! In fact agriculture was one of the earliest culture mankind invented (at least the name suggests so). Those people had enough peaceful time to think and ‘pass the time’. You think positive when you are peaceful. Their thinking led them to many inventions leading them to have better sophistications in terms of quality of life and culture.

Their society expanded with different professions and trades. Brewing alcohol was the first chemical industry. Prostitution was the first service profession to evolve! They invented trade, and etiquette evolved in dealing with ‘outsiders’ .The cavemen remained in the caves and invented only better battle tools and tact in hunting. All the interactions with the ‘outsiders’ were only battle! The cultures were drastically different; one appreciated life as an artistic triumph whereas the other looked at it as an aggressive conquest.

In modern society also both these ‘river men’ and ‘cavemen’ exist. This has got nothing to do with the type of profession or wealth or what ever. You will find one of the most peaceful (not the peace talking type, but peaceful to themselves!) races of people in India.

Yoga in India is not practiced as yoga in isolation. Many Indians don’t even realize that it’s in-distinguishingly embedded in their way of life. It has one of the gigantic societies where common people posses a philosophical blend of mind.The Indian patience probably came from this.

Alas. Nor there is shortage of the ‘cavemen’ also in this society. The wildest and aggressive. Probably the daily life battle created this breed.

The ‘notorious’ auto-rickshaw driver at Chennai caught me by surprise. “Sir, I’m asking 10 rupee extra because I need it, and you look affluent. If someone is in distress and need a ride, I’m a human being happy to offer it for free. It’s affordable for me ”
A confusing and complex piece of philosophy from the mouth of an ordinary taxi driver. I think the society has taught him this.

The only easy thing is that all these contradictions can be postulated by the classic ‘India paradox’ theory!
#9 Feb 9th, 2004, 17:51
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#9
To address the point made by the original poster I think the problem is that the guide books and sometimes fora like this give the impression that you have to bargain over every single item and service offered.

It's not something that many foreign visitors to India have any experience of doing, but some, feeling that every transaction has to be a battle of wills really get involved in the business of haggling non-stop.

I guess myself it is done to show that they are no pushover and are to be respected for their business acumen. Fair enough, if they are dealing in areas where this is expected, like souvenir or handicraft shops but the truth is that many businesses have fixed prices.

In your home country you wouldn't dream of arguing about the price of medicine or making an offer on the cost of a meal in a restaurant. The same applies in India. The important thing to know is when it is appropriate and inappropriate.

I would hope that first time visitors account for the most ridiculous attempts to shave prices like the example quoted by the OP above, and that hopefully they have found out before the end of their first visit that this is offensive to other travellers and Indians they are doing business with.
#10 Feb 9th, 2004, 19:10
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#10
to the original post/poster. I've seen foreign tourists flog rickshawwallahs for a small sum of what Rs.10...Rs. 20. I haven't come across many educated or reasonably well off indians do the same. Personally i learnt to bargain pretty late in life and even now i tend to get ripped off every once a while. Travellers reactions seem to become a mix of a bundle of suspicion-viciousness-stupidity-mental and emotional fatigue.
All this is not to say that indians are like this and foreigners like that, cause basically everyone is fine. I think its important to keep a balance and respect local people. We all tend to make jokes on the local people...I have done it..travelling in germany. But i remind myself to stop short of being snide/smug etc...
Ooops am going off topic. But reading a few of the off-topic replies confused me. Anyway Alan D put it well enough.
Finally mpop, u might be right to some extent but don't u think this is oversimplifying things AND Israelis DO NOT know how to bargain. They know how to be rude and offensive. If the reputation they have in india is any indication then it also brings into question the whole point of travelling. Anyway most israelis are on a different trip. There is no connection between this type of tourist and the local land/people. And if they are master bargainers than good luck to them. But i would rather be had once a while than behave like that in a foreign country. And i know that indians as a culture are not bargainers or wheeler-dealers. Travelling -Walking along tourist strips/routes exposes one to a different india than one that really maybe is....
And this talk about respect for fellow indians...doesn't this apply to mankind generally
#11 Feb 9th, 2004, 21:21
see yourself in others. then who can you harm?
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#11
what really gets me is the people who travel for a couple months to India (or whereever) and then proclaim "what Indian people are like" etc... out of their obviously infinite expertise.

I'm sorry if someone had a bad trip to India, but to state that "Indian people have no respect for each other" is both offensive and inaccurate.

#12 Feb 9th, 2004, 22:55
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Don't let it get to you. When I read comments like that, I realize what the poster is really saying is:
Based on my personal experiences, perceptions and, perhaps, hearsay <insert group here> are <insert adjectives here>.

For example, that's how I read the previous unflattering comment about Israelis. I take all this stuff with large grains of salt.
#13 Feb 10th, 2004, 07:59
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#13
I would guess that most Indiamikers being informed travellers will not have been the rude, arrogant and offensive individuals you describe Adrian.

But they are "individuals" and not "smokers" or "Israelis" or even "young people" - those generalisations are dangerous and unfair.

I think if more people were a little more thoughtful before doing and saying certain things in India then the reputation of travellers would be better and experiences would not be marred by individuals.

Personally I enjoyed your rant Adrian and the responses from Alan and beach and all and have therfore rated your post 5-star Adrian as it touches on something we all experience and can all try to improve in whatever way we can.

Finally, why didn't you just twat him?!!!!!
#14 Feb 10th, 2004, 09:30
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#14
I'm not from Australia -- twat means something different in the northern hemiphere. It's a noun, not a verb here. What does it mean down there? ;-)
#15 Feb 10th, 2004, 11:26
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#15
Quote:
Originally posted by rab
Finally, why didn't you just twat him?!!!!!
Believe me I was tempted!!

When I mentioned an Israeli I by no means intended to tar all people fo that country with the same brush. Indeed I met a delightful middle-aged couple from Israel who gave me their phone number and invited me to stay as their guest any time I was in thier country.

I guess what really annoys me is the way some travellers behave as if India existed for their benefit and they should attempt to expoit it as much as possible. I think they show no respect to Indian people and I really don't know how they can enjoy their trip with an attitude like that.

I try to take an attitude of give and take. Just because you have been the victim of a scam does not mean the whole of India is like that. And when you have paid $1500 for an air ticket what is a few rupees? I will not try to force Indians to accept as low a price as possible: I will pay what I think is a reasonable amount. It means much more to them than it does to me.

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